The only thing that got into me (and consequently angered me to a great extent) was the assumption that those who compares two (or more) works of art (literature/novel in this case) haven't matured enough and needs some growing to do in order to see things in perspective. Obviously I don't subscribe to that thought, and actually, quite strongly and vehemently disagree with it. In fact I find it quite an un-classy remark to throw around. But given that we have already gone circles over that, I think it's better if we leave that out of here. However, there are a few more points I'd like to make that I couldn't yesterday due to time constraints. This is me speaking generally.
Literary debates are literary debates. They happen. They are not much different from religious debates, political debates, social debates, et al. If anything, I'd say literary debates are less serious because they are about fictional works. As for why these two works are almost always compared - it's because, despite all its differences, they have their share of similarities as well. For one thing, they both fall under the Young-Adult fantasy genre, even though one is more universal while the other is geared towards mostly teenage girls. Moreover, they both have become a phenomenon in modern time, and are among the most popular works of the last few decades, so it's not really surprising to see people putting them together, finding their pros and cons and merits and demerits. If it were some other books than HP and Twilight which became so immensely popular, and had somethings in common, then trust me, those books would have been compared too. I can distinctly remember that in my school, we were asked to write out views on the similarities and dissimilarities between Huckleberry Fin and Tom Sawyer as a part of Eng. lit. class. Obviously those two books have more in common than what HP and Twilight have - but the point remains that, so long art lives, they will always be compared with one another, no matter how nonsensical the comparison may come off as to us.
Anyway, I have posted my view on both the series in my very first post, so I need not repeat myself again, but I will repost my views in a nutshell here just to keep things in perspective. Both Rowling and Meyer have weaknesses that they need to overcome. Keep it in mind that this is merely my opinion that I am stating here. I claim no responsibilities for this comment as it is not a fact. I, however, will try my best to give logic and reasoning that I see fit to support my viewpoint.
First let's start with Rowling, shall we? In her case, that has to be her chaotic plotting, especially in her earlier books and the last installment. She uses convenient plot devices - notably the dues-ex-machina - to keep her story moving. This is the most notable in her last installment, where things just happened to happen - like some lucky little coincidences that are solely meaningless and have no chance of occurring in an ordinary situation - at the right moment in the right order and in the right place. Baring Prisoner of Azkaban, her plotting has never been anything spectacular, but the concluding one-third of Deathly Hallows was a complete and utter let-down even by her standard - something she obviously did in a moment of rush and hurry so as to make a quick end, rather than actually having everything plotted out from the beginning. Obviously she planned part of the series, but the last book honestly doesn't look pre-planned at all. It's like she brought things out of thin air at the last moment to make things make sense, even though they didn't. The middle books in the series flowed quite well though. In her defense, Harry Potter is a character-driven series, so the character interaction and psychological exploration of them somehow helps her to hide her faults - her scattered plotting in this case.
She also needed a proper editor as the series progressed. I think, her editors let her do as she wished when Harry Potter became huge, and it shows in her work. Even though Order of the Phoenix is my favorite installment in the series, I would not even think of denying that over 200 pages from the book could have easily been cut-out without hampering its plot and characterization in any way. The lack of proper editing in the latter books, and the reduced quality of writing in the last installment, makes the series loose a part of its charm it had in the beginning - especially for younger or reluctant readers who aren't into reading "big books".
Also, I think her characterization somewhat deteriorated as the series progressed. I am mainly fussed over how she depicted Ron - from Chamber of Secrets and up until Deathly Hallows at least. I am not very fond of how his character "grew" throughout the book, and by that, I don't just mean him leaving Harry/Hermione, being jealous of Harry et al. It seemed to me that Rowling only used his character (from the second to the sixth book) for comical purposes. Sure, having a sense of humor is a great quality, but it shouldn't be the entire package. I liked how Ron was depicted in the first and last book - rash, hot-headed, insecure, at times jealous, but still very friendly, loyal, courageous, and helpful. Let's not forget that he was supposed to be strategically genius - as has been evidenced by his excellence in playing chess. I am afraid that after the first book, and up until the last book, we were missing that Ron.
