Insanity defence in Beyhadh

FreeTheNipple thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#1
With the current episodes, the Cvs have (intentionally or not) touched upon the debatable topic of insanity defence.

Is Maya Buri or Beemar ?
I quote some excerpts from the book titled

Evil Or ill?: Justifying the Insanity Defence

By Lawrie Reznek

Anybody who is interested in this topic can read this book and form your opinions in a more educated way. You can PM me if you want the pdf. You are free to apply it to Maya's case. 😃 Quoting from the book:

"Insanity Defence"

By insanity defence, I mean a legal device for excusing a
defendant on the basis of his mental illness.

First, there is the Cognitive Defence:
A person is NGRI (not guilty by reasons of insanity) if
and only if (1) he is suffering from a mental illness, and (2) the
mental illness causes him to be ignorant of what he is doing. This
defence says: I'm not guilty because I didn't know what I was
doing.'

Second, the Volitional Defence: A person is NGRI if and only
if (1) he is suffering from a mental illness, and (2) the mental
illness causes him to lose control of his impulses. This defence
says: I'm not guilty because I lost control.'

Third, the Causal Defence: A person is NGRI if and only if (1) he is suffering from a
mental illness, and (2) the mental illness causes his behaviour.
This defence says: I'm not guilty because my behaviour was
caused by a mental illness.'

I will argue for a fourth defence"the
Character Change Defence: A person is NGRI if and only if (1) he is
suffering from a mental illness, and (2) the mental illness causes a
change of moral character. This defence says: I'm not guilty
because I wasn't myself when I committed the offence.' While I will
argue this is a new excuse, it is already in use in our legal system.
It is implicit in many of our insanity judgements, and points the
way to a new understanding of the whole institution of excuses. If
justice is to be preserved, we must accept this novel defence.



An excerpt on character change

CHARACTER CHANGE AS AN INSANITY
DEFENCE

The excuse of a change in moral character enables us to explain
why we are inclined to excuse those cases of mental illness that do
not satisfy the traditional excuses of ignorance and compulsion.

We excuse M'Naghten ( I suggest you to read about the case of this person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_M%27Naghten) even though he
knew what he was doing and was in control. This is because
the mental illness so disturbs these people that they cease to be
themselves. Their distress is so great that their values change.
What becomes most important to them in such states is to end
the distress, and therefore they act. Because their normal values
do not incline them to behave in this way, we see them as having
undergone a change in moral character, and for this reason
deserve to be excused.

It would be unjust to punish them because
they are good people who undergo a change in moral character.
Paranoid patients whose delusions do not satisfy the As-if Rule
may still have excuses because they were not themselves when
they acted. Similarly for those suffering from volitional disorders.
If depression transformed McCullough from a law-abiding person
to a person who no longer cared about the law, we would be
inclined to excuse him even if he was not overwhelmed by his
impulses. When illness makes a person act out of character, we
are inclined to excuse him on the basis of a change in moral
character. Conversely, when madness does not excuse, it is often
because there is not the requisite change in moral character.

TheNeo-Nazi who kills what he takes to be a Jew does not have an
excuse, even though psychotic, because he acts in character.
When Deidre kills the casting director because she believes she
has lost the part, we are not inclined to excuse her because she is
a callous and ruthless person. The aim of excusing, remember, is
to excuse good characters, and this explains why we are not
inclined to excuse these cases.


Psychopathy is NOT classified as a disease/illness presently for social and political reasons

If we are to explain the most central cases where mental illness
excuses, we have to resort to the novel excuse of a change in moral
character. This also explains why many cases of provocation,
duress, and automatism excuse. This raises a problem for our
drawing a line between the mad and the bad when considering
personality disordered offenders. In general, where a disease
(other than a personality disorder) changes a personality from a
good to a bad moral character, we are inclined to excuse him
whether the change is reversible or not. When a personality
disorder produces an evil character, we are much less inclined to
excuse him because there is no natural place to draw the line
between the mad and the bad. Moreover, whether we classify
psychopathy as a disease (and therefore grant psychopaths
an excuse on the basis of character change) is a matter of choice,
and at present there are good reasons for not doing so. The social
and political cost of classifying psychopathy as a disease suggests
at present that we should view it as the embodiment of evil
instead.




