Why did God create us? And ask us to worship him? - Page 4

Originally posted by: angie.4u

And how does one determine if something exists in 'reality' , & which reality !

I don't think we do. We have all created our own realities and are living them - perhaps God is watching from up above and laughing at us. Maybe he is waiting for us to perfect our realities and then He will tell us what is really true. Or maybe He won't ...

I wrote quite a big reply directed at WA, but as always (this has happened in the past, especially when I direct my answers to her; heck, the first time I debated with Ajnu, my first two sets of answers/responses were lost!), I deleted it! 😡 Now, is there any curse that WA is using on me? 🤓

I think I won't be reading the whole thing now, being that once I start reading, I can't help responding back to them, which will come off as disadvantageous to me, as I need to head to bed. *shrugs*

WA, thank you for your response! 😳 [Okay, the last time I openly blushed was so long ago!].

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades

I wrote quite a big reply directed at WA, but as always (this has happened in the past, especially when I direct my answers to her; heck, the first time I debated with Ajnu, my first two sets of answers/responses were lost!), I deleted it! 😡 Now, is there any curse that WA is using on me? 🤓

I think I won't be reading the whole thing now, being that once I start reading, I can't help responding back to them, which will come off as disadvantageous to me, as I need to head to bed. *shrugs*

WA, thank you for your response! 😳 [Okay, the last time I openly blushed was so long ago!].

🤗 Awww, you are too awesome for me to send a curse your way. 😆 I'm sorry about that, you should start writing responses in a word document or something from now on! I've got into a habit of copying my response every few lines when I'm writing a long one ... since I am also cursed the same way!

G'night, Labib. Will wait for your response until tomorrow. :) I can already tell you're itching to disagree ... or perhaps you will surprise me this time around. Or maybe, I've surprised you in some way ... since you are blushing again! 😆

Originally posted by: *Woh Ajnabee*

Labib, thanks for the topic! I've been waiting for you to get back into action. 🤗

I did not vote ... I have a mixed response, here we go:

I do not think that God decided to create man one day because he was bored and nothing better to do. I think the creation of man is very well thought-out and a result of wise planning and execution. I also don't believe man was created all of a sudden and in one go. There was a process involved ... first, there was nothing (a stage of non-existence), then there was creation of matter, then from that matter, man was created (a stage of existence), and gradually man evolved to the present form of humankind (a stage of awareness).

Moving onto why we were created, I will first come forward and say that we don't know. That is the real answer ... however, that does not mean that we cannot speculate and attempt to decipher why God created us in the first place. The first interpretation, and the most common one among "believers", is that God created us to worship him. To me, however, that idea does not seem plausible. In my mind, God is not a narcissist dictator who NEEDS us to worship him. In fact, by associating "need" with God, we are bestowing him with a characteristic associated with man. Man needs things, man wants things, but God is above that. He is more than that - that is why he is the Creator. In fact, this characteristic would imply that God craves recognition and worship from his creation, in order to signify his own importance or superiority. God is more than just the Creator who punishes anyone who dare not worship him.

If it were the case that God needed us to acknowledge him and to worship him, it would not make sense that God is hidden from us and does not come into view. It does not make sense that he would give us logic and reason if he only wanted us to blindly worship him. It also does not make sense that he would simply implant humans on this tiny planet called Earth (assuming we are the only life that exists out there) and leave the rest of the planets and the universe at large deserted.

That is why I think there is more to our existence than simply existing to acknowledge and worship God. Of course, now I'm sure you want to explain what I do believe rather than what I do not. But the truth is that its far easier to say what one does not believe than to put what one does believe into words. At least in my case, it is. I don't have a clear view on the existence of mankind. Not at all, in fact. But what I do know is that we are here for a reason greater than what we claim we're here for. To some extent, I do believe that God created us to know Him ---- but not by compulsion or fear, but through logic and reasoning. Maybe the physical world is a womb of our soul, and we are here to grow, to learn, to know, to decipher, to question ... perhaps God is preparing us for the "higher reality" that life after death where we will truly learn our purpose. Maybe this life will things put things into perspective for us before we enter the next life. Perhaps God wants to give us a chance to figure things out on our own, to use our own reasoning to attempt to understand our own purpose in life. Otherwise, I would think that God himself would come down and tell us why we were here. If God really was as much of a narcissist as we claim him to be, he would not have given us the power of reason and would have programmed us to believe and acknowledge everything he directly feeds us.

Sometimes, I think from a different angle and believe that maybe we overlook the smaller things - perhaps the purpose of life is to love. To give love, to be loved, to help others in need, to love humankind, to love God ... to spread love. Perhaps romanticism has got to my head, but I think God by all means encourages helping others, soothing others' pain, alleviating their burden, or simply bringing a smile to their face.

Of course, those are all a lot of maybe's, but I jot down here everything that I think - hence the lack of organization. I apologize if there were any discrepancies in the post. All of these thoughts are the pieces of the puzzle inside my head, I'm still trying to put them together to create a bigger picture.

You know I expected a post like this from you here. Firstly, I think you have been waiting for POH to start one of these topics. But more importantly, this is an area of interest.

