Yay! Finally Naina The Brave! But Still SELFISH - Page 3

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@ Sonia and Ruch

You are absolutely right. Naina is appearing heartless and that is what creating the disconnect.

N.B:

Many have commented that only a girl can understand Naina's problem. That's so wrong statement. Boys also understand the points. My question to such comments is that:

Just assume and put your best male friend or brother in the place of Sameer and being treated just like Naina by the girl in their life. Then ask your self and tell with utmost truth " Yes ! My friend or brother is completely wrong. He is not understanding the girls problem. What if the girl is treating him like a doormat. But he should still try to understand the higher thoughts of the Girl.

You won't be able to do so.

Selfish behaviour shines through. It has no gender preference. Your mind will warn you. It will tell you that your dear one is being taken for a granted and played around with the emotions. (Whether you accept that inner warning or not, it's up to you)

Hey R & R,

Originally posted by: rock&roll

Nice post Doc and even more interesting discussions.As usual,I enter the party late ...But here goes anyway 😆

Let us go into all your points one by one.😊

You said "Well, finally the character of Naina was shown to have some degree of courage. "

True...And I personally think that she had this courage all along.People called Naina a scaredy cat,but I had always maintained that it was a matter of time before she spoke up.She simply needed to be pushed to her breaking point.

Every human being has courage,but every human being also has a different capability to handle oppression and insults.Some fight back early,some fight back late,some never fight back when they are hurt,but start fighting back when their loved ones are hurt. A real life example would be that of a mother(and wife) who is abused at home.People feel sorry for her and call her weak since she doesn't retaliate to any abuse .She might never fight back when she is abused but touch her child and she will become a tigress.

Such people may appear weak but are actually mentally very very tough and strong.They carry the capability to handle , overcome and fight in any situation.But they choose their battles with care.In most scenarios they quietly accept their current reality,not because they lack the courage to fight but simply because their ability to handle pain and accept reality is far far higher than normal human beings. (btw,this ability normally comes from being /seeing continuous oppression which distorts reality) .Naina is one such person.She can be pushed far more than normal people and she will adjust very easily.But when she fights back,she is a force to be reckoned with.In Tamil,we have a saying "Sadhu mirandaal"(beware of the anger of the saint)😆

In another post(on rebels and logic) I had mentioned "Rebellion comes from a rush of blood or being pushed to the edge.It comes when the person concerned has little to lose and is willing to take a risk.Naina is a very logical person and her logical mind tells her that she shouldn't take up a fight till she has a reasonable chance of success"

This is what happened on the D day.Naina felt pushed to the edge when her chachaji(greater than God for her) was insulted.She anyway had little to lose as she disliked Sharad. The emotional part of her made her fume at Chachaji's insult.Her logical mind told her that incident gave her a reasonable chance of success at breaking the marriage.So she spoke up.Naina is a very courageous girl but her courage manifests openly only in rare cases.She appears weak but is very strong inside.

Now this shows that Naina is a very strong and patient person.For her,family comes above everything (as we all know).This makes Naina the ideal daughter.These are huge positive traits of Naina.

Now coming to your second point.

What if Sharad was a genuinely good guy?

You have left that point aside,but I am going to touch on it anyway😉 .If Sharad had been good guy,that would have been the end of Samaina.Naina would have married Sharad and moved on happily in life.Initially,her marriage would be a compromise but later she would have been very happy..So much for Sameer then

The story is not about the rise of Naina alone. It's a proclaimed love story where there is another character called Sameer.

So true...And that is why these virtues of Naina(though wonderful) have little value in a love story.After all,we are not here to see the story of an oppressed Naina fighting the system.We are here for Samaina. But for Naina currently there is only "Chachaina".Chachaji +Naina. Sam does not figure in her list ANYWHERE.At heart,she cares for Sameer and his welfare,but in action,she will do nothing about it.In other words,she does not care enough about Sameer to do anything for him.Being the practical person who is quick to accept reality,she really and truly has accepted that Sameer can and will never be a part of her life.She has done this with shocking speed and made peace with this reality of hers.For any boy in love,a person like Naina can be his worst nightmare.Nainas can ditch their Sameers at the drop of (Chachaji's) hat😉.

