Anandi's boundaries as a sarpanch - Page 20

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-Purva- thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: tinoo

Okay, so the issue of law vs. personal boundaries particularly when the law and law-upholders dont take responsibility for the fallout.

I believe that female foeticide is wrong -- for a variety of social issues.
I also believe that abortion of a child found to be mentally retarded or afflicted with down's syndrome in the womb (during the course of a sonogram) is also wrong -- because there are social and ethical issues at play.
The former is a big issue in India -- and the latter is a big issue in the U.S.
While it is illegal to engage in female foeticide in India -- in the U.S. there is no such law (YET) though there are several propositions/proposals on the table. So at this point, killing foetuses with disabilities is just unethical.
While pro-life activists condemn killing foetuses with disabilities ... I stand on the other side with the parents right to choose.
If the law stops a child with a disability from being aborted and that child is born, lawmakers and law-upholders will thump themselves on the back for having saved a life, dust their hands off and walk away congratulating themselves.
So, the child is born with severe disorders, and now the responsibility of this unwanted child is on the parents. The parents may or may not have the financial or the emotional werewithal to bring a child with a disability in this world, and then raise it for the next fifty years. I personally would not want to be tied down to a child with a disability (My choice -- others may have different choices).
It is very easy for someone to say "Tinoo should give birth to the child with down's syndrome because the child has a right to life"... when they will not be the ones shouldering the consequences.
The same with female foeticide -- I dont applaud it, but I really wonder about the activists who stop it, force the girl to be born and then walk away. The girl child is born into an environment where she is unwelcome. She will always be treated with resentment and second-rate treatment. It is not just that the lawmakers gave her a 'life'... my concern will be on the quality of life that this unwanted girl child will have.
I dont doubt the nobility of the first action... but when people who are not engaged with or interested in the consequences interfere and then dump the consequences back on the concerned parties, I really have issues.
I dont think that there are any clear cut solutions but it is certainly an interesting discussion on the law and its interference in personal matters.



No offense, but what does all this have to do with the serial or the episodes in question. You have raised some interesting points on abortion and female foeticide, and I would seriously love to discuss them at length, but seriously this is not the right forum for it.

Overall, I think you are confused between education, awareness campaigns and responsibility. When one stops a criminal activity from taking place esp. a social crime, it is not an action arrested by force majeure. It is most often accompanied by creating awareness and making the guilty party understand the reasons why their actions are wrong and guiding them towards a better thought process.

That is what social activists do. Stop a social crime from taking place and create awareness. They do not take lifelong responsibility of every victim they rescue. They are social activists not Christian Missionaries (apologies for using a religious example, but that is the most apt one that comes to mind to illustrate my point).

Missionaries act by creating an alternative world which is dissociated from contemporary society and build refuges. Social activists change the way people think, bringing about a change in the society as a whole. They unlike the former group, do not "rescue" the victims. They educate the guilty so that there are no more victims. One acts on individual cases, the other on society as a whole.


-Purva- thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: tinoo

The root cause of most of the problems is that anandi markets this as her own personal agenda ... and projects her own problems (with jagya et. al) onto the lives of other girls.

The people whom she guides and leads dont really understand why they need to rewire their lives based on anandi's personal agenda and her bad experience with jagya which they see as unfortunate, but as a one-off case.
For each anandi, there is an equally healthy happy child marriage going strong right now -- such as bhairon-sumitra; or lal-singh and his wife koyel, or jyoti's parents themselves. They see it as perfectly okay.



