Reservation for Jats

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alina.b

@alina.b

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#11

I believe there shouldn't be any reservations at all! Instead there should be aids or scholarships for minority and people under the poverty line. Why should a dalit or a Muslim who is rich receive reservations? They are already succeeding. A person must work hard themselves to reach success. Reservations and such just prevent people from working harder. So there shouldn't be reservations at all.

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#12

Not a fan of reservations. Everything should be achieved by merit only.

That being said there are certain extremely poor communities that have the deck stacked against them. It is much harder for people from these communities to succeed for a variety of factors. We do need systems in place to uplift these people. I don't think reservation is the way. I think economic support at grass roots levels to remove obstacles these people face.

The challenges in India and elsewhere are not caste/race based but income based. I have seen filthy rich and powerful people from backward caste and minority backgrounds. I have seen poor Brahmins live in tenements and struggle to make ends meet.

Someone who is rich and powerful doesn't need reservations. Someone who comes from a poorer background with lack of access to facilities deserves some form of assistance irrespective of their caste.

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hindu4lyf

@hindu4lyf

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#13

Originally posted by: shweta2728
I believe there shouldn't be any reservations at all! Instead there should be aids or scholarships for minority and people under the poverty line. Why should a dalit or a Muslim who is rich receive reservations? They are already succeeding. A person must work hard themselves to reach success. Reservations and such just prevent people from working harder. So there shouldn't be reservations at all.

@bold: I like the idea but there's too many people living under the poverty line and fact is corruption is so high that the money meant for those living in poverty will either never reach them, or they will receive a small fraction of the amount or that money is likely to be used in everything but educating kids.

I can see both sides of the coin here and they both make sense. The person living under the poverty line scoring 55% has often done so in trying conditions, power cuts, no laptops/technology, possibly working (usually manual labour) at the same time. Compare that to the kid scoring 90% who has access to all those resources. (but has obviously worked extremely hard too) There are times when women or people of certain castes are severely under-represented and this in some ways acts as an incentive. As much as I would agree with RTH that it's important to get down to the root of the problem until the point where everyone is on a level playing field, I think it will probably take many years till that is accomplished.

Reservations are ridiculous in some cases though like the one mentioned above with rich Muslims/Dalits etc. There are flaws and loopholes in the system, the Madras HC verdict today of a Hindu becoming a Muslim and still getting BC status benefit is evidence of that. Absolute BS.

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BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#14

i totally agree with Souro's observations about ambedkar! People like him screwed up on the constitution and they screwed up on reservations. In fact our constitution was tailor-made to allow people like nehru gandhis to thrive, just what our country did not need. 25 to 30% votes,most of it from a community with vested interests, and they become PM!

on the topic of reservation, it should be instructive to look at the US given it's an affluent country that can afford to spend more on reservation/ welfare schemes than we can and see what happens there... There are private colleges where there's a subtle form of reservation- it's called attracting students from diverse backgrounds to provide a holistic collegiate experience. By and large, admissions is needs-blind, meaning students who are admitted have a reasonable chance of getting funds if they are accepted... In order to achieve their diversity targets, they do admit students from the red-neck yahoo states with lesser credentials but nothing as crazy as what happens in India. In US colleges, you cant be totally dumb and still get in (unless under a sports quota), even if you have the saddest hard-luck minority story as your background... In India, on the other hand, you have seats even in top ranked medical colleges go to idiots, something that generally wouldn't happen in the competitive for-profit private US colleges.

as for state colleges, again, the criteria is mostly merit-based. They discriminate against everyone equally if they happen to be out-of state... But if someone is a truly deserving student in-state, they'll never be priced out of education...

i think the reservations and all are just another way Indians tolerate mediocrity... It is also a system rife for people to make money or otherwise defeat the system, eg. pay someone to get the required SC/ ST certificate. Wherever we look, there's a system to help politicians or bureaucrats make money, another being the absurd concept of giving MPS crores a year as development funds. Great concept but that's how we end up with cronies of politicians getting rich...

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Padfoot_Prongs

@Padfoot_Prongs

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#15

😆.

it's a bad debate as everyone here is opposing reservation. Chances of reservation being removed from Indian System are minimal or zero. There is more chance of increment in the % plus number of caste in the list.

BTW Caste census has one purpose what i have read- % of reservation for Scs and STs will be increased if their numbers are found more.

Screw the Indian Politics. I don't know on how many level we have reservation. first recruitment then posting then promotion.

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Rini

@-bLEu98-

Inactive

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: souro

If he was not far sighted enough to see the consequences, do you really think he would have been able to remove the reservation system now? To me, he was a short sighted, narrow minded person, driven by hatred towards upper caste Hindus (who ironically helped him to climb up the ladder), who just copy pasted parts from constitutions of various countries. He had no creativity of his own.

