Jodha Akbar discussion corner! - Page 36

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myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
I see many discussions on Bairam Khan.
I think the idea that BK was using Akbar for power is completely wrong.
Why?
BK became his foster father and protector when Humayun was not even an emperor, Humayun was a vagabond and Akbar a child running here-there to save from his fathers enemy.
Now think of this which man shall protect and save a child risking his life again and again when that child's father is not even an emperor, who has lost all lands, who may never become king forget emperor again. In 21st century almost none, in 16th century definitely none. You must have read of so many betrayals, sons killing father for throne, brother killing brother, uncle killing nephews, father killing son(aurangzeb-akbar II) in those times for throne.
In such a situation here was a Bairam Khan- commander of Persian army(yes he was a commander of shah of persia) who came with Humayun from Persia to rescue a baby Akbar and Bakshi Bano from their uncles Askari and Kamran. The battles were stretched for months and years and fought many times, many army returned back in frustration not Bairam Khan. Why? He could have just gone back to Persia and enjoyed a peaceful life. But no he stayed back, fought for Humayun, protected Akbar, risked his life again and again not for any personal gain. At that point of time Sher Shah and his family was firmly on Delhi saddle, no way Humayun could ever dream of becoming a emperor. Humayun was only king of kabul that too with threats from uzbek, delhi etc. At this time it was only Bairam Khan who stayed loyal and stick by Humayun. Not out of any personal gain etc.
In the battles Humayun saved Bairam Khan life risking his own, off field BK became a second father to Akbar. Humayun who was busy in siyasaat, BK became a father, a teacher, a guide, a protector of Akbar. If not for BK Akbar would have got killed long back by someone either his relatives like Abul Mali, Sharifuddin, Mah chu chuk or Maham, Adham, some nobel etc or his enemy. The only thing that stood between Akbar and his death was always Bairam Khan after his father's death.
So Bairam Khan was not at all this egoistic, greedy for power guy that all think he was. BK truly loved Akbar like an own son. BK had many wives but he was so busy trying to protect first Humayun then Akbar and help build mughal emperor that he had a child in his 50s. And BK's son Rahim's mother was a direct descendant of Lord Krishna. So BK was not even a religious fanatic as potrayed. Akbar just followed BK by marrying Jodha a rajputh.
BK-Akbar fight was more of a father-son ego issue. It was majorly created by Maham anga. Maham anga sowed the seed of suspicion in Akbar mind that BK was getting too powerful, that BK was eyeing the throne etc and she created circumstances that made Akbar believe that BK was turning into a betrayer. Maham and quiet a few nobels were involved in filling Akbar's ears against BK. And BK too held on to his ego and refused to speak to Akbar or see the tricks played. This led to a confrontation and BK finally lost and was sent off to Mecca. But i never read anywhere BK tried killing Akbar or wanting to rule himself.
According to me BK Akbar fight was a father-son fight, a generation fight, a fight between BK and Maham on who really ruled Akbar's mind and Maham won here. If BK was in agra no way adham would dare kill atagah or try to attack Akbar. Indeed Akbar wanted to be free(like all sons after a certain age want too when they start earning) and BK never realized that, he thought Akbar was still a child to be hand held and when Akbar rebelled BK did what majority fathers do, get angry threaten etc but then gave up his power to his son Akbar. Akbar too played along with Maham and other nobels as he wanted to be free. This was the real history story.
So i totally disagree that BK ever wanted the throne or became too big for his shoes.
But the serial is simplifying this and making BK greedy for power, maham the instigator and Akbar a loyal son who never wanted Khan baba to leave etc.
ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: devkidmd

Fort Myers, Florida. Are these good print with no songs muted? Maybe I can get them online.
Vancouver? Nice! That is on the top of my "to visit" list.😊
Devki



good prints😊..the guy who owns the shop downloads then online i believe, the ads are edited, the print is good, and the scenes are complete! i stopped buying after hh death, maybe i still have to buy few more to completed the series before the major leap! not interested in watching the show post leap!
Shah67 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: ghalibmirza



good prints😊..the guy who owns the shop downloads then online i believe, the ads are edited, the print is good, and the scenes are complete! i stopped buying after hh death, maybe i still have to buy few more to completed the series before the major leap! not interested in watching the show post leap!

Can you PM me his name and phone# please? If you can.
Thanks
Devki
Edited by devkidmd - 9 years ago
Donjas thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Shyamala, I don't mind admitting, I save yours posts to my computer. The visual imagery of your writings imagined by my brain can at times create a more compelling medium than the video itself. It will be sad day when your writings, original and modified stop.

Now coming to the episode. The Jalal Bairam Khan seen is very interesting, Bairam Khan is almost disdainful towards his young pupil, but why should he be. You said due to religious reasons, it made sense for Bairam Khan to support Akbar. As time passed he must have seen the real abilities of the young man, as Akbar's later career proved. Why couldn't Bairam Khan see that this man could not be toyed with.

I think love too comes into the picture. He must have realized how dangerous his young pupil was becoming but he could do nothing about it, the same poisonous kind of love that Maham had.

Another point you mentioned, Jalal not afraid to get his hands dirty. There is evidence for that, the Jesuit fathers who visited Akbar during the time of construction of Fatehpur Sikri, often found him working as a stone mason with not a thought to his appearance. Akbar was a polymath, and you don't get to be that without getting your hands dirty.

The last scene of Jalal's exuberance as he rode into danger did justice to the real Akbar. He too took inordinate risks, the kind of risks that could even be called foolhardy. Rajat did justice to that image of Akbar, one could sense the excitement on his face, the thrill of going into the unknown.




Edited by Donjas - 9 years ago
Sandhya.A thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Jodha Akbar 5: Bipolar bitterness

Folks,

I was glad to notice two things on our thread. One, which delighted me, was the lively discussion on JA-related and non-related topics by many of you, including resurrected dropouts like my Chipmunk No.1, Alakh. Pretty soon she will find some fellow-conspirators and will turn this thread into a such a tangle of wisecracks and nutty posts that I shall be hard put to locate the comments that I need to respond to. Already,with daily posts on the same thread, I am getting confused as to which I have replied to and which I am yet to do so. And there asre some, like yours to the Episode 2 post, Preeti, which just get lost. When Alakh gets going, I do not know what I am going to do!😉

Wish Tripti were here too to make a complete cat's cradle of the thread.😆

I have watched it 6 times this time around, and still, the expression in Jalal's eyes at every point of the exchange simply blew me away.

Only 6?!!!🤪


Which is where Hamida Bano makes her first mistake in this exchange, when she says: Khat, wo to siyaasati rasam lagti hai. Aur siyaasat ke liye jazbaton ki nazarandaz nahin kar sakte Jalal!

Jalal pounces on this opening that falls into his lap, metaphorically speaking. He swivels around, and his eyes finally look into hers as his words, delivered without overt anger and in a level tone that belies the surging rage within him, drip vitriol. Shayad wo to humein virasat mein mila hai..The lips are twisted into a smile that is anything but pleasant...Aapne bhi to siyaasat ke liye jazbat ko chhod diya tha na? Her Jalal!, drips anguish but what is the use? Like an unwary chess player, she has brought this on herself.


His bitterness was intensified and flamed by the Mistress of Manipulation Mahaam Anga. Had she not indoctrinated into him that it was she who cared more ( as she couldn't hope for a fraction of power she enjoyed without) Knowing his emotional vulnerability she saw to it that no one else felt or realised his soft side abd cut off every other emotional attachment of his to be the sole humdardi of the Emperor. BK used Jalal's skills and pride and MA used his sensitivity that was her exclusive secret. ( It was utterly idiotic of Ruqaiya not to break that veneer of dash and pride and discover the real Jalal. She had every opportunity to do that. But she was too absorbed in the power and celebrity status that being his wife got her. Even if she did feel a void with his no-dil attitude she never sought to or bothered to correct it.)


Hamida Bano's face - and she looks much younger here than she does later in Agra (and Rashmi, I am afraid there is not Dabur Keshkala angle to her, for the line you see running into her hair is not white hair but a parting!) - looks as desolate and tragic as that of a hurt child. She again leads with her chin as she asks precisely the one question she should not have asked: Hum yaad nahin aate tumhein?