Ouch just for this I wish you would really read my first post in response to yours. In real life examples that you give are non-existent. Girls forced into child-marriages do end up conceiving 5-6 times before they are 18. Usually their first pregnancies end up in miscarriages. 90% of the times, due to ignorance and lack of proper care, their bodies are so ravaged by the time they are 18 that they are no longer able to conceive. This is when their families either throw them out or get the sons married again and the poor first wife lives on as a drudge. Seriously, you need to understand the evils of child-marriage fully. Real life is not as rosy as seen in tele-serials.
-Purva- thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: tinoo

ankit and parri --

thanks for your posts on female foeticide.
I have to think about how to articulate my thoughts on this as well as child marriage ...so will get back to you both in a while.
I want to clarify my framework/mental paradigm to you -- I am not Indian by birth, am European, but have spent about 20 years in India, and I learned the culture and hindi language throughout my work, and my field is rural development. i really, really try hard through my work to implement 'western policies' for development but find that there is always some sort of 'logic' within the rural social and cultural structures for some of the things I am supposed to overturn. it's a daily struggle.
Where is this right and wrong.
Believe me, I was born and raised in a culture and society where gender equality is at a premium, so naturally, I support the cause of female births as well as female education and girls growing up to blossom into their full identity (myself being a woman)... I love Balika vadhu as a serial, but sometimes when I see anandi so ' intrusive' in her ways it kind of really throws me off balance, particularly since she doesnt seem to have any plan. (atleast not one that has been revealed so far to the audience). now jyoti's parents are in jail... I have questions about jyoti's future.
Anyway, as I said, i will collect my thoughts and come back. Need to process your very well written posts. thank you for being so thoughtful as to provide me with honest and valuable feedback.



Ok now that I understand your thought process. What is intrusive by European standards is not so in India. Here people function most on "what would the neighbors think" - implying that it is ok for a neighbor to question you on what you would assume to be your personal matter.

For instance, I'm 40 and single. I still have to answer my mother's sister's daughter's son's mother-in-law about why I took that decision.
Believe me I was doing exactly that yesterday, because it would have been a social solecism to have told her off for being nosy. So when you see Anandi's actions as intrusive, we do not.

In our society if your grandfather called someone in the neighborhood his sister, then all subsequent generations would behave as though she was really a blood-relative. A village society is even more closely knit together than an urban one.

Secondly, what is right and legal should not be let go for spurious logic - which is logic stood on its head. When one argues with villagers, one is faced with seemingly unanswerable logic, but one has to know when and how to rebut and present your case properly in order to enlighten them. I once heard a lengthy argument on why I should get married to a tree, in order to take away the curse of spinsterhood from me. It only took asking them if the marriage to the tree would force the planets to move out of their own orbits into ones favorable to me, that stopped them in their tracks.
tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
chitrashi --
I havent read the content of your replies -- but have printed them out and will read them over the weekend.
Thank you for your painstaking effort and for taking the time in addressing several of my points. Appreciate it! 🤗Really a very solid and thoughtful job.
Best wishes
tinoo
bhoomi.s thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
When trying to fight any social evil, there needs to be a two-pronged solution - one legal and the other social, and these go together. If I say child marriage is illegal and subject some people to punitive action, it acts as a deterrent, not just by scaring other would-be offenders but by affecting their standing in society ('they had to go to jail'). This is the first and short-term step. The long-term solution is, of course, to change attitudes, and that takes persuasion and a strong opinion leader. In this particular case, Anandi has been campaigning against child marriage for a long time now, and as a result, Jaitsar is more or less free of the problem. And attitudes have changed too - as shown by the mehendi person who cringed when asked if she would put her daughter through the trauma of a child marriage. Jyoti's case is an exception to a norm achieved with great difficulty, and what Anandi did was right, because the first thing was to ensure that Jyoti's life wouldn't be ruined in the time taken to bring her parents around. Now that the wedding has been stopped, the next step is to counsel Jyoti's parents (and her neighbours. Why did they stand for what they've accepted as wrong?) about what could go wrong. I agree to an extent that Anandi's personal agenda isn't quite being translated into Jaitsar's agenda, and she really has to examine the reasons for that if she wants to make a dent in the practice.

@ the way Anandi reacts, I agree with you. She needs to be more tactful. In her defense, she's young and a victim of the practice herself, so it is understandable that she loses control when faced with the possibility that some one else might go through what she has. I'm not saying she's right, mind you, just that you can understand where she's coming from. She will change her methods as she matures, I'm sure.

