Arman vs. Ellie - Page 13

Originally posted by: BossB

Its okay if you can't relate to what I'm saying. The purpose of the discussion is not to convince you that I'm right, but to make you and others like you realize that perceptions opposite to your perception can be equally valid or right.

Isn't it kinda hypocritical for you to mention the above lines. If you really feel perceptions are subjective, then why do I keep reading from your end "your perception is wrong" "others are bad judge of character" "conditioned response" and supporting others who slam our opinions just because we do not relate to yours and criticized the guy for something we didn't find it appropriate.

Why can't a woman have an opinion on a man without being tagged a feminist or bad judge of character. If we truly are talking about equality, I wouldn't have been at the receiving end of all these tags for not agreeing with what I saw on TV. Just the way I have called out on Armaan's actions, I have done the same even for women when they use gender card on the show. But even then without knowing, members here are ready to tag us just because we have a different opinion. So if the same is happening to you, why cry foul. If you are judgmental in nature, why expect others not to judge you based on what you write.

Anyways, end of the day, you have your own take on it and we have our own. Try to be tolerant of others' opinions and probably then you can preach the above lines. Simply my take on what I have witnessed on this thread. If you don't agree or don't want to agree, your prerogative.

Originally posted by: Diva-In-Armor

Isn't it kinda hypocritical for you to mention the above lines. If you really feel perceptions are subjective, then why do I keep reading from your end "your perception is wrong" "others are bad judge of character" "conditioned response" and supporting others who slam our opinions just because we do not relate to yours and criticized the guy for something we didn't find it appropriate.

Why can't a woman have an opinion on a man without being tagged a feminist or bad judge of character. If we truly are talking about equality, I wouldn't have been at the receiving end of all these tags for not agreeing with what I saw on TV. Just the way I have called out on Armaan's actions, I have done the same even for women when they use gender card on the show. But even then without knowing, members here are ready to tag us just because we have a different opinion. So if the same is happening to you, why cry foul. If you are judgmental in nature, why expect others not to judge you based on what you write.

Anyways, end of the day, you have your own take on it and we have our own. Try to be tolerant of others' opinions and probably then you can preach the above lines. Simply my take on what I have witnessed on this thread. If you don't agree or don't want to agree, your prerogative.

Originally posted by: mansimat

You should have quoted the entire thing earlier then. I replied to whatever you quoted n there was no mention of this incidence in that one.

Now that I read it, I will say that no one in their right mind can put blame in the incidence on only Pratyusha n give Arman a clean chit. From her dialogues it looks exactly like that. Poor Arman only has anger issues. This just proves that Hazel is completely biased towards Arman. It's hypocrisy of hers that she means that Prat was misbehaving but Arman did not, when both were doing the same thing essentially. She wasn't even an eye witness and still she is saying this as if she saw it all. Why will Ellie "tell her that" when Ellie was the one upset with Arman.

For your points
A. Knowing a person also creates a bias. This is clear from her little speech. She is actually talking about n gushing over him like a FAN. I am watching as an unbiased 3rd party n my opinion is the blame lies squarely on Arman's shoulders. I didn't even know that Arman existed before BB, so I have no prior fandom or negative bias. I watched live feed, not just 1hr short capsule.
B. her support is biased by a halo effect

As I said earlier too. My view on Arman has not formed through this one incidence. All that stuff about his saying stuff in anger to Ellie, even if he did at that time. He came inside n jokingly told people "I told Elli either puppy loonga ya kapde phaad doonga" . If he had spoken only in anger earlier, he wouldn't have come back inside n repeated it again. It meant he actually thought like that. That showed his view clearly. In my opinion, anger always gets the better of you. People end up blurting out what's on their mind. Either way, his attitude about women is clear - male chauvinist to the point of being a misogynist.

He also had other golden quotes like "chammak challo", "aurat Ho, aurat ki tarah raho", "ladki ko Lekar nikal" n many others I was pissed off at.

About your disrespecting woman thing- well Ellie is a woman n he disrespected her. Most of his other dialogues also are towards women. Hence probably people are saying he disrespects women. If he was doing it with men, then they would say he disrespects men. What's the big deal in that.
Of course no one is obliged to respect women, but if someone doesn't, a spade will be called a spade. I believe sexual n MC remarks are one of the biggest disrespect towards women. So I am going to call him that. It's my as well as everybody else's choice, what they get offended with. No one can tell people to react in a particular way to something which they feel is offensive. If you are not offended, I am not asking you to be.

Please spare me the lecture on different opinions being all right. I am not a kid n neither am I saying anything to you that you have to repeat it in every post. If its something personal with another member, please take it with him/her directly.

In this case, a lot of people think your opinion is wrong. I cant help in that. Also you are too free to think that Arman is the good guy. No one is stopping you. But then don't crib if you don't get people support.

@bold (red) - If you really think in your right mind that Hazel is not biased, that's your opinion too. Mine is obviously not n I have given justifiable reasons for that. Still you refuse to believe what's in front of your eyes. Your choice.

