Jodha Akbar discussion corner! - Page 29

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Originally posted by: sashashyam

Bye for now, folks! I will be discussing the Saturday episode No. 6 tomorrow. Please do hit the Like button if you have survived this one in good shape!

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala

THANK YOU SHYAMALA AUNTY FOR YET ANOTHER GREAT WRITE UP.

FRANKLY FOR ME EPI 5 WAS AN INTOLERABLE OVERDOSE OF THE AAMERIS. THE FAIR ITSELF SEEMED LIKE A MISH MASH, BUT LACKED IN VISUAL APPEAL AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID THE JEWELLERY WAS SAD TO SAY THE LEAST. GAVE ME A CHANCE TO REMINISCE ABOUT THE TANISHQ JEWELLERY SPECIALLY MADE FOR JA FILM 😉 WHERE EACH PIECE WAS PERFECT

THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT I WANTED TO MENTION -

APAPRT FROM JALAL AND MAHAM, ALL ACTORS WHO ARE EVEN HALFWAY DECENT PERFORMERS GOT OUT OF THE SHOW, AND QUITE QUICKLY - ABDUL, MOTI AND SMILEY. KHAN BABA, OF COURSE, WAS LOGICALLY EXITED. AND THE REST, ARE ALL ALMOST WOODEN FACED, WITH LITTLE, IF ANY, EXPRESSIONS - SALIMA, BHAGWANDAS, NEW MOTI, HAMIDA ETC. MAINAVATI IS KIND OF SAD TO SEE, AS ARE MUMEROUS OTHERS

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT I READ ABOUT THE JALAL HAMIDA SCENE FROM YOU. JALAL'S EXPRESSIONS WERE GREAT, WHILE HAMIDA'S WERE TOTALLY MISSING. SHE LOOKED NICE, EVEN YOUNGER, BUT PERFORMANCE WISE LACKING.

ALSO THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I HAVE SEEN THIS SCENE. TO ME AS A SCENE, PER SE, IT SEEMS FABULOUS, BUT SOMEHOW THE CVS FAILED TO CONTINUE SIMILAR SENTIMENTS BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON BEYOND THIS SCENE. THIS PRODS ME TO THINK THAT PROLLY THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THIS SCENE WAS TO SHOW HAMIDA LAMENTING ON HER SON'S "MENTAL CONDITION", DESPERATELY PRAYING FOR SOMEONE TO COME AND RESCUE HIM 😆

THE RAMAYANA REFERENCE WAS AMAZING, AND ALSO SOMETHING THAT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT.

Hamida banu actor is another one that struggled at a mere expression level and royalness.

Amazing pics Munni and Anjali 😳

Your posts on the episodes are amazing Shymala Aunty😃

No, no, my dear Prem, here you are getting tangled up in a contradiction.

See, I am, and I have always been discussing the serial episodes as they are, NOT the history behind the concept, or the real historical events as they should have been shown. It has always been the idea behind these episode analyses since mid-2013, and is the guiding principle in the IF. If this has been the main JA forum of old, we would have got this thread closed in no time, for discussing history outside the designated thread! I got a WL increase once for responding to Donjas about the siege of Chittor outside that thread

Even leaving aside such crippling restrictions, we cannot operate on the lines you are taking, though all the information you provide so painstakingly is fascinating and I love reading it. We cannot say so and so thing would never have happened between Jodha and Surajmal (though I am sure your take is the accurate one because of chronology), or that this Jalal should have been grateful that he was not abandoned by Humayun and Hamida and that so my take on the Shakti parallel is not appropriate.

I was talking of the Jalal and the Hamida we are shown here, in a brilliant scene that made my day, and for that Jalal, his abandonment, as he saw it, was a nasoor that never healed. It was the same core concept in Shakti, a nasoor caused due a misunderstanding that never healed. That the circumstances in both cases are quite different does not matter. The basic idea, of a chidlhood alienation that lasts into adult life, still holds.