Similarly, she also made Hermione into some sort of character Avatar as the series progressed. She (Hermione) also made her share of mistakes, but she was hardly ever penalized for her actions.
I think Harry's character is interesting, and she made him well-balanced for most parts. Dumbledore certainly is the most interesting and fascinating of all her creations.
Despite all her flaws, I will say her strengths as a writer outweigh her flaws. For instance, her plotting isn't the most complex and well-balanced, but most would hardly feel that - especially at the time of initial reading. Her storytelling ability is top notch, and you could escape out and get immersed into her world just by eyeing her sentences. Similarly, even though some of her characters lost their charm as the series progressed, most of them retained their classes. Her dialogues are also very sharp. The imagination, characters and themes explored in HP is nothing short of spectacular, and is deserving of all the hype and acclaim it received.
As a whole, I would say that, while she isn't the best author out there, she is a lot better than most best-selling authors there are.
In Meyer's case, I'm afraid I'll have to say that she has a lot more weaknesses to overcome. For one thing, the main two characters aren't very deep or complex. For a character-driven series that is geared towards YA's, I'm afraid they do not develop as much as one would expect. Some of their behaviors are outright abominable and loathsome. Let's start with Edward, shall we? Watching others sleep, treating your significant other as a breakable, fragile piece, etc isn't my definition of being a strong and sturdy lover. Similarly Bella is the epitome of an anti-heroine - she is almost everything that one shouldn't be - and given that these things are not dealt with at large, these aspects of the series evoke nausea after a while.
That being said, given that the series is generally a word-of-mouth phenomenon, it must have something in it even if it's not up to my taste. In fact I'd concede that despite my dislike of Meyer's writing she has some talents at the mechanics of writing / storytelling. I think she has vision, but she lacks the writing tools to make her imagination come alive. For one thing, I find most of the conversations between the main characters very dull, and considering that a large part of the series is devoted to character interaction between the main two or three characters, it's not really surprising to see why most would actually point that out over anything else. Meyer needs to work on her dialogues in order to create deeper and richer characters, and make the books flow properly.
Her prose also needs working. Once again, she has visions, but the way she describe things make half of them lose their charm. After a while, it becomes glaringly obvious that she is using the same words, phrases to describe a thing over and over again. Her incorrect use of the word "chagrin" is also irking.
Nevertheless, I do have hopes from her. Who knows, she (Meyer) might surprise me in the future. Like I said, I can see potential in her writing.
This is just my opinion. I don't claim to be infallible, so what I say doesn't necessarily have to be taken as the truth. I know I can be wrong in many regards. I am pretty sure you can have a different opinion than mine and that by no means mean that one of us is correct while the other isn't (And I am speaking generally when I made this post). In fact, the whole purpose of this debate was to have an idea about how others view the following works.
Asking others to NOT have a proper discussion that compares / contrasts / find similarities / differences between different works of lit. is nonsensical, because that totally defeats the purpose of a literary discussion/debate on the first place. There is nothing "immature" about it. Lots of learned critics have to critique (which involves comparisons) various works of art as a part of their job ' what should they do, just resign from their professions because it may offend a section of people? I don't know where this assumption is coming from that comparing different works of lit. = bashing one of them. This was, in fact, the main point that I was trying to put forth throughout this whole discussion. This has happened in the Twilight forum, and this has also occurred in the Harry Potter section. I don't want the same to happen here.
Finally, where is this assumption coming from that those who like HP like it because they are "into" wizards and magic? Just as it is wrong of me to assume that people who like Twilight do so because they are into vampires and werewolves, it is equally wrong of others to assume that people who like HP do so because they are into magic and wizards.
Edited by Beyond_the_Veil - 14 years ago
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