Who killed Bhishma? - Page 2

Both scenarios that you have pointed out become possible if you see that Arjun and Shikhandi were not together in the same chariot. As in any battlefield with moving chariots, both need not be next to each other all the time.

When Shikhadin is ahead of Arjun his chariot is ahead of Arjun's

When Arjun is attacking alone then Shikhandi has moved away with his chariot to a different place.

I again repeat Arjun and Shikhandi were never on the same chariot together.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Both scenarios that you have pointed out become possible if you see that Arjun and Shikhandi were not together in the same chariot. As in any battlefield with moving chariots, both need not be next to each other all the time.

When Shikhadin is ahead of Arjun his chariot is ahead of Arjun's

When Arjun is attacking alone then Shikhandi has moved away with his chariot to a different place.

I again repeat Arjun and Shikhandi were never on the same chariot together.

I know they were on different chariot but the narrative is different in both scenarios

Shikhandi is in front of Arjun because

1 He is the only person whom Bhishma won't kill

2 Arjun is protecting him to fulfill his vow

Now, if Arjuna leads and Shikhandi is not mentioned then both narratives fail, Shikhandi is not important for Bhishma's death and Arjuna is not protecting Shikhandi to help him fulfill the vow

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Vasus?

About Shikhandi

For a royal prince arrangements can be made to bathe alone, it's not a big deal.

The epic says she was daughter and Drupad hid and the woman who married Shikhadini found out after the wedding that she had married a woman.

I suggest watching Rudhramadevi movie, it is based on real life story of princess Rudhramadevi who lived the same life as Shikhandini

A woman in the disguise of a man raised as prince since childhood and betrothed to a woman. She however tells the princess before the marriage her truth and she accepts to marry and continue the charade.

However the epic also mentions sex change for Shikhadini with a Yaksha and then him having a son.

However I don't believe that divine miracles etx

My opinion

Shikhandi was either a transsexual, physically male but psychologically female or homosexual. Which Drupad covered up easily till he was married.

Transsexual men and homosexuals can father children and they can be excellent warriors too

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Both scenarios that you have pointed out become possible if you see that Arjun and Shikhandi were not together in the same chariot. As in any battlefield with moving chariots, both need not be next to each other all the time.

When Shikhadin is ahead of Arjun his chariot is ahead of Arjun's

When Arjun is attacking alone then Shikhandi has moved away with his chariot to a different place.

I again repeat Arjun and Shikhandi were never on the same chariot together.

Isn't it possible that Shikhandi underwent a sex change surgery?

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

Isn't it possible that Shikhandi underwent a sex change surgery?

But Why?

Drupad has no reason to raise his daughter as a man, also the lack of privacy in those days with warriors moving on horseback traveling for months used to stay together, bath together

Everyone in Drupad's palace had to know Shikhandi's truth, it is not possible to keep a child clothed all the time

I mean when he grew up it must have been difficult to hide with his breasts and lack of weapon

I think he was homosexual, That's where the wife part is crucial IMO, everything else easy to detect with lack of privacy and servants whispering

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

Isn't it possible that Shikhandi underwent a sex change surgery?

Not unless we believe Aryavarta was a technologically advanced society with means of changing not only external organs, but internal as well as genetics because Shikhandi would have needed both testes and the Y chromosomes to produce the sons attributed to him.

My thought: I gave enough citations, including from Krishna's mouth and from Arjuna's own, that Shikhandi killed Bheeshma. Not merely helped or aided Arjuna, but killed.

That being said, I don't believe it happened in a vacuum. Shikhandi couldn't defeat Bheeshma on his own as seen on Day 7. Part of the reason is that Bheeshma did have a huge number of guards surrounding him as was appropriate for the commander-in-chief. Part of the reason COULD BE that the old chap was simply better than Shikhandi. Which was probably why Krishna was constantly urging Arjuna to kill even though the oath belonged to Shikhandi. Arjuna COULD kill Bheeshma but wasn't willing.

When the Pandavas, Upapandavas, Abhimanyu (I believe he was also there), and Shikhandi did a combined attack, death became inevitable for Bheeshma. This is where Bheeshma deciding to stop fighting Arjuna becomes important. His bigotry is well-documented in his own words in Anushasana Parva. He definitely did not want to die to a man he considered a woman. Knowing he was going to die, Bheeshma preferred to die at Arjuna's hands instead of Shikhandi's. Bheeshma's own words about Arjuna's arrows piercing his vitals are proof. Arjuna didn't use any of the special astras. Otherwise, arrows are arrows. Similar to bullets, unless one were to dig them out and examine, it wouldn't be possible to tell the difference for the one dying. Also, if he stayed alive for so long after war, he certainly wasn't struck in ANY vitals. He bled to death over days. He preferred to do so instead it being bandied about a gay man brought him down.

I agree with the part that Bhishma was bigoted and didn't want to be killed by Shikhandi.

And that he went to great lengths to ensure that the world atleast does not think he was fairly killed by Shikhandi.

From stating in advance that he will drop weapons if Shikhandi attacks, but not doing that when Shikhandi actually attacks him,

To when death seems inevitable drops weapon in front of Arjuna

To telling everyone who was listening that arrows that killed him belonged to Arjun. When he actually had arrows on his body shot by Arjun Shikhandi and many others

Also Pandavas and Vyasa respected his wishes to be known as not killed by homosexual / transexual.