Exploitation of employee or blackmail of employer? (Khobragade case) - Page 22

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Depending upon which school of economics you champion, the news which evoked this particular reaction is either appalling or has no moral implication. For instance, you could view it as a voluntary sale of the laborer's time and effort or you could view it as wage slavery where the laborer has no bargaining power. Further discussions would deviate us from the main topic but suffice it to say, if you really would like to know where I stand in case deliberations on those subjects open up, I would say I support utilitarianism.

Specific to the issue that was raised, US maintains that prevailing local rates were paid. If local laws were broken, they should be absolutely be liable.

The way see it, in Devyani's case there is an attempt to enforce the law in letter but not in spirit. Meanwhile, the dispute regarding the controversial figure of $ 4500/- being the employers or employee's salary mentioned in the visa form is pending . Its absurd to think that any employer would promise to pay her employee a salary equal to what she herself was being paid!

So, lets take a look at the minimum wages law.

Every law has a rationale behind it. I assume that the rationale behind having a Minimum wages law is to protect the person who is getting a wage, to ensure that they make enough to have a decent quality of life and decent standard of living.

Let us examine what constitutes a decent standard of living. A nice place to live? Adequate nutritional intake? Enough money to take care of your needs? And your family's? Reasonable working hours? USD 9.75 an hour is supposed to achieve this. But USD 9.75 is not an absolute figure which can achieve this. Also, it varies in different parts of the same country and in some countries, this can be achieved with far less.

The minimum wage figure is always relative to the circumstances of the person getting the wages. To illustrate, under the US federal law the hourly minimum wage for employees, who are in a position to be tipped, is much less (USD 2.13 per hour) than an employee who is not tipped (USD 7.25 per hour). The reason is that it is assumed that the person who is tipped, will be able to make up the difference through tips.

Taking another example -the au pair' program sponsored by the US state department. The United States au pair program offers qualified young people (age 18-26) the opportunity to live and study in the U.S. for one or two years in exchange for providing up to 45 hours of childcare per week. Au pairs are provided private lodging facilities, meals, remuneration tied to the minimum wage (USD 195.75 per week). Dividing USD 195.75 by 45 hours we do not get USD 9.75 per hour but USD 4.35 !!!

However, in New York, Devyani was bound by the contract to pay Sangeeta 9.75 USD per hour. Devyani was reported to be paying part of this in Indian rupees (Rs 30,000/-) by way of bank deposit to meet Sangeeta's family's needs in India [Sangeeta's husband though unemployed , resides in own two bedroom apartment in South Delhi(supposed to be a posh area) with two college going children] . The payment of other part (after deducting Rs 30,000) was made in the US to Sangeeta directly in dollars, with signed receipts at times. Devyani is said to have fulfilled both these financial obligations, in India and in the US.

Supposing Devyani had hired Sangeeta as local help as per law she would be paid no more than USD 9.75 per hour. She would not be obliged to give her a place to stay, food, medical expenses, mobile phone, utilities or any thing else. Just USD 9.75 an hour. That works out to about USD 1560. Calculating the cost of living (rent, utilities, commuting, groceries, others) in New York it is doubtful if Sangeeta would have been able to send any money back home?

Whereas under current arrangement between Devyani and Sangeeta, she had been able to send expensive gifts to her family back home on several occasions through their visitors. The goal that a minimum wage law tried to achieve seems to have been more than met.

Anything immoral, unjust, unfair, exploitative in the arrangement? ...Apparently not.

Illegal? ... Remains to be seen as it would depend on the attorneys legal interpretations.

The law can sometimes be an ass and be taken to assinine levels by some people! Miscarriage of justice is possible while trying to carry out legal requirements in letter in disregard to its spirit !

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

Hey, other than Tiger Woods, what kind of idiot pays 4500 dollars a month for a nanny?

The kind that drafts two different contracts, one for the visa office and another for the employee, and assumes no one would be any wiser.

Equally important, apart than Bharara, what idiot would believe that one should earn that kind of money being a nanny? 😆

Likely, those imbeciles who imagine Bharara to be in the business of believing what a worker should or shouldn't earn.

Most people in America don't earn that kind of income after decent degrees. They are happy flipping burgers 12 hours a day for a whole lot less.

I believe the median and mean income levels of Americans, as well as the GDP Per Capita figures paint a different picture but let not facts stop you from trolling.

Bharara is scamming people here if he tells us that he believes the 4500 dollars was in order. He should be the one getting tried for misleading folks.😉

He won't be tried unless you file a lawsuit, just as you won't win the lottery unless you buy a ticket.

IMO it's so clearly a case of the form being interpreted incorrectly that the case should be dropped...

I believe they will drop the case as soon as the defense makes as persuasive an argument as you made right here.

On this point, i bet a lot of people dont know how to fill out any form properly.

Speaking from experience?

Take the forms they have when you're landing in a country. I still don't get whether they are referring to outbound travel or to inbound.

Ah, thanks for answering my previous question.

But that does not make people criminals...

It doesn't. As long as they can get around the pesky task of proving that forms were filled erroneously with no fraud in mind. The double contract is however throwing a monkey wrench into their game plan.

Originally posted by: LovelyPlanet

Other side is not a rosy picture either, several unemployed/undereducated people who would be happy to do odd jobs at a lower rate don't get any work. Govts (especially in UK) levy high taxes to a few who are employed and all the money goes into providing benefits to these unemployed people. Tax money which could have been used for several useful things is wasted like this.

In Asia, all poor people are able to find some work at whatever rate and everyone work hard to contribute to economy.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Most people in America don't earn that kind of income after decent degrees. They are happy flipping burgers 12 hours a day for a whole lot less.

I believe the median and mean income levels of Americans, as well as the GDP Per Capita figures paint a different picture but let not facts stop you from trolling.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

Now you were saying what about facts?

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

You said most people in America are happy flipping burgers for a lot less. Again, your words. First off, i could outright win that argument by merely contesting the generality supposed there in that statement. I didn't. I pointed out to you that it is not a lot less, and it is definitely not most Americans, by quoting the GDP per capita of $51K. As you can see, $51K is not a lot less than $54K unless you are disputing the definition of GDP PPP Per Capita, or worse, are of the opinion that GDP PPP Per Capita is somehow inapplicable to "most" Americans? Which is it?

Burger flippers, assuming they make minimum wages, make $8 per hour times 10 hours a day times 30 days a month which comes to $2400 per month. But the key here is that they are not "live-in" burger flippers. The nanny was.

Live-in nannies in NY cost $750 per week which comes to $3000 per month.
http://www.care.com/child-care-what-does-a-live-in-nanny-cost-p1017-q30359222.html

The above doesn't take into account work experience; it is reasonable to extrapolate the effects of tenure and experience to increased wages in any field.

I stand by what I said. The scoffing in your first post essentially has no merit.