As you say and as I knew, Jalal was close to and very respectful of his parents, and the warmth of his affection for his father is well shown even here. The incident about the palkhi that you have cited (I am sure Akbar was far stronger than the poor palkhi bearers!) only illustrates this. So such a scene as we watched here could never have been written if the CVs stayed close to history. But then I for one would have missed this scene very badly, for Rajat is superb here (as for Hamida Bano, to expect any serious acting from her is a nonstarter!).

In general, there is no point citing actual history and then lamenting that the serial is distorting it. It takes us nowhere at all!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: myviewprem

My idea is we cannot compare an AB shakti to akbar

shakti was kidnapped and his father refused to free an criminal

While for akbar it was other way his parents risked their life trekking to persia thru hot desert and changed their sect to get the support of persia to release akbar.

That was 16th century my dear, other kings would have married another 5-10 ladies had more sons and abondoned baby akbar and bakshi bano to their fate. But i guess humayun had enpough of losing his kids his elder daughter aqiqha was brutally raped and killed and thrown into river yamuna by sher shah suri after a night raid and his elder son al amin died of hunger in thar desert while running from sher shah forces.

I do not see any reason for akbar's hatred indeed he must be ever greatful to humayun and hamida for 100 lives for not abandoning him to his fate. And in real history indeed akbar was grateful to his parents, he often lamented that he could not serve his father and take care of him in old age because of his untimely death and he adored hamida and took nice care of her. There is one account of a catholic priest that said that once when hamida's palaki got struck in river akbar got down and carried it on his own shoulder as pall bearer. And mind you akbar was not a young man than he was father of kids(as this priest was appointed to teach murad bible). So Akbar was 35+ years when he did this. We can just imagine by this incident how much he loved and respected his own mother.

In serial to create drama they show akbar hating hamida and loving maham more.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Alakh,

That scene only shows the depth of Jalal's bitterness of over a decade at what he sees as his having been abandoned by his mother and left to the care of Maham Anga and Bairam Khan. That she had no choice is not an argument that a child will accept. And a grievance that is so deep-rooted in childhood takes a long time to be erased, and sometimes it can never be erased .

Remember Amitabh's younger version in Shakti? What he infers from the telephone call his father makes is mistaken, but he understands it as abandoment of him by his father for the sake of official duty. Now some children might be proud of such a father, but not this one. The grudge is never erased and his relationship with his father is soured for life.

Also, just as Dilip Kumar's character in Shakti never tries to explain to his son exactly what he was trying to do, similarly here too, Hamida Banu does not seem to be explaining how hard it was for her to give up her son even for temporarily, and how she was forced to do it.

So I do not think the scene was OTT. It was a mindblowing bit of acting by Rajat, and in fact it was this scene and the one with Abdul in Episode 4 that made me decide to stay on!

Shyamala Aunty

Thank you, Vinita, and you have got it in one about Bairam Khan. He simply could not let go. Also, the actor is now beginning to adopt expressions that are too fixed, probably to heighten the effect, and he goes too far. He begins to look maniacal at times.

Your take on the conversion angle is interesting, but if Bharmal was so keen on this marriage as he apparently was ( see myviewprem's interesting summary of the goings on that led to this in his response above to smartfotographie) I wonder if he would have dared to ask Jodha to make such a request which could have broken the whole marriage proposal. It was a radical request, or condition, for those days.

But yes, I am told that she stayed a Hindu all her life. Given this, it is curious that she had herself buried. They say it was to stay close to Akbar even after death, but for a Hindu, such an idea would be alien, as we believe that the soul escapes its mortal confines after death and the body is meaningless thereafter

Shyamala

Originally posted by: vinitaj27

Thanx shyamala ji for ur valuable insight on my fav serial. I am not getting to watch the serial right now coz of office work but hopefully will be able to catchup soon. I loved the jalal they showed initially as he was cliser to how a king should be. The arrogance the swagger the ego all added up to his persona. I wish they had kept a bit of it till the end.
As for bairam khan i think he did love jalal n was loyal to him as he was a major force behind keeping the young king safe n train him well but as they say power corrupts. I think the issue with him was that he couldnt let go. For him jalal always remained a child he had trained n he could never understand that it was time to let him fly the nest sort of.
As for jodha n her conditions i m sure she must have not kept any conditions but bharmal must have requested to let her keep her religion and asked jalal to let her remain a hindu coz of which she did remain one till her death. I think it was the fact that she was so different from what jalal was surrounded with in his growing up years n rest of his wives that made her stand out for jalal initially.