That does it. The inner wall in Jalal's zehen that holds back his bitterness to some extent breaks, and he lashes out in sarcasm so cold and biting that it must have chilled Hamida Bano to the bone. He looks into her eyes once again, his own full of icy contempt as he searches for words that can be as hurtful as possible.

Yaad karte hain. Jab bhi hum kisi laawaris ko pattharon ke beech rote dekhte hain, to aap yaad aate hain -each of the last words stressed for greater effect - Shayad us maa ki bhi koyi majboori rahi hogi!


Reminded me of the famous Karn Kunti confrontation a little.


What lies ahead, alas!:Hamida is left lamenting: Bas ab ek hi ummeed hai, ki koyi aaye uski zindagi mein, roshni bankar, jo use in andheron se nikal sake. With that pronouncement, we are forewarned as to what to expect: a Jodha Mahaan-who-can-do-no-wrong, who will exorcise the darkness in Jalal's soul, unearth his dil that was hidden in some corner of his being, give it enough to cardio-pulmonary ressucitation to get it going😉, and generally spread sweetness and light all around, and end up with an XXL 24 carat halo around her pretty head. 😡


😈😈😈😈 *rubbing my hands in glee* As Khushi said this has given us the lisence to lament atleast once surely...🤣


Jodha: Anger for public concerns:

Moti's counter argument is amazing in its logic and breadth of vision, unexpected from someone at her level who has, moreover, suffered at the hands of Jalal's soldiery: Zaroori to nahin ki log jo kehte hain wo sach ho? Kya pata uske sainik uska naam lekar galat kam karte hon aur Jalal ko malum hi na ho?

But for Jodha, Jalal the Jallad is an idee fixe, and she has no notion go letting logic or rationality get in its way. So she retorts: Andha, behara to nahin hai wo! Jo hota hai usi ke hukum se hota hai!.. Humne Bhai sahib se bhi suna hai ki wo kitna nirdayee hai.. Humne to yahan tak suna hai ki wo apni maa tak ko nahin poochta hai!!.. Insaan nahin, patthar hai wo, patthar! Uske seene mein dil hi nahin hai! (How can a patthar have a dil? But never mind, for logic was never Jodha' strong point!)

This could have been a case of Pride and Prejudice but ended up as ...no no i will not waste my LTL here.😉

But I must say that Jodha looks very beautiful in this sequence, and the anger in her face and eyes is fiery but controlled.

Oranges and yellows make her glow...

Her subsequent stated determination - apart of course from wanting Jalal's mrityu to be facilitated by Devi Maa, followed by Jalal ka sar at the Devi Maa's feet - is to have a page for herself in the chapter in history that she concedes, undoubtedly with great reluctance, will be devoted to Jalal: wo panna jo Jalal ki zindagi to badal ke rakh de..

Maa Saraswati has indeed spoken thru her at this moment. What she has, in her usual Delphic fashion, left unsaid is that the one who can, and would, put Jalal's head at the feet of the goddess was Jalal himself. But that exquisite scene is 82 episodes away, so we have to possess our collective souls in patience till we get there.

Motibai excels:

Moti, why, oh why did they replace you? There is no one whose exit I have missed more, except for Abdul. You had the wisdom, the logical mind and the detached affection and loyalty that could have held a mirror up to your mistress' face, and moderated Jodha's excesses of mahaanta and preachiness. You were a real character, not a wooden bystander with a flat, expressionless voice. But as with Abdul, our luck did not hold.

She was beginning to eclipse Jodha at times. Her shuddha Hindi qas pleasing to the ears compared to Jodha's rock chewing like dhad dhad dialogue delivery. Even Jalal is not allowed that. ( outshine).


Sabse bade soorma: So that brings us to the concluding, and extremely evocative scene between Jalal and his Khan Baba. When Bairam Khan states: Taariq mein tumhara naam sabse bade soorma ke taur par darj hoga, Jalal asks him why he is suddenly thinking along these lines. But his face shows smug self-satisfaction, for he knows that this rank is his, and that no one can question it.

