Exploitation of employee or blackmail of employer? (Khobragade case) - Page 5

If Devyani Khobragade made $4120/mo per sources, then she made $49,440 a year. Some sources are claiming she made $100,000 a year, which is a whopping sum for a government officer. Usually that is for very high ranking officers and entry level ambassadors.

You can compare the $49,440/year with the US FSO pay scales here http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/205552.pdf . You will see that her pay is not only comparable but equivalent to what a mid to high ranking official would make. While this is not comparable to private firms in New York, her salary is actually "well to do" and quite "upper middle class". Considering that diplomatic officials have free or subsidized housing, it is way more than enough to hire a housemaid at higher than minimum wage. So the speculation that even she is underpaid is baseless.

So her need to bring in a maid from India and file her salary as $4500.00/mo is extremely suspicious.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150546.pdf

US State departments booklet for diplomatic rights and duties. Page 12 and 13 explain erroneous assumptions about immunity and why Ms. Khobagrade's actions were not covered by immunity. USA did not violate Vienna convention.

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Hades

Lets not discuss diplomacy because like the word it would be your perception against mine. No fair games. I stated and the whole argument is around the clause which is ironclad in Vienna Convention that any diplomat even with consular duties can seek immunity. Also check the clause about treating a diplomat irrespective of his crimes or standardized procedures. But ofcourse US has full right to interpret it as it can. We will see how the court would hold the argument.

Agree US should defend every citizen who is stranded in another country , but it can spare the judging smirks about Indian govt/ stands.

Quoting your own figure she is making $4400.00/mo , also taking your figure by law she is to pay her employee $4,500/mo . How in the world is that possible, were the US authorities so lax to observe that with the mentioned salary of employer she was not in a position to pay the due charges to her maid. Again the numbers used are all yours?

I or the govt has not declared her innocent nor is her crime being shunned.

She cannot apply for exemption otherwise I am sure she is smart enough to take that easier route. India is kept out of these exemptions. These are given on country basis not on individual.

So you see right now you can confidently say that there is no another diplomat from other country who is not violating these visa conditions. Look up China plz!

Would you elaborate how India erred in diplomacy reciprocity, and I am sorry I don't buy the argument that India's action were based on first response or the negotiations were not explored. Nor do believe US foreign affairs didn't anticipate this reaction.

My example of US mission for Osama in Pakistan was not war related, because the former nation has bestowed friendliest relationship with Pak , it was an alley not an opponent. Diplomatic intrusion was made.

Yes , this will be a very interesting verdict and might change the way nations view Vienna Convention considering all it's clauses will be up for individualistic interpretations.

- I just posted the state departments booklet for diplomats. Per the US interpretation, there is no violation of Vienna Convention. Per my understanding A100 training for US diplomats also cautions that most actions outside consular duty are not covered by immunity especially acts that are blatantly criminal in local laws. India has been milking popular misunderstanding of diplomatic immunity.

- I used numbers that have been cited. As Mister. K said we don't know her actual salary. Some sources claimed it to be $100,000. We don't know what the visa application included. Per my understanding applications only ask your salary expectations and living arrangements, not your employers. It is mere speculation that USA had full information to catch the fraud then and there.

- I'm sure there are other fraudulent diplomats and civilians out there. But it is speculation that USA is willfully ignoring them to pick on India.

- USA did not single out an India. USA did not violate Vienna convention (per their interpretation). Due process of law was followed. India's reaction was unwarranted, especially threats against US diplomats.

- Alliance treaties between USA and Pakistan are still a separate issue than Vienna convention. This was a military alliance. As such a military jurisdiction rather than diplomatic jurisdiction applies. In this specific case only - USA was misinformed by Pakistani allies and took matters of killing a terrorist in their own hands. Both parties were wrong in some extents. But we are deviating from the specific issue at hand.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Yes. Under IPC 377 India has complete rights to arrest diplomats and foreign visitors who are gay. However, considering that IPC 377 has just been reinstated they should give notice to the embassies to allow time for change in staff. Also it should be across the board for all nations who allow gay marriages or domestic partnership. Because again I reiterate, this was not an action against "India" but action against a criminal "individual" .

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Ok hades ,

Thankyou for clarifying that it was US interpretation. Because the Vienna 1961/1963 Convens. Latter 4 Consular Rels. Art41(1) says "grave crimes"& Art41(3) still mandates "due respect" while acting.

Salary : Let me tell you whatever salary you have projected is too magnified. For a quote I tweeted KC Singh, ex diplomat who was posted in her position once : ccom,airfare&medical- GOI. Food-employer! Subtract fromNY minimum wage i.e. $1800,what's rest? Khobragade gave $600 in hand.maid gets free accom,food, medical,airfare for leave. NY Attorney wrongly charged using employer's salary. Civil services are not the wall streeters of India.

And 3 days before her arrest, the employees husband and child were flown to NY by US authorities.

India is rightfully defending and fighting for her immunity according to their interpretation.

To those who have been following the relationship closely since May will realize the shift since the new power alignment in Afghanistan. Not speculating but just saying these behavior on both sides has far deeper meaning than an employer Vs employee issue.

Per USA there was no disrespect. Respect and rights were followed per due process. USA's claims will have to be tested in a court of law. If USA's interpretation applied - USA did no wrong and owes no apology. If Vienna convention was violated - USA was 100% in the wrong and owes apology. (but it wasn't personal).

Devyani Khobragade's actual salary is speculation at this point. But the popular source states $4000 something/mo which is well to do.

IMO - India escalated to threats and retaliations before negotiations which is unfair. If Indians believe retaliation and threats is a fair way to negotiate release, so be it.

I wouldn't read something to sinister in the case. India is still a major ally for USA. But some fears of Chinese influence maybe warranted.

I just wanted to clarify one thing. My contention in this argument is that USA followed standard protocol. That is it upheld the local law, complied t with Vienna convention per their interpretation and did not intend to single out or discriminate.

That being said I do not agree with US standard protocol. I'm against strip and cavity searches unless it is a drug/illicit materials/contraband charge. I think strip searches for each and every criminal doesn't have due cause and shouldn't be standard due process. I have issues with standard protocol of airport security measures, counter terrorism and other measures as well.