My dear Shreya,

What a lovely set of comments on my post! Thank you!

My minor supplementary comments are in blue.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: sp108

Thank you, my dear Nonie. Do stay with us for the rest of them as well!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Nonie12345

Your posts on the episodes are amazing Shymala Aunty😃

My dear Lavanya,

I am with you re: the overdose of the Ameris. I would add all that horrible fake jewellery! It was padding, meant for providing local colour, and can be fast forwarded if you are watching from a recording. But the Amer palace set is impressive, courtesy Nitin Desai.

As for Hamida, my dear, no one ever claimed that she could act! She and Bhagwan Das, and even Salima Begum, fall into the same category.. But in that one shot, she looked really desolate. Her best in the whole serial, in fact!

As for the lack of follow up to this marvellous little scene, and the consequent lack of connect between this one and the scenes of mother and son that followed, there is still alienation shown right up to the departure of Bairam Khan, Also Hamida is never there to console Jalal after Bairam Khan's killing or the death of Ruqaiya's baby, whereas Maham is there with him all along.

I am glad you liked the reference to the Ramayana.It occurred to me when I was re-watching this segment yesterday.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala

THANK YOU SHYAMALA AUNTY FOR YET ANOTHER GREAT WRITE UP.

FRANKLY FOR ME EPI 5 WAS AN INTOLERABLE OVERDOSE OF THE AAMERIS. THE FAIR ITSELF SEEMED LIKE A MISH MASH, BUT LACKED IN VISUAL APPEAL AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID THE JEWELLERY WAS SAD TO SAY THE LEAST. GAVE ME A CHANCE TO REMINISCE ABOUT THE TANISHQ JEWELLERY SPECIALLY MADE FOR JA FILM 😉 WHERE EACH PIECE WAS PERFECT

THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT I WANTED TO MENTION -

APAPRT FROM JALAL AND MAHAM, ALL ACTORS WHO ARE EVEN HALFWAY DECENT PERFORMERS GOT OUT OF THE SHOW, AND QUITE QUICKLY - ABDUL, MOTI AND SMILEY. KHAN BABA, OF COURSE, WAS LOGICALLY EXITED. AND THE REST, ARE ALL ALMOST WOODEN FACED, WITH LITTLE, IF ANY, EXPRESSIONS - SALIMA, BHAGWANDAS, NEW MOTI, HAMIDA ETC. MAINAVATI IS KIND OF SAD TO SEE, AS ARE MUMEROUS OTHERS

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT I READ ABOUT THE JALAL HAMIDA SCENE FROM YOU. JALAL'S EXPRESSIONS WERE GREAT, WHILE HAMIDA'S WERE TOTALLY MISSING. SHE LOOKED NICE, EVEN YOUNGER, BUT PERFORMANCE WISE LACKING.

ALSO THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I HAVE SEEN THIS SCENE. TO ME AS A SCENE, PER SE, IT SEEMS FABULOUS, BUT SOMEHOW THE CVS FAILED TO CONTINUE SIMILAR SENTIMENTS BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON BEYOND THIS SCENE. THIS PRODS ME TO THINK THAT PROLLY THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THIS SCENE WAS TO SHOW HAMIDA LAMENTING ON HER SON'S "MENTAL CONDITION", DESPERATELY PRAYING FOR SOMEONE TO COME AND RESCUE HIM 😆

THE RAMAYANA REFERENCE WAS AMAZING, AND ALSO SOMETHING THAT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT.