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373577

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Posted: 12 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Why is it disdainful towards humans? After all we are all animals really. Of course humans have civilization, technology etc ' but that just makes us different not superior. That humans are better than the rest of life on earth is just a presumption we have about ourselves.

It is not that far off to compare children to cats or dogs. Irrespective of civilization, we're all mammals. There are actually many similarities in how we learn and socialize. Civilization has actually eroded our mammalian tendencies of loyalty and pack commitment. The fact that we consider legal obligation to "care" for providers is an illustration for that. So do we really deserve more respect than other animals who don't think in terms of self interest when it comes to loyalty to the pack and providers?

Unlike animals human beings have the ability to override their impulses and use their power of discretion . Thats an improvement in evolution I feel though its a different matter some people choose not to use that ability and prefer to behave like animals.

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373577

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Posted: 12 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: Prometeus

commonly most of the parents effort is to fulfill their ambitions through the child...I feel,real parents will give freedom...They will not impose themselves upon the child,they will not make you as a pet or they will not treat you as dog...their effort will be to help the child to be himself or to be herself and they can give directions ...they can give ideas..bt they not to impose their ideas. They are not to create slaves..when you love a person, you cannot condition him much... When you love a person, you give him freedom, you give him protection... When you love a person you would not like him to be just a carbon copy of yourself, you would like him to be a unique lovable individual... 😊

what is real or unreal Vinubhai 😃 They do what they think is the best for their child but can be wrong.

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Arti

@--arti--

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: .Chanchan.
Take care of their parents in their old age?

Parents are always expected to provide the best care and facilities to their children,and most of them do..! But is that kindness and care reciprocated by children, once they grow older? And in cases where children choose not to care for their elderly parents, should they be legally obliged to do so? Should a law be enforced to ensure parents are taken care of by children after adulthood.

Debate.

Legally, no. Not everyone has the resources or ability to care for elders, especially if they have special needs. Also legislative policies can't really address some of the complex issues seniors face in society. I think we need to pool together some resources to fund support programs for seniors that can actually work with families and incorporate familial support into institutional care.

But we are such a youth-obsessed, cheap (taxphobic) society that people have all kinds of resistance to the idea. They'll let corporations get away with all kinds of tax breaks and wreak all kinds of havoc on our planet for free. But the idea of our taxes going towards collective welfare is so offensive to some people. It's a sad reflection on the state of things. I think a society's health and values is measured by how we care for those who are the most vulnerable - seniors, those with mental illnesses and so on.

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#24

I like to see a society in which sons and daughters take care of their parents. But will the law do the needful to take care of the parents? I very much doubt that. Afterall how is a family and society built? And what is really important in a family? In any family, what is important is caring, compassion, gentleness, tenderness and understanding. We do find at times, sons and daughters are not taking care of their parents. Why does this happen? The sons and daughters are not mature enough and not able to make their decisions based on understanding themselves and others. There are times, parents (especially mother) aggravate the life of theitr son by telling bad about the son''s wife. Why? The mom is insecure and she carries a false belief that the son's wife will drive her out of the house and starve her. And so the mom also scolds the son and speaks harshly. The son finds himself in a quandary on what to do. How could things become better in this home? If this son has understanding that his mom behaves this way because of fear and insecurity and if the son could ignore what his mom says and at the same time take care of the mom in whatever way he knows and his wife also supports him, life will be better for him. And if his mom is the understanding person, she would accomodate both the son and the daughter-in-law. Thus a family works when each person is understanding, gentle and tender on oneself and others. Each adult can set an example for this to others and that is how society is built. And definitely not with laws. Because laws could be misused very easily

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#25

@Arti, You say, ' I think a society's health and values is measured by how we care for those who are the most vulnerable - seniors, those with mental illnesses and so on.'

But this is what I find. The health and the values of the family as well as society is measured by how much each person is caring, compassionate, gentle, tender and understanding towards oneself and the others. The others include family members and those in the society. How can these qualities be fostered in anyone? Parents have to build these qualities in children when they are very young and train them to be gentle, tender, understanding and loving to others. If the parents abuse the children, beat them a lot, ridicule them and never trust them, the children would grow up with a lot of confusion and this confusion will be surely seen when the children get married when they become adults. These children when they become adults, could be easily manipulated by their husband/wife or in-laws. And one way the manipulation could result is in abandoning the parents. There are also homes in which parents are partial towards one son or daughter and allow one sibling to abuse the other. How could the abused offspring find when he/she becomes adult? When these things happen in a family, it is called dysfunctional family.

This type of situation does not happen when there is adeuate amount of caring, comapssion, gentleness and tenderness and understanding within a person. If the parents could foster these qualities in children, they can be assured the childten would take care of them when they are old. These qualities are more important. Pampering children with toys without attending to them doesn't help. The real quality of children becoming healthy comes up when parents understand them but not indulge them. Even as parents have to be harsh on children there has to be understanding in part of parents.

An interesting way how a young man can be confused: A father because he didn't want to take care of his son just gave away Kavacha and Kundala to the son when the son was born. What did the son do when the son became adult and was a confused person?

Edited by maha2us - 12 years ago

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Arti

@--arti--

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: maha2us
@Arti, You say, ' I think a society's health and values is measured by how we care for those who are the most vulnerable - seniors, those with mental illnesses and so on.'