I completely agree with you when you say Naina is "extremely unreliable and troubled character. (when concerned to the person she is romantically involved with - Sameer).I also agree when you say "Sameer seems to be in a perpetual dreamland, where nothing else exists in his life other than Naina and adjusting to all the actions/decisions of Naina.".

It is sad but not completely unbelievable that reality has STILL not hit Sameer.Maybe,it will hit him after she turned down his proposal yesterday.But there are boys like Sameer who are completely oblivious to reality and still harbour hopes that their love will come back to them.At the first sight of the person they love,they forget all the hurt that this person has caused them and go back to them.The pull is magnetic and beyond their control.It is absolutely heartbreaking and heart wrenching to see Sameer and the likes of Sameer.I really really wish he comes to his senses soon(and this time for real).I really hope he moves on.

Regarding the statement- "Jab main Chacjaji ke Samman ke Liye Sameer aur uske pyaar ko chodh sakti hoon, then yeh Sharad kya cheej hai!".

I think you are reading too much into it.Naina is not proud that she has kicked out Sameer,but this statement definitely shows that she holds Chachaji waaay above Sameer.She is trying to say,that Chachaji is soo important to her that she put him above Sameer(her one and only true love).She is saying that if someone is above Sameer in her life,then that person is like God for her.So Sharad holds no chance in her life since he has insulted her God.

The statement simply answers your next question,"Where does Naina keep Sameer in her life?"

Answer:Below Chachaji and above everyone else.Now this is a tricky answer.This means that Sameer holds tremendous importance in her life since she has put him just below Chachaji(I think she puts Sameer above her dad,Taiji etc).In other words,if Chachaji agreed to Sameer and her relationship,she would marry him even if her dad and Taiji were against it.This shows that Sameer carries lot of value for her.BUT,Chachaji is above him.And Chachaji stands miles and miles above Sameer for her.She gives so much importance to Chachaji and what he thinks of her that she dare not even dream of going against him.Which means,she cannot even think of talking about Sameer to her Chachaji.And therein lies the problem.Sameer maybe above everyone else for her,but he still falls below Chachaji and every whim,thought,wish and command of Chachaji.

It is one thing to put a spouse or partner below one's parent in the list of priorities.Many people do that and it is absolutely fine.But the day a person starts putting every whim,wish,thought and unasked for desire of a parent above a spouse/partner ,then the relationship with the partner is practically over.This means that practically,the only person who exists in this person's life is the parent.Ditto for Naina,Chachaji is the ONLY PERSON in her life.Sameer may be just below Chachaji but chachaji figures from No 1- 1,000.So Sameer is at 1001(which is pretty meaningless).

Which brings us to your next point.Is Sameer disposable for her?Yes,of course.Priority No 1001 is not a priority at all,isn't it?He is certainly disposable. And he should accept it sooner rather than later.The only way he can jump to higher priority is if Chachaji accepts him.Best of Luck Sameer😆

Now coming to the second part(Thank you for quoting me😊).Some people(not all)who are oppressed/insulted from a more powerful person tend to do the same thing when they find power equations changing.In other words,they oppress/insult people with whom they feel more powerful.

Naina is definitely doing to Sameer what Taiji is doing to her.As I said in another post,Naina talks of being a puppet feeling like "Baith ja baith gayi,ghoom ja ghoom gayi ".But she is doing the same to Sameer

Pyar karo,kar liya

Bhool jao,Bhool gaya

Dost bano,Ban gaya

Isn't this what she is doing to Sameer.?She is not only not at all appreciative of his selfless love,but she is also using him (consciously and subconsciously).She loved him because she wanted to.She ditched him for Chachaji and her family.She became friends with him again for herself.Where does Sameer figure in all this?Nowehere...Naina is indeed the epitome of selfless love,but not love for Sameer.She is the epitome of selfess love for her family and Chachaji.She is,I repeat) the worst nightmare for a person in love and people like Naina should be avoided like the plague for a person in love.

