Improper upbringing responsible for the development of a Rapist-mind? - Page 3

Originally posted by: Forever-KA

The part where you add "inviting" is stretching your argument and the part which makes all of your posts irrelevant to the context of this topic. That statement is true if you are talking about society but I dont believe that a family discusses theses issues as invitations let alone acting in a manner where they would encourage son turning into a rapist. If my mother thinks that wearing short skirts, drinking, partying late night is not good behavior then thats her view. I dont think it means I should consider them as inviting or easy. This is where you guys loose me.

Stil stll..you can have your opinion.

When people say rape victims were "asking for it," what do you think that means? Were they literally saying "please rape me?" They were acting in ways that were interpreted as invitations to rape. Usually that has to do with clothes, assertiveness, confidence, etc. Characteristics that are seen as not womanly, chaste, moral, knowing one's place in the world.

How do you think misogyny operates in the world? It operates through double standards. It means men are taught to feel entitled to judge/consume a woman's appearance, but women are taught to live their lives around those expectations.

Also, I think the worst part about rape culture is how women have to explain that it's real. How the onus is upon women to prove that the world is a sexist and misogynistic place, and that our cultural attitudes towards women's choices are harmful.

I have already said that I agree with lots of points posted here. However in context of society. This is what this topic is about

Originally posted by: Forever-KA

I have already said that I agree with lots of points posted here. However in context of society. This is what this topic is about

I feel attitude of parents,improper upbringing and family issues lead to the development of a rapist mind because a person/child learns what he sees or listens...

Few friends hanging around. A girl comes in short skirt. They think okay she is inviting. Lets act. I get that.

Mother has brought up her son thinking that short dress is not appropriate. The son is brought up thinking such women are therefore easy and therefore he can act. I dont think this causal pathway makes sense. A family upbringing is not equal to what you face in society.

Is your main point that family is less important in socialization, compared to friends/outside social circle? I strongly disagree. The family is the most important site of social discipline and where we learn the majority of our social cues. That's not to say that we can't challenge our families, but it's important to recognize the extent of the family's influence.

Your other point seems to be that saying something is not appropriate is light-hearted and should be given a free pass. The point has been made that this "inappropriate" business is moralistic and strongly linked to how women are treated with double standards in ways that enable rape culture.

I think it's problematic to keep calling it "rapist mind." I know the thread started with that, but I challenge that notion. There isn't a "rapist attitude" out there. There are several. And many of them seem very innocent but are embedded in our day to day culture.

Originally posted by: --arti--

Is your main point that family is less important in socialization, compared to friends/outside social circle? I strongly disagree. The family is the most important site of social discipline and where we learn the majority of our social cues. That's not to say that we can't challenge our families, but it's important to recognize the extent of the family's influence.

Your other point seems to be that saying something is not appropriate is light-hearted and should be given a free pass. The point has been made that this "inappropriate" business is moralistic and strongly linked to how women are treated with double standards in ways that enable rape culture.

I think it's problematic to keep calling it "rapist mind." I know the thread started with that, but I challenge that notion. There isn't a "rapist attitude" out there. There are several. And many of them seem very innocent but are embedded in our day to day culture.

Originally posted by: Forever-KA

Few friends hanging around. A girl comes in short skirt. They think okay she is inviting. Lets act. I get that.

Mother has brought up her son thinking that short dress is not appropriate. The son is brought up thinking such women are therefore easy and therefore he can act. I dont think this causal pathway makes sense. A family upbringing is not equal to what you face in society.

I feel you are missing the gist.

Few friends hanging around. A girl comes in short skirt.

In such scenarios, someone raised to think a short skirt is inappropriate and signals loose women is more likely to be manipulated by peer pressure or other negative influences. They may sexually harass, rape or engage in s**t shaming.

Someone instilled with the notion that every woman deserves respect irrespective of what she wears is less likely to be manipulated by peer pressure or negative influences. They are conditioned to reason against such judgments.

Family upbringing is not what you face in society. Absolutely. Family upbringing is actually the vital key to how you react to society around you.

@KA: I think you're looking at one aspect in isolation instead of considering the big picture.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

As harsh as it sounds, yes, she is subliminally conditioning him to develop unhealthy attitudes to certain woman.

She is telling him that a short skirt is indeed titillating. She is telling him that it is the woman's responsibility not to wear short skirts. She may not be saying the girl deserves to be raped. However, she opens up her son to negative influences and misconceptions about women that may or may not lead top rape.

Instead she should use this to teach her son about respecting women. She should teach him that even though their family values modesty, that women still have the freedom of choice to dress how they please. She should remind him that a short skirt is not an invitation for anyone to leer, stare or pass comments. And no matter what he must always treat her with respect.

I have seen in most rape cases the rapist has no sense of guilt in him.He has an attitude that says"Yes women who wear short dresses or go out with male friends at night(Delhi rape case)deserve to be raped..."So from where do they develop such a wrong attitude?? In many Indian households parents are blind to their son's fault and give him blind support when he does something wrong..Parents can sense when their son develops a wrong attitude towards women..so why dont they try to stop it..

In lower section of our society ppl have the notion that women who work till late at nights or have male friends are not "Good" or are doing immodest filthy things...This attitude passes on to their children which makes them prone to wrong influence and misconceptions...

Originally posted by: souro

@KA: I think you're looking at one aspect in isolation instead of considering the big picture.

Taken in isolation, what exactly is the impact of a mother commenting on how bad short skirt (or the wearer) is, is debatable. However, in reality, it doesn't stop with that one comment, there are various other factors that build up and might condition someone to think that there are certain 'types' of girls with whom forcible sex is acceptable.

Take for example, the son hears her mother commenting on how bad girls wearing short skirts are. Then there is a rape and he hears the society in general comment about how the girl was 'asking for it' with her choice of clothes. He reads about politicians berating girls wearing short skirts. He watches on news some Ram Sena or XYZ sena attacking and molesting girls in a pub/ disco for wearing short skirts and being in a supposedly immoral place. All this builds up and shapes the son's thought that yes, molesting or forcibly having sex with these 'type' of girls is acceptable as they are anyways asking for it. So, it's not just the comment of his own mother (which is just one brick in the whole structure), but the comments and actions of the society in general that influences him. And the society is ultimately just a group of several such mothers and fathers, and they are shaping his thought process.

Exactly my point...

A mother commenting was just an example given by me.Even wrong attitude of Father towards mother or other women or the people he mixes with...everything plays a key role in shaping up his mind and thoughts and at the end of the day his thoughts make him act accordingly...

Family culture and upbringing is what determines how a person will react to the society around him.Improper upbringing or wrong attitudes that he is subjected to will only make him prone to wrong influences..