As far as taking responsibility for Jyoti goes, I'm sure she would have thought of something if it had come to it. Considering that the DC had gotten involved, the government would have stepped in, and Anandi being who she is, she would have monitored Jyoti's education and personal life, or entrusted her to someone who could. Thankfully, it didn't come to that, because her parents came around. I understand that in such cases, there is some amount of monitoring after the parents are released. I'm not sure, though.

Legally, Anandi, as sarpanch, and Shiv, as DC, are completely within their rights in acting to promote social justice. In fact, Shiv is the party with most responsibility here. Anandi could just have informed him, and he could have stopped the wedding as a part of his duty. But Anandi is emotionally invested in the issue, so her actions are in character.

Coming to female foeticide in India, the problem is that women are forced to abort their girl children. No choice. The law prevents testing to find out the sex of the foetus and abortion that follows. Only the woman has the right to choose to terminate her pregnancy according to the MTP act, which I think is right. The next step, like I said earlier, is to change attitudes and that is going to take a lot of work, beginning with providing incentives to care for a girl child. It is a complicated issue, no doubt, but you have to begin somewhere. Change of this sort takes generations, but we can't stop trying. :-)

Edited by bhoomi.s - 13 years ago
KwitKatts thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: shalluuu

she has right to knock any home...to arrest anybody but when it comes to her own home she is mute...when reporter asked her "kya aapke pati ne aisa aapke saath kuch kiya h"...she was mute...ghar ki baat h bahar thodo phuchani hai

anandi the great sarpanch...

Please Shalluu that is not the case😭.. She was not mute because it was her ghar ki baat..it is something that hurt her a lot. Her expressions made that obvious!! If she had to keep her ghar ki baat as a secret she wouldn't have said that she is a balika vadhu in the first place.
Why being so hard on her?? I dont get it😕
KwitKatts thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: tinoo

but that is precisely my point surabhi. woh apni kisi family member ka insult nahi chaahti... lekin baaki har kisi ke family members ko jail ghaseet ke ley jaayegi.
what does it matter -- family ne saath diya ki nahi diya? If you go by stand law is law, then all criminals should be prosecuted by anandi.
is there any meaning in pure selectivity -- this criminal is good to me so I wont prosecute him?
and the other one is bad to me so therefore i will prosecute him?
yeh aapko thoda sa biased tareeka nahi lagta hai?

Tinoo, what is actually the reason for punishment? So that people understand what they did was wrong. Here her in-laws completely understand their mistakes and they are repenting. They are trying to correct their mistake by supporting Anandi every way possible. Even dadisa has completely changed.
Agar baat 17yrs pehle ki hoti to theek he. But pressently they have become so different. They didn't throw her out because their son left her. Had that been the case I would support you saying they too must be sent to jail. But now what it the point???
tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: katts

[

Tinoo, what is actually the reason for punishment? So that people understand what they did was wrong. Here her in-laws completely understand their mistakes and they are repenting. They are trying to correct their mistake by supporting Anandi every way possible. Even dadisa has completely changed.
Agar baat 17yrs pehle ki hoti to theek he. But pressently they have become so different. They didn't throw her out because their son left her. Had that been the case I would support you saying they too must be sent to jail. But now what it the point???

I am saying she should prosecute jagya not the singhs.
The singhs being good should not preclude her from prosecuting jagya.
That was the discussion going on. Jagya has not realized his mistake has he?
Just because a criminal's parents are nice to her does not deflect away from his crime.
KwitKatts thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: tinoo

🤣🤣 best solution surabhi 👍🏼
But on a serious note, just because someone is doing something doesnt mean we should refrain from criticism does it? Maybe there are ways for reshaping processes for efficiency ... or maybe it provides a revelation for doing things differently in the future.

Yes better ways of doing things can be thought of...definitly...but are we really thinking of that here? Aren't we all going round in circles saying the same thing again and again😕
tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
bhoomi -- very well written post. thanks!

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