Quoting from another reply of mine

In a more normal and realistic scenario,if the likes of Naina have any empathy and self conscience left,they should stay away from their Sameers. Having dumped him out of the blue one fine morning ,the least she can do is to stay away from him FOREVER.This will help him really move on and get over her(hopefully).By asking him to be her friend she is opening him up for more emotional torture.Every moment he spends with her ,he will relive all the years of their love.But wait,he is just a friend.So he shouldn't bring up these emotions!!!.But,being a normal human being he will start harbouring hopes of being with her again and getting married to her.But this time he cannot tell her that he has these hopes,because she has friendzoned him. His broken and barely mended heart will shatter all over again,but he cannot tell her because she has friendzoned him. Just like last time,she will not be there to pick up the broken pieces of his heart,but he can't tell Naina because she has friendzoned him.Friendship Zindabaad😕 😆.

I thought Naina left Sameer for his own good.I thought she didn't want to give him false hopes and hurt him .But isn't she doing EXACTLY the same thing now,all over again,in the garb of a friend.In fact,this time,it is worse.She will raise his hopes and shatter them and walk away and he dare not complain .This completely absolves her of any moral responsibility for his feelings,whatsoever. Now what happened to her oh so virtuous idea of dumping him for his own good.How come that idea suddenly vanished out of the window and a new and convenient logic for friendship took its place?And if this logic of friendship is so great,why didn't she offer it earlier to him?Instead of dumping him earlier,she could have offered to be his friend,right?Why didn't she?Answer:Because at that time she was not prepared for friendship.She would have found it difficult to be friends with him.But now,she has moved on much faster and is more stable than him.And she suddenly realised that she would never find a FRIEND like Sameer. A 100 Swatis and Hemas do not equal 1 Sameer.So she offered to be his friend.In a nutshell,his friendship didn't suit her then,so she dumped him.His friendship suits her now,so she extended a hand of friendship.Disgusting...

But wait a minute,this is in real life scenarios.In our fairy tale,our hero is

Prince charming and Mother Teresa rolled into one and our heroine is a cross between Cindrella and Sati Savitri.

I know you mentioned that we should not state this.But I am disgusted by Naina's behaviour towards Sameer.She claims to love him but has no empathy for him or understanding of his feelings.She justifies every action of hers towards Sameer very conveniently and Sameer(stupidly) agrees.She wants him to do for her,whatever she wants ,whenever she wants.And his happiness and moving on?That can take a walk in the park.

Is this 90s love?Not as far as I know...

To sum up,Are Naina and Sameer's chacaters realistic?Somewhat..Both characters are flawed.Sameer is too good,soft,selfless and sacrificing for his own good.He gets taken advantage of left,right and centre. He speaks his mind and accepts his mistakes openly.He is brave but wears his heart on his sleeve.He is naive,trusting and so optimistic that he breaks our hearts. Do such characters exist?Yes,but they are very rare... And they normally fall hard

Naina is the perfect daughter but the worst person to fall in love with.Naina is dutiful,obedient,patient,practical ,sacrificing and extremely mentally strong.She is the ideal daughter and will likely make the ideal wife.But she can also be selfish ,manipulative and fight back if the need arises and power equations change.She can change herself from dreams to reality at a wink and accept her reality and move on very fast.She does not dwell on the past.She has little empathy for the feelings of anyone other than her family.

Originally posted by: Dr.Don

Hey R & R,

What an amazing answer and analysis to the post. 👏

I guess you put a complete stop to the discussion that has been raging on on the selfishness of Naina (for which I received quiet a few flacks) in the most sensible manner.

