Jaya CC#2 Members Only (Story so far - Pg 64)

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guenhwyvar

@guenhwyvar

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#71

Originally posted by: Urmila11
The verse is:

Shashthe cha twam tatha kaale Draupadyugamishyati

Now if we do sandhi vichched, then the last word can only be Draupadi + upagamishyati. Not Draupadi's sons, because that is a plural number and the verb for plural never becomes upagamishyati, it should have been upagamishyaNti for plural. Also, Draupadyupa or Draupadya does not mean 'Draupadi's children'. Children is represented by shna pratyaya and that should be Draupadeya. Draupadyugamishyati can only be spiltted as Draupadi + upagamishyati, because either splitting will not follow sandhi rules.
Now the meaning. Shashthe kaale = sixth part of time (before evening,as ashtam kaal or eighth part is the evening). And the very important word is upagamishyati. The meaning depends on this word now. I have checked all possible meanings of root verb 'upagam'. Here are they:

Allow, begin, attain, make choice of, occur, go near to, confess, enter any state, visit, suffer, happen, come towards, undergo, come upon, admit, present itself, arrive at, obtain, attack, agree to, undertake, reach, participate in, press hard upon, approach.

Now see, where is a hint of physical relationship or marriage? Krishna is just saying that Draupadi will come to meet you near evening time.

Hmm but what about the other words - "cha, tvaam, tathaa." Surely they can contribute to a change in the meaning.

Shasthe Kaale may mean sixth part of time, but Shasthe Kaale is not together in the verse. It's Shasthe cha twam tatha kaale.

It just doesn't make sense to me for Krishna to offer Draupadi in that specific manner at that specific moment, context wise. Krishna's actions and characteristics have never been about treating women like property. He married 16,100 kidnapped women of Narakasur just because they were "tainted" for being kidnapped.

Here is what I think (it's a new epiphany):

"Draupadi will come to meet you near evening time" as you translated can mean so many different things. So we have to look at the context to make sense of it, rather than look at it individually.

From the context, this is what I have pulled out-

Krishna is saying that a lot of people, kings and queens, will come to attend your coronation bringing with them lots of stuff. This will probably take place in the right before evening (depending on the equivalence of 1 Kala is, I would guess mid-afternoon?). Draupadi will also come at that time (indicating that Draupadi has forgiven Karna for her insult!). Dhaumya will do some rituals and Pandavas' family priest will do some more rituals.

I think the translators have dirty minds ... 😆😆

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#72

It's not just dirty minds, Shyam. Looks like the Author is trying to imply something else. When a person of his stature says something, people are bound to think it is true. This is just how all the additions or changes may have taken place over time.

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#73

3 things I have in mind for this -

1) G did offer her up. For whatever reason. I don't buy that it was just Panchali going to him indicating her forgiveness. When it specifically says Draupadi going to him in the evening, there is meaning implied.

2) It was an interpolation by later authors who tried to figure out how P would fit into the scheme of things, being married to the younger 5 brothers

These 2 are possibilties; of course I prefer #2. Because it just does not fit G's MO

If it was #1, whatever G's motive was, he had no business offering her up. No way. No how. If he knew Karna would refuse, he didn't need to include her. If he thought there was a possibility Karna could accept, he shouldn't have included her

3) What definitely did happen is that the Debroy translation used the 'intercourse' word which makes it much more crude than it actually was (if it happened). In fact as someone else said to me yesterday, compared to the words CE puts in G's mouth, what Karna said to her is nothing. When the Sanskrit version has nothing of the sort, I have to assume it is deliberate.

Edited by AnuMP - 10 years ago

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guenhwyvar

@guenhwyvar

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#74

Originally posted by: ashne
It's not just dirty minds, Shyam. Looks like the Author is trying to imply something else. When a person of his stature says something, people are bound to think it is true. This is just how all the additions or changes may have taken place over time.

Very true. Ugh ... and the sad thing is people rarely question it either. Those who question it are in the minority and thus glazed over.

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#75

Anu, did u read that link Shyam posted. In that it is written that, there was no way Karna could have been King and Karna himself knew that and he said so too. So why would G even consider saying something like this. He very well knew Karna was not a fool.

As for Debroy 😡

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#76

Originally posted by: shyam09

Very true. Ugh ... and the sad thing is people rarely question it either. Those who question it are in the minority and thus glazed over.

Like us⭐️. How about that trip to meet him?

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#77

Oh gosh. I actually have to write this part.😭

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guenhwyvar

@guenhwyvar

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#78

Originally posted by: AnuMP
Oh gosh. I actually have to write this part.😭

Yes but you get to interpret it from Govind's POV so you can correct the sad misunderstanding that has plagued translators. That's a good thing for you Anu!

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

#79

Originally posted by: shyam09

Yes but you get to interpret it from Govind's POV so you can correct the sad misunderstanding that has plagued translators. That's a good thing for you Anu!

Yes Anu, be the saviour of future generations and correct this gross misinterpretation.

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Chiillii

@Chiillii

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

#80

Anu I believe,

When it comes to Krishna we all become like Sheldon in Big Bang Theory. Always expect he means what he says. Also subtle emotions was not vyasas strong points, he hyperboles everything.

I believe that Krishna's sole purpose for the conversation was to rub it in.

His whole life Karna tried to gain respect and always felt it was denied to him. Everybody knew that...

Krishna offering Him the honor of being emperor and most respected Yudhishtir at his feet and Draupadi's offer was nothing but sarcasm, hell even insult.

So basically Krishna was telling him you know what, " whatever you wanted in life, respect, empire, Draupadi, you were never meant have. Because if you were meant have it, all that was needed to be done was recognizing you as Kuntis son.

Karna understood the sarcasm, hence he replied, no even if I am known as Kuntis son, legally I may not have got it. I would only get it due to kindness of Yudhi, which I don't want

Karna was always touchy guy when it came to respect..he craved it. And he was dury's biggest support. Only way to cut him down was disrespect or insult. That's what bheeshma did, shalya did and Krishna did.

And it did work