To diverge from the topic if I may, I think this post reflects some elements of what POH would call 'change' in you. The writing style, the thought process, everything is you. However, where the thought process has reached is different. When I first interacted with you on IF, your notion of God was more 'static'. There was a lot you seemed to 'believe/accept' as true. You sounded more like a 'believer'. Recently, your notion of God appears more 'organic'. While the intrinsic belief is still there, your thought process now reflects one of 'questioning/learning'. You sound more like a 'learner', one who is still learning about, oneself, others, and existence as a whole. Consequently, a lot of your other notions, beliefs, concepts, morals have become more 'evolving/learning' rather than 'static/believing'.

Does that make sense?

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Take 4th option as a symbiosis of two entities existing concurrently, neither causing/creating the other but each dependent on the other.

Take 5th option as two entities where one entity has created the other.

That makes sense, thanks! But it also raises so many questions.

I've always believe God to be the Creator ... it is hard for me to then imagine a mutual relationship when God is the superior being.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

You know I expected a post like this from you here. Firstly, I think you have been waiting for POH to start one of these topics. But more importantly, this is an area of interest.

To diverge from the topic if I may, I think this post reflects some elements of what POH would call 'change' in you. The writing style, the thought process, everything is you. However, where the thought process has reached is different. When I first interacted with you on IF, your notion of God was more 'static'. There was a lot you seemed to 'believe/accept' as true. You sounded more like a 'believer'. Recently, your notion of God appears more 'organic'. While the intrinsic belief is still there, your thought process now reflects one of 'questioning/learning'. You sound more like a 'learner', one who is still learning about, oneself, others, and existence as a whole. Consequently, a lot of your other notions, beliefs, concepts, morals have become more 'evolving/learning' rather than 'static/believing'.

Does that make sense?

I really have been waiting for POH to come up with one of these topics, I've been itching for such a debate, actually. I even asked POH to think of something. :)

Yes, that does make sense. In fact, I agree with you. I was stupid back then, I would consider myself not less stupid now ... but rather that I acknowledge and recognize my stupidity. In fact, in some ways I embrace it because it encourages me to learn more. Make sense? 😆

The answer to "what" isn't enough anymore ... I need to know why and how. But one thing is for sure - I never supported blind faith then and I don't support it now. I have always firmly believed that one should be attempt to understand something rather than simply believe it. And that its alright if you don't understand something ... because chances are that people who do claim to understand are probably lying to themselves anyways.

Anyways ... you both are such sharp observers. 🤗 I hope these changes are for the better ....

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Take 4th option as a symbiosis of two entities existing concurrently, neither causing/creating the other but each dependent on the other.

labib asked us to presuppose.

in his own words: "why do you think He created us, and the rest of the universe?"

keeping that in mind, the 4th option states/asks that "if he hadn't created us, would he cease to exist?". the 5th option contradicts the presupposition by stating "he didn't create us, we created him".

if options are being given, the presupposition shouldn't be allowed. and vice-versa.

so, before plunging into a debate, i would ask labib

do you also want us to presuppose
a) that he created us and the rest of the universe?
b) that he "resides" in a different world?
c) that there is a purpose?
d) that he is powerful and supreme?
e) that the concepts of existence and non-existence apply to him?

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Take 4th option as a symbiosis of two entities existing concurrently, neither causing/creating the other but each dependent on the other.

Take 5th option as two entities where one entity has created the other.

Sometimes I can't help but think that Sarina has some form of telepathy power, and she (or he, whatever it is) has been secretly spying over my thought-process. 😆

Ajnu and Googly, without delving deep into it...

#4 - Implies that God exists. He is, however, incompetent without, say, a Heaven to hypothetically stay, and angles to hypothetically assist him during his hypothetical jobs. He is incompetent (or so it seems) without the cosmos, human beings, and various lifeforms that inhabit the earth, and also other distant planets (well, possibly). So, in this scenario, it is being assumed that a God requires us to keep on existing for his own existence, i.e. there is a positive connection between our existence and God's existence. Now why - we don't know that yet. It could be that we are extremely small but significant part of the supreme Being. Maybe not physically (and I'd rather hope not physically), but personally, I do believe that the whole universe (including lives) is connected to a supreme consciousness, that we can call God. Maybe spiritually, or through-souls, we ALL (we human beings, the universe, God) are inter-connected.

#5 - Implies that a God actually does not exist. He is a invention of the human mind, or rather, more accurately, the invention of a group of people. As such, the question had been reversed; instead of asking 'Why did God create us', it is being asked that 'Why did we create God' (the latter, whether true or not, is pretty easy to answer, btw).

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades

#5 - Implies that a God actually does not exist. He is a invention of the human mind, or rather, more accurately, the invention of a group of people. As such, the question had been reversed; instead of asking 'Why did God create us', it is asked that 'Why did we create God' (the latter, whether true or not, is pretty easy to answer, btw).

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades

Assuming there is a God (whether you believe in such an entity or not is irrelevant) - why do you think He created us, and the rest of the universe?

Pick one, sport.