You are absolutely right in saying: (my understanding of your post)

1. Naina is the perfect daughter to her family. Period ! No need to write any explanation. Nothing is more important for her than her immediate family and she can and will do anything for them (even if it means doing something that might hurt her)

2. Naina will make an ideal wife, one she settles in to marriage, (even if its not Sameer - that is something she can bypass if she has to). If required she will be order following, adjusting and silently going on with the marriage (whether she likes it or not) and eventually make the marriage work as she has that much patience and practicality.

3. However, considering how Naina has been presented in the previous multiple episodes and her approach towards Sameer, she is most definitely a very stressful choice for love (where Sameer is with the hopes to marry her).

Naina might love him but consciously or subconsciously, she keeps Sameer at the edge. If situations arise, then she can quickly switch over to the practical mode and push Sameer out completely.

"She can change herself from dreams to reality at a wink and accept her reality and move on very fast."

That's what she did with Sameer. Before Sameer could understand, the Naina train had left him with a rapid pace. That made him erratic, idiotic and desperate to even accept her friendship offer.

He even kept his self respect on doormat and proposed Naina again to be royally kicked where it hurts the most again.

So, as far as love affair is concerned (with the hopes of marriage), at present it seems that - Naina is not a good choice.

**********

Once again, great analysis R & R. I am sure all will agree with your views.

I had recently started watching YUDKBH. I watched all the episodes and currently flowing the current track through the forum. I am a silent reader of all your post Mr.Don. I agree with your thought process about the characters Naina and Sameer. However, the thing that is confusing for me is that we know the end up together eventually because the VOs have basically told us but how? I mean how can you redeem Naina's character it is beyond redeemable. I mean however the CVS decide to put them back together it will never make us forget the amount of torture Naina put Sameer through. How will we (the viewers) be convinced that Naina's love is even real after this track? The cvs have ruined naina's character. There is no turning back for her?

Originally posted by: sverma71

I had recently started watching YUDKBH. I watched all the episodes and currently flowing the current track through the forum. I am a silent reader of all your post Mr.Don. I agree with your thought process about the characters Naina and Sameer. However, the thing that is confusing for me is that we know the end up together eventually because the VOs have basically told us but how? I mean how can you redeem Naina's character it is beyond redeemable. I mean however the CVS decide to put them back together it will never make us forget the amount of torture Naina put Sameer through. How will we (the viewers) be convinced that Naina's love is even real after this track? The cvs have ruined naina's character. There is no turning back for her?

Yes that is What is creating the disconnect among many viewers who appreciated the character of Naina till today. Taking a choice for your family is not wrong. But, that is good for Naina and her family.

However, this is after all a story that is also about Sameer. Naina falling in to family issues is understandable. But the beheviour of the character towards Sameer is completely contrary and outright selfish in many ways which we have discussed in detail.

It had become a complete one side serving relation where Sameer has no say and is only doing what Naina in deciding depending on her family situation.

There can be various justifications for what is Naina doing and How she is behaving. But when taken in context of Sameer it is selfish. The guy seems to have been trapped with a wrong girl and her family.

Naina is a great daughter who can do any thing for her family including cold shouldering and ditching Sameer. The acceptance of Sameer depends only on the validation of Anand. Tomo what if Anand backtracks or any other Agarwal family member creats ruckus, Naina might again back out. Sameer will go mad.

Hence Naina might be great daughter but as far as Sameer is concerned Naina is not good or feasible for him, considerinng the present track.

This is where the writers have failed. In their attempt to show the great sacrificing oppressed Naina, they simultaneously created a boy's worst headache when it comes to love. That's is Sameer's predicament. He is in love with a girl who is tall in dialogues of love but not standing now with him by citing some excuse and justification.

That's why you, me and many others are feeling the disconnect with the character of Naina.