Jaya CC#2 Members Only (Story so far - Pg 64) - Page 10

I think DS and VH can be from Dury POV or even some of the Pandav POV. Does it have to b from all POVs?

Panchali POV once she is the DS

You know when you don't know anything about meter or rhyme and you still feel like spouting poetry? I have been feeling like that for 2 days now 😆

Originally posted by: AnuMP

You know when you don't know anything about meter or rhyme and you still feel like spouting poetry? I have been feeling like that for 2 days now 😆

Since no one has actually bothered to continue the story, I am going to bore you with my amateur poetry

(please recognize hurt and sarcasm in G's words to Daruka)

Kamyaka vana

Panchali - Whither thy love, thy friendship?

Whither thy respect, thy kinship?

No father, no brother, no husband have I.

Not even you, my namesake!

Govinda - I promise you on the earth and the waters

I promise you on the mountains and stars

The tears that you shed will be paid for in blood

To this I swear my fidelity

Beautiful friend, sister to my soul

Arrows will fly, life blood will flow

What your husbands can do, so will I do

Queen to the kings, soon you will be!

Upapalavya

Panchali - Is peace but a lack of war?

Is virtue a lack of action?

What price then does sin have to pay?

What price a woman's honor?

A daughter of the realm, a wife to kings

A mother to heroes, a friend to Gods

What price my blood? What price my life?

What value my being as a human?

Govinda - Beautiful friend, sister to my soul!

Wife to my mate, mate to my heart

I promise you again the heavens and the earth.

I promise you again the sun and the stars.

Weep no more, O Queen of the realm

They will wage war, with me at the helm

Weep no more, dry your tears

My words to you will never be deceitful

Angry Daruka confronting Govinda after the talk with Karna

Now a slave again, now she is lost.

Now attacked again, now she is disrobed.

Was it I who did this again?

Now stand her enemies, bloodied robe in their hands.

Now stand the little men, crimson blood on their heads.

Is it me that stands with them?

Here I am now, hugging them to my heart

Here I am now, hands stained with her blood

Am I now one of them, taunting her in the sabha?

Accusingly, his friend and charioteer glared at him.

The courage of a woman, the weaker of the sexes

The nobility of a woman, the lesser of beings

To confront, to win, to stand tall

The beauty of a woman, flowing from her heart

The fire of a woman, flaming from her spirit

Desired, wanted, coveted by all

The love of a friend, so undeserved

The trust of a woman, so unwarranted

Did I betray it all?

Originally posted by: AnuMP

You know when you don't know anything about meter or rhyme and you still feel like spouting poetry? I have been feeling like that for 2 days now 😆

Since no one has actually bothered to continue the story, I am going to bore you with my amateur poetry

(please recognize hurt and sarcasm in G's words to Daruka)

Kamyaka vana

Panchali - Whither thy love, thy friendship?

Whither thy respect, thy kinship?

No father, no brother, no husband have I.

Not even you, my namesake!

Govinda - I promise you on the earth and the waters

I promise you on the mountains and stars

The tears that you shed will be paid for in blood

To this I swear my fidelity

Beautiful friend, sister to my soul

Arrows will fly, life blood will flow

What your husbands can do, so will I do

Queen to the kings, soon you will be!

Upapalavya

Panchali - Is peace but a lack of war?

Is virtue a lack of action?

What price then does sin have to pay?

What price a woman's honor?

A daughter of the realm, a wife to kings

A mother to heroes, a friend to Gods

What price my blood? What price my life?

What value my being as a human?

Govinda - Beautiful friend, sister to my soul!

Wife to my mate, mate to my heart

I promise you again the heavens and the earth.

I promise you again the sun and the stars.

Weep no more, O Queen of the realm

They will wage war, with me at the helm

Weep no more, dry your tears

My words to you will never be deceitful

Angry Daruka confronting Govinda after the talk with Karna

Now a slave again, now she is lost.

Now attacked again, now she is disrobed.

Was it I who did this again?

Now stand her enemies, bloodied robe in their hands.

Now stand the little men, crimson blood on their heads.

Is it me that stands with them?

Here I am now, hugging them to my heart

Here I am now, hands stained with her blood

Am I now one of them, taunting her in the sabha?

Accusingly, his friend and charioteer glared at him.

The courage of a woman, the weaker of the sexes

The nobility of a woman, the lesser of beings

To confront, to win, to stand tall

The beauty of a woman, flowing from her heart

The fire of a woman, flaming from her spirit

Desired, wanted, coveted by all

The love of a friend, so undeserved

The trust of a woman, so unwarranted

Did I betray it all?

Originally posted by: shyam09

Hmm but what about the other words - "cha, tvaam, tathaa." Surely they can contribute to a change in the meaning.

Shasthe Kaale may mean sixth part of time, but Shasthe Kaale is not together in the verse. It's Shasthe cha twam tatha kaale.