But this is what I find. The health and the values of the family as well as society is measured by how much each person is caring, compassionate, gentle, tender and understanding towards oneself and the others. The others include family members and those in the society. How can these qualities be fostered in anyone? Parents have to build these qualities in children when they are very young and train them to be gentle, tender, understanding and loving to others. If the parents abuse the children, beat them a lot, ridicule them and never trust them, the children would grow up with a lot of confusion and this confusion will be surely seen when the children get married when they become adults. These children when they become adults, could be easily manipulated by their husband/wife or in-laws. And one way the manipulation could result is in abandoning the parents. There are also homes in which parents are partial towards one son or daughter and allow one sibling to abuse the other. How could the abused offspring find when he/she becomes adult? When these things happen in a family, it is called dysfunctional family.

This type of situation does not happen when there is adeuate amount of caring, comapssion, gentleness and tenderness and understanding within a person. If the parents could foster these qualities in children, they can be assured the childten would take care of them when they are old. These qualities are more important. Pampering children with toys without attending to them doesn't help. The real quality of children becoming healthy comes up when parents understand them but not indulge them. Even as parents have to be harsh on children there has to be understanding in part of parents.

An interesting way how a young man can be confused: A father because he didn't want to take care of his son just gave away Kavacha and Kundala to the son when the son was born. What did the son do when the son became adult and was a confused person?

I know what you mean and I don't disagree. My point was simply that not everyone is equipped to take care of their parents. It could be because they simply don't have the resources, maybe the working adults in the family have to work full-time or two jobs to make ends meet and can't care for someone who needs more support. Kids can't really take on the responsibility of caring for elders. I've had to do that and it brings up all kinds of issues that you aren't equipped to handle. Even adults aren't equipped to handle them. And the alternative - leaving seniors home alone with little social activity can be emotionally destabilizing for them.

But as you say, families are also really complex and can be dysfunctional. Yeah, the ideal family should have values of love and compassion and understanding. But let's face it, most family members treat each other quite poorly. Sometimes senility seems to bring out the worst qualities in a person. I've witnessed this up close. You have elders sometimes who can treat their daughters-in-law or daughters worse than their sons. Or they might be stuck in a cycle of abusive family behaviour where there's no trust or respect. So if an elder is being emotionally abusive or putting pressures on their children that they can't actually handle, they shouldn't have to endure that kind of thing. It's an unhealthy environment for everyone, including children.

I'm just suggesting that outside of ideal situations, the only long-term solution that makes sense is to create safe alternatives for the care of seniors as a form of tax-funded social welfare. We all pay to create some high quality resources that everyone can use. That could be home care or it could be care in a long-term home. But something with high standards of care, ability for seniors to socialize with others and partake in some physical and mental activities if they're able to, etc. For various reasons, families are not always in a position to provide those things.

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#27

If there are children who are ill equipped to look after their parents we also have parents who are ill equipped to look after their children. With both parents working, looking after their childrens educational, emotional and health needs could be a daunting task that not every parent is able to shoulder effectively. So should looking after the family children and elders be taken over by the State? In a country like India where the data shows that only 2.77% of its 1.21 billion population pay personal income tax is that even feasible for any govt.?

Let me quote what the TM posted –

Originally posted by: .Chanchan.

Parents are always expected to provide the best care and facilities to their children,and most of them do..! But is that kindness and care reciprocated by children, once they grow older? And in cases where children choose not to care for their elderly parents, should they be legally obliged to do so? Should a law be enforced to ensure parents are taken care of by children after adulthood.

It was about kindness and care being reciprocated by the children and about them choosing not to do so. It is understood that the court cannot enforce a person to carry out something beyond their means and also that the elderly parents are not put under the care of their children against the parents wishes. While there may be no way to force someone to be kind and caring the courts can at least ensure that the children provide financial support to elderly parents should they require it. If there can be legal provisions to provide alimony and share of property upon divorce to healthy young women and perhaps also to men why should there not be some legal provisions for financial support to needy elderly parents, who mostly take care of their childrens every need to the best of their capacity whatever be the difficulties faced.

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#28

Arti, What you say is a good point. It is a good suggestion when you say a tax-funded social welfare could be made by Govt: for taking care of the seniors. The only thing which is never acceptable for me is to bring law in this situation and make legal imposition. The point is law could not bring compassion or love. The judges don't try to understand the good reasons of why the son/daughter behaves in a certain way. Nobody likes when someone induces guilt in that person. Already one sensitive issue which is rocking the country is estranged wives slapping false cases against the innocent husbands just to satisfy their greed.

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Frigate

@Frigate

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#29

Legally, no. Taking care of parents should stem from a sense of moral responsibility, not forced! Anything forced, usually does not have the desired effect; esp. because this deals with human interaction.

Frankly, there are parents that are also mean to their children, even though legally, they are expected to "take care" of them.

It is best if everyone plans their old age; at least financially. Love cannot be bought, but at least basic comfort can be!

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-Aarya-

@-Aarya-

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#30

Originally posted by: .Chanchan.
Take care of their parents in their old age?

Parents are always expected to provide the best care and facilities to their children,and most of them do..! But is that kindness and care reciprocated by children, once they grow older? And in cases where children choose not to care for their elderly parents, should they be legally obliged to do so? Should a law be enforced to ensure parents are taken care of by children after adulthood.

Debate.

So what is the difference between parents taking care of children vs children taking care of their elderly parents?