If anybody was short-sighted and narrow minded it was Gandhi and not Ambedkar. Although Gandhi did the whole temple entry movement with the dalits, he still insisted on division of labour based on caste. How broad-minded is that?

Ambedkar was never full of hatred while he has seen a lot of hatred himself. I wonder in which history books do you read this stuff? Upper caste Hindus helped Ambedkar climb up the ladder!

Ambedkar did everything by himself and he had the dalits beside him. Ambedkar was a man far more broad-minded for his times. His proposed changes to the Hindu code bill which sought gender equality was not accepted by these very upper caste Hindus in the parliament following which he resigned.

Sadly our history books only document him as the person who drafted the constitution and never once about the social reforms he tried to bring in.

Edited by -bLEu98- - 11 years ago

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Rini

@-bLEu98-

Inactive

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#17

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum
i totally agree with Souro's observations about ambedkar! People like him screwed up on the constitution and they screwed up on reservations. In fact our constitution was tailor-made to allow people like nehru gandhis to thrive, just what our country did not need. 25 to 30% votes,most of it from a community with vested interests, and they become PM!

Which community is that? 😕 Nehru and Gandhi are both upper castes.

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Rini

@-bLEu98-

Inactive

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#18

Reservation is a necessity in India for dalits and not upper castes, certainly not so.

There was a time when I used to think reservation is unfair, being an upper caste Hindu myself, I had to put in a lot of hard work to clear any entrance test. Even I believed that it's not equality and assessment should based on merit etc.

But it's after I went to university my perspective changed.

I realised why reservation is still a necessity in India. I know how difficult it is for general category students to clear an all-India exam, it took me a lot to get a in good university. But I'd still say reservation is required. Because our pains are nothing before the stigma the dalits have faced for ages and still do.

While I do agree there are some affluent people belonging to lower castes who don't really need it, there are many, many dalits who badly need reservation. There are people who come from remote villages, places where nobody has gone to high school ever, for those people attending a university is a very big deal. Much bigger than you and me, internet savvy people. And they cannot do it without the quota, because they don't get privileges that we do. Their forefathers didn't get the privileges that our forefathers did. Dalits were prohibited from getting any education at all and it was considered a brahmin's forte only, while the dalits served the brahmins.

And although all upper castes may not be rich, they have education and yes they have the social superiority over the others, which the dalits don't.

When a dalit boy comes to big university from a village, his first thought is to go back to his village and educate the kids there. I've seen it.

While for me, I'd only probably go to a bigger city and do a job to earn money. But I don't need that degree as desperately as he does.

And most importantly, our notion of reservation is extremely misconstrued. More than a quota or a benefit, it is acknowledgment of the humiliation, the exploitation the dalits have faced at the hands of the upper castes for several hundred years and still do. (eg: the UP rape cases. yes it is caste violence) And no reservation will take away that shame. Don't know when will India acknowledge caste atrocities. It's just sad!

Edited by -bLEu98- - 11 years ago

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souro

@souro

Alumni

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#19

Originally posted by: -bLEu98-

If anybody was short-sighted and narrow minded it was Gandhi and not Ambedkar. Although Gandhi did the whole temple entry movement with the dalits, he still insisted on division of labour based on caste. How broad-minded is that?
Ambedkar was never full of hatred while he has seen a lot of hatred himself. I wonder in which history books do you read this stuff? Upper caste Hindus helped Ambedkar climb up the ladder!
Ambedkar did everything by himself and he had the dalits beside him. Ambedkar was a man far more broad-minded for his times. His proposed changes to the Hindu code bill which sought gender equality was not accepted by these very upper caste Hindus in the parliament following which he resigned.
Sadly our history books only document him as the person who drafted the constitution and never once about the social reforms he tried to bring in.

Who awarded the scholarship to him for his studies abroad? Did the dalits do that?

Who reposed faith in him to draft the Indian constitution? The dalits? Although I'll say that faith was misplaced, going by the current constitution we are burdened with.

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Rini

@-bLEu98-

Inactive

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#20

Originally posted by: souro
Who awarded the scholarship to him for his studies abroad? Did the dalits do that?
Who reposed faith in him to draft the Indian constitution? The dalits? Although I'll say that faith was misplaced, going by the current constitution we are burdened with.

He got a scholarship. He was prolific student.

And the dalits were never in the decision making position in Indian politics. 😊 it's always the upper castes.

and our constitution isn't a burden, our opportunistic legislators are. Our constitution is as flexible as it could get.