It just doesn't make sense to me for Krishna to offer Draupadi in that specific manner at that specific moment, context wise. Krishna's actions and characteristics have never been about treating women like property. He married 16,100 kidnapped women of Narakasur just because they were "tainted" for being kidnapped.

Here is what I think (it's a new epiphany):

"Draupadi will come to meet you near evening time" as you translated can mean so many different things. So we have to look at the context to make sense of it, rather than look at it individually.

From the context, this is what I have pulled out-

Krishna is saying that a lot of people, kings and queens, will come to attend your coronation bringing with them lots of stuff. This will probably take place in the right before evening (depending on the equivalence of 1 Kala is, I would guess mid-afternoon?). Draupadi will also come at that time (indicating that Draupadi has forgiven Karna for her insult!). Dhaumya will do some rituals and Pandavas' family priest will do some more rituals.

I think the translators have dirty minds ... 😆😆

When Shashthe and kaale have same vibhakti (note that both end with 'e' vibhakti) they must be connected. In Sanskrit, an adjective always carries same vibhakti of noun. Same vibhakti tells us that the shashthe will be adjective of noun kaale. If it was 'six people' or something else, it should have been 'shashtha' and not 'shashthE'. Please remember that in this language, words are generally misplaced always, for the sake of poetic beauty. Even in Sanskrit proses, I have frequently found that words do not sit like English following any rule. A sentence can even be started with a verb, or verb can be in the middle. We always have to arrange the words like English to understand it. Also the sixth does not seem to refer to six people. That is shashthe, not shat (noun). And how will six people come in picture suddenly? Pandavas and their all children are already separately mentioned, right?
That cha is 'and', that and is a continuation of previous verse/previous offer. Speaker is adding one more offer, so He is using the 'and'. 'And' you will get this too...this is meaning. Rather 'too' will be better here as per context. Twaam is you and tathaa is then. So after arrangement, Tathaa cha shashthe kaale Draupadi upagamishyati twaam. Then at sixth time, Draupadi too will come to you.
And yes, you are right. 8th kaala is evening (that I'm sure, see yaksha prashna scene) so 6th must be mid-afternoon. And coronation rituals are indeed very long so they may take time. It will be late to finish all rituals and then the former Empress will come to greet Karna. This seems okay for me.

I have seen that Krishna fans of FB pages have mistranslated it again to save Krishna. I myself am a huge Krishna fan, but I do not like to change meaning to save anybody even if he/she is my favourite. I was confused initially so checked dictionary for 'upagamishyati' and that is an innocent word. So I have reason to support Krishna. Btw I too want to believe this verse is an interpolation. But even if He said so, it has nothing to do with 'intercourse' or something like that. It was plain strategy to make Karna weak. As Adi di said, it can be a sarcasm too.
Indeed, translators are biased 😭 KMG changed so many things that sometimes I decide not to open that book again 😆 direct Sanskrit will be easier and better. But I did not even think that CE can do this 😲 I had a trust on CE 😭

Yes everybody please tell me whose POV DS should have before Panchali enters. I am afraid. I hardly will have any chance to be alive after writing DS from Yudhi's POV 😆

Originally posted by: AnuMP

BTW

For those interested 😆 Swastik's Manmarziyan on Star has all sorts of MB combos. ArDi, GoLi, ArSu, and am told ParAv started today. There is even a Dury back in Rishikesh🤣

seems like Swastik is still not out of their MB enigma 🤣
Please elaborate as I cant watch it. 😭 (I watch something else at dat time😆)

Originally posted by: ashne

Why would so called scholars translate in such a manner, that the truth is far from what they mean?

Quoting your post but saying this general 😊

😆Its like this. Say the sentence is "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than ever dreamt of in your philosophy."
Now say I am strongly against Horatio (LOL! 🤣)
So I in Bengali would translate in into something which would make it seem like a taunted statement. Like "Tumi ja bhabo tar cheye onek beshi achhe bujhle!" (Well this is translation of the above statement but this seems a rude way to say that. I can also say this is a beautiful way.

When one translates, it is very important to be neutral, I think. Especially when you are translating a piece of literature, you cant let your own opinions come in between. Sadly NO TRANSLATOR follows this 😭 Except maybe Tintin and Asterix comic translators. 😆 So then, they twist and turn the actual words a little and translate it. If I am a Karna fan no matter how neutral the actual text and what the truth is, it is not surprising I will try to make the sentences pro-Karna. The vice-versa is also applicable.
This is another rreason why I find citation fights stupid. (Unless you are stating a fact like there were 5 pandavs. You provide citation to prove.) The words need understanding.

Sadly, Vyasa's words are lost somewhere amidst trial, error, language, paper and ink...

Originally posted by: AnuMP

BTW I think Kunti Vyasa is busy till the 10th. So may be Shyam can have his 101 children+Yuyutsu and K can add later 😆

Otherwise we are stuck.

Thanks Anu di. 😊
BTW I needed to know what about the Karna birth? I need to add more right? VYASA OR SOLAR DYNASTY 😕