Quoting Wikipedia
The insanity defence is recognized in Australia, Canada, England and Wales, Hong Kong, India, the Republic of Ireland, New Zealand, Norway and most U.S. states with the exception of Idaho, Kansas, Montana, Utah, and Vermont.

Whether Maya is a psychopath or mentally ill (e.g suffers from psychosis)remains a moot point. Also if she is ill, whether insanity defence applies to her.

Edited by dexter3108 - 8 years ago

Created

Last reply

Replies

23

Views

2k

Users

7

Likes

48

Frequent Posters

Nithunavi thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 8 years ago
#2
Such a detailed and beautiful analysis.
This was really needed & useful.
From yday words of maya to Vandy if u see.. u can understand her state like she says... "I don't want to become bad but when someone tries to come in btwn Me & arjun na... idk what happens to me I lose my control and don't know what happens to me & what to do..." something on those lines...
And even her dialogues with jhanvi that "I don't want to become bad but circumstances make me do it" something like that even said by arjun for maya...

I agree the person who undergo moral change due to mental illness &is considered not guilty because they aren't cruel people or bad but they don't have control over themselves.
They wantedly dont do it but become something else mentally ruthless due to their illness. Otherwise they are good people.

They don't understand how to handle themselves at that moments and also they end up their distress without knowing what to do.
And generally they are deserved to be excused and by law as well they are excused.
Instead of punishment it's empathy,support and care is needed for them and shown a right direction & guidance should be given in medical way too.
Edited by Nithunavi - 8 years ago
FreeTheNipple thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#3
A (debatable) set of features of Psychopath. Quoting from the book:

"He has superficial charm and such little anxiety that he is at ease
in situations that would unsettle the average person. He has no
sense of responsibility or shame, and a cavalier attitude towards
telling the truth. He commits antisocial acts with no regret, and
exercises poor judgement. He is incapable of love and attachment,
and does not respond to kindness and makes no genuine suicide
attempts. He has an unrestrained sex life. He fails to have any life
plan and follows a persistent pattern of self-defeat."

"We can explain these features by supposing psychopaths are no good at fear."

Edited by dexter3108 - 8 years ago
Khushi_love thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#4
Awesome post...👏..very poignant to current storyline...will go thru in detail n then comment...
But basically, gist is that is Maya ill (psychosis)l or evil(psychopath)?...so far, I always thought she was ill, but it now appears with each passing episode that shes headed towards evil...

If she'll be evil, I just hope they don't justify Ashwin too...entire storyline would go for a toss then...
HadhSeZyada thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#5
Just so you all know,
There's a huge difference between psychosis and psychopathy. They're altogether different.
Psychosis belongs to a whole new spectrum of delusional disorders. According to the DSM5:
Schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorders include schizophrenia, other psychotic disorders, and schizotypal (personality) disorder. They are defined by abnormalities in one or more of the following five domains: delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking (speech), grossly disorganized or abnormal motor behavior (including catatonia), and negative symptoms.


Whereas the traits of a psychopath, according to the NCBI, are listed as the following:
  • Glib and superficial charm
  • Grandiose self worth
  • Need for stimulation, prone to boredom
  • Pathological lying
  • Conning and manipulating
  • Lack of remorse or guilt
  • Shallowness of expressions
  • Callousness, lack of empathy
  • Parasitic lifestyle
  • Poor behavioral controls
  • Promiscuous sexual behavior
  • Early behavioral problems such as lying, fire setting, stealing etc.
  • Lack of realistic long term goals
  • Impulsivity
  • Irresponsibility
  • Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  • Many short term marital relationships
  • Juvenile delinquency, crimes and acting out between the ages of 13-18
  • Revocation of Conditional Release
  • Criminal versatility

DSM5 is like the bible for psychology as well as psychiatry.
And NCBI is the National Center for Biotechnology Information a part of the United States National Library of Medicine, which is a branch of the National Institutes of Health.