What Bairam Khan goes on to say is curiously revealing, and this as much about himself as of Jalal. Achanak kahan? Barson se hum dekhta aarahe hain..Jeet ka junoon lekar paida hue ho tum. Dushman ho ya jazbaat, donon par bakhoobi qaboo paa sakte ho tum. Jung ka maidan ho ya ki mahal, jeet tumhare zehen par haavi hoti hai.. Raat ko sote waqt bhi apni shamsheer ko ek pal ke liye bhi apne se juda nahin karte..

The lovely shamsheer...😃...(that was later used only as a handrest in darbar for a long long time...😭.) Jalal's bed time companion, that was his pen for history writing and his Elder Wand to his opponents then. ( now this is no lament either...only a praise)


Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

Sandhya.A thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala



ABSOLUTELY. JALAL LOOKED ABSOLUTELY YUMMILICIOUS 😳😳😉



AND HIS EXPRESSIONS WHILE HE IS PLAYING WITH THE PAAYAL ARE TO DIE FOR 😊



REALLY WONDERING WHAT STRUCK SURYABHAN THAT HE DUCKED AT THE MOST PERFECT MOMENT, WHEN HE CAME ALL THE WAY TO BE PART OF THIS WOMEN'S RITUAL TO ACTUALLY SHOW JODHA HIS REFLECTION IN THE WATER 😆


Extreme good luck perhaps. He escaped with a chopped head. 🤣
ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: devkidmd

Can you PM me his name and phone# please? If you can.
Thanks
Devki



k will do..i am going there today to buy the rest and will get his card which has all the info!
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
My dear Preeti,

Thank you for such a thoughtful and informative response. I am half afraid of going badly off topic and getting this thread into trouble, for there can be no possible connection between JA and comparisons of international medical systems! So, though I have some more points to make, I shall confine myself here to just two.

One, emergency medical care does not guarantee survival, especially if the US patient is one of the 47 odd million with no health insurance. He/she will be shunted out in due course, and a collection agent sent after him to boot, for private hospitals have to collect fees after all. For this category, and even for those who have it - and I depend for knowledge about this on my brother, who is a US citizen - the stress can be very great. The number of medical bankruptcies in the US is very high, the highest in the developed world. In short, for the richest country in the world, the US public health system should be a lot, lot better than it is. In fact Medicare is being looted by private doctors. Ironically, the best public health system in the Western hemisphere, not fancy but very solid and truly universal, is still in Cuba!

Europe does much better, but in Europe, the best health (state funded) system is not in Scandinavia but in Switzerland, which has zero medical bankruptcies.

Two, as for India, our failings in this sector are manifold, we should be doing very much better, and the level of public health care varies from State to State. Pune, where I live now, is not of course in the north Indian rural belt, and it is a city. But it has several trust hospitals that not only have daily free OPDs in practically every branch of medicine for the urban poor, but they also send medical missions to the rural areas of Maharashtra near Pune for cataract surgeries for the very poor with follow up care, and to treat other kinds of illnesses. I have contributed to several of these missions and the treatment, which is completely free, and the follow up are both very good.

In any case, there can hardly be a comparison between emergency medical care in any part of the ultra rich US and in rural India. Or between the living conditions of the poor in India and those in Harlem or Appalachia. As a matter of fact, here too hospitals are obliged to take in emergency patients and accident victims regardless of the ability to pay,but I am not sure how well that works on the ground. As for an ambulance in Dharavi, it could never navigate in those lanes!

Finally, I am glad to know that Harlem is being spruced up. The last time I was there was 15 years ago, and I was scared, just as I was scared of trying the NY subway at 10 pm, and with good reason.

Shall I now add a line about Jodha Begum's all purpose lep skills and the Agra shifakhana to try and make this on topic?

Shyamala

ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: adiana12



Oh he was - very very lucky - he lost his head but managed to save his sanity - and his eardrums🤣



mero dono anmol behne back with a bang😆🤗😆
ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: adiana12



Behna this is the point where Begumsa starts lying to herself 😉 😛🤣



khushi behna jalal ka jalwa all the way😳..btw can anyone make me understand if begumsa was in love with suryabhaan or yun hi kabhi kbhi mere dil main khayal aata hai...😆

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