Adding to above ^^

Originally posted by: mansimat

Adding to above ^^

If we are all quoting interviews n media articles. Here is one more -

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/feb/1002151.htm

Arman had pleaded guilty to assault on GF. Yes he is a sexist, MCP man. Now if this news is not enough, or not valid. Then of course nothing is genuine - BB/Live feed/Hazel interview. All discussion is moot.

If the man had actually been innocent, I would have been the first one to defend him. I am no feminist, I only want to support the right PERSON, man or woman. If a man misbehaves or displays sexist behavior, he will be called exactly that. If a woman is manipulative, she would be called that. There are many different adjectives for many different human behaviour. They will all be used, as per situation.

Overall I see that because of hatred/dislike towards "forum feminists", "mass forum trend" ,a despicable man is being defended.

So I repeat that you may think the incident is blown out of proportion, but others may not. And neither are you to judge which incident is important or trivial. This is a forum of individual people,if they feel they are offended by something, they will post their thoughts. On what basis can you say that its blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by: mansimat

So I repeat that you may think the incident is blown out of proportion, but others may not. And neither are you to judge which incident is important or trivial. This is a forum of individual people,if they feel they are offended by something, they will post their thoughts. On what basis can you say that its blown out of proportion.

There are different definitions of good person or bad person. Different basis for different people. I have personally never explicitly mentioned that he is a bad person. I am only discussing about his one personality trait, based on whatever I saw on the show. That is he is a MCP, sexist man.

Now whether his one personality trait dominates so much that someone is unable to to see beyond that, is individual perception. One may choose to believe that he is a bad person based on his attitude and ABUSE towards women. I actually believe that he is a bad person, now that I thought about this, though I have not mentioned it before. Its my prerogative. However I can say there maybe some other aspects of his personality that are positive. This very logic can be used in the case of all sorts of people, including murderers, looters and rapists, they have done some bad, but each person may have one positive trait too.

Yes some feminists do sweep broad strokes for all men. But for this particular incident, why don't you look at it objectively and see Armaan for what he is, rather than defending him because some feminists are baying for his blood. He is wrong in the incident, no one can logically and objectively defend him. Feminists may be wrong sometimes but that doesn't mean they are wrong all the time or in this incidence. Please don't let your personal bias give you a rosy opinion of Armaan.

I also find it weird that you choose to compare Armaan with feminists, as if they are equal n opposite. Armaan is not what he is to defend men rights, he is just a male chauvinist pig, a sexist man who has beaten girls in his real life. And who is displaying that quite publicly.

I hope you understand n are able to distinguish between the two things.

About your last line (highlighted in red)- I will say that Armaan was bashed when he said remarks against Kushal for being in a poor family. Kushal was criticized for being a homophobe. Shilpa is criticized for being manipulative. Each one gets it for different faults. No one is spared. Men or women.

But I will agree to you that the last line(highlighted in red) may be true to some extent. Its a forum dominated by women. Some of whom have strong opinions about many issues. I being one of them. I have strong reactions to any human rights violation. Including woman abuse.

PS : I refrain from getting into intense discussions too often though.

+1

I don't have much time right now, but you couldn't have said it better. I think I agree with almost all you have mentioned here. And I also agree that people are busy tagging others of being feminists and finding the bias, but while doing so, they end up defending someone like Armaan.

@BossB: I'll get back to your post later.

Originally posted by: mansimat

Adding to above ^^

If we are all quoting interviews n media articles. Here is one more -

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/feb/1002151.htm

Arman had pleaded guilty to assault on GF. Yes he is a sexist, MCP man. Now if this news is not enough, or not valid. Then of course nothing is genuine - BB/Live feed/Hazel interview. All discussion is moot.

If the man had actually been innocent, I would have been the first one to defend him. I am no feminist, I only want to support the right PERSON, man or woman. If a man misbehaves or displays sexist behavior, he will be called exactly that. If a woman is manipulative, she would be called that. There are many different adjectives for many different human behaviour. They will all be used, as per situation.

Overall I see that because of hatred/dislike towards "forum feminists", "mass forum trend" ,a despicable man is being defended.

Originally posted by: BossB

Another point I forgot to include is that Armaan is a alpha male, and most women are attracted to alpha men. That's the reason, we see so many abusive relationships where women tolerate abusive behavior of their boyfriends as long as possible and complain only when they reach a point where they don't have any self-respect left.

Why is that so many women get attracted to bad boys? Its because they exude power, manliness, self-confidence and strength. They are drawn by their physicality, magnetism and charm, and willingly tolerate their bad behavior. Salman Khan exudes the same quality and that's why all women are crazy about him despite knowing about his abusive behavior towards all his ex-gf's

If women stop getting attracted to bad guys, alpha males like Armaan will be driven to extinction😆

Dude, one question for you until I come back to this discussion, why do you love generalizing things. Why can't you discuss with a member about a situation or person without making blatant generalization. It only makes your argument come out weaker, at least for me.