Originally posted by: dexter3108


Whether Maya is a psychopath or mentally ill (i.e suffers from psychosis) remains a moot point. Also if she is ill, whether insanity defence applies to her.


You sure did a wonderful job by letting us all know the legal aspects of this issue.

But on the medicinal front, there are many, many inconsistencies.


Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

Awesome post...👏..very poignant to current storyline...will go thru in detail n then comment...

But basically, gist is that is Maya ill (psychosis)l or evil(psychopath)?...so far, I always thought she was ill, but it now appears with each passing episode that shes headed towards evil...

If she'll be evil, I just hope they don't justify Ashwin too...entire storyline would go for a toss then...



Psychosis is delusional disorder and psychopathy is a personality disorder. Both are mental illnesses. Being a psychopath doesn't necessarily mean the person is evil. Not all psychopaths are killers.
Don't just throwaway terms you have no idea about. It misleads the others too, creating hysteria.
Edited by HadhSeJyada - 8 years ago
FreeTheNipple thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: HadhSeJyada

Just so you know,

There's a huge difference between psychosis and psychopathy. They're altogether different.
Psychosis belongs to a whole new spectrum of delusional disorders. According to the DSM5:
Schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic disorders include schizophrenia, other psychotic disorders, and schizotypal (personality) disorder. They are defined by abnormalities in one or more of the following five domains: delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking (speech), grossly disorganized or abnormal motor behavior (including catatonia), and negative symptoms.


Whereas the traits of a psychopath, according to the NCBI, are listed as the following:
  • Glib and superficial charm
  • Grandiose self worth
  • Need for stimulation, prone to boredom
  • Pathological lying
  • Conning and manipulating
  • Lack of remorse or guilt
  • Shallowness of expressions
  • Callousness, lack of empathy
  • Parasitic lifestyle
  • Poor behavioral controls
  • Promiscuous sexual behavior
  • Early behavioral problems such as lying, fire setting, stealing etc.
  • Lack of realistic long term goals
  • Impulsivity
  • Irresponsibility
  • Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  • Many short term marital relationships
  • Juvenile delinquency, crimes and acting out between the ages of 13-18
  • Revocation of Conditional Release
  • Criminal versatility

DSM5 is like the bible for psychology as well as psychiatry.
And NCBI is the National Center for Biotechnology Information a part of the United States National Library of Medicine, which is a branch of the National Institutes of Health.



Psychosis is delusional disorder and psychopathy is a personality disorder. Both are mental illnesses. Being a psychopath doesn't necessarily mean the person is evil. Not all psychopaths are killers.
Don't just throwaway terms you have no idea about. It misleads the others too, creating hysteria.


When did I say they are same ?
HadhSeZyada thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: dexter3108


When did I say they are same ?


You, and plenty others here, are using the term "psychosis" very very incorrectly.
FreeTheNipple thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: HadhSeJyada


You, and plenty others here, are using the term "psychosis" very very incorrectly.


Like where?
HadhSeZyada thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#9

Here,

Originally posted by: dexter3108



TheNeo-Nazi who kills what he takes to be a Jew does not have an
excuse, even though psychotic, because he acts in character.
When Deidre kills the casting director because she believes she
has lost the part, we are not inclined to excuse her because she is
a callous and ruthless person. The aim of excusing, remember, is
to excuse good characters, and this explains why we are not
inclined to excuse these cases.


Psychopathy is NOT classified as a disease/illness presently for social and political reasons


Whether Maya is a psychopath or mentally ill (i.e suffers from psychosis)remains a moot point. Also if she is ill, whether insanity defence applies to her.





Psychosis, more often called "delusion" disorder belongs to a class of disorders which also contain schizophrenia.


poppinss thumbnail
10th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: HadhSeJyada


You, and plenty others here, are using the term "psychosis" very very incorrectly.


Just curious... are you a voratious reader or are you into this field?

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".