General Discussion thread #1 - Page 114

Originally posted by: Pete15rogmourey

I don't think there's any deep reason for Drona to side with Duryodhan other than the reason you mentioned ...he might've een 2 sides and picked one , i think Duryodhan 's army was bigger right? Maybe he thought Dury would win and let him side with the winning side....

Omg you were called adharmi and Duryodhan lover? You're surrounded by people who are really passionate about MB ig ( not that being passionate about MB is wrong but this is such an extreme reaction to call anyone as adharmi and all ) I've told some people including my mom about how Karn ordered VH and how Yudhisthir was wrong in Duyt, sure they are shocked for a second but after a couple of mins they get bored with the topic and say "so be it , what use is this extra knowledge going to do?" and move on to the next topic of discussion. Maybe they do it out of denial of accepting that their "heroes" are wrong but personally i think no one in my age group or my family is actually interested in these stuff except for me ( they have their personal Mahabarat fights to worry about🤣) ...so i don't even have anyone to talk about these stuff except over here in I-F....

True more than Duryodhan, Shakuni had to bear the brunt for everthing when he barely did anything...

As far as Drona not helping Draupadi is concerned;

Everyone in MB were misogynist and that's how people were back then , they veiwed women as status symbol and nothing else.......they took a board game waay too seriously and followed the rules to the teet...also he might've not helped her for the reason you stated... wish Vyasa had given explaination for these sort of stuff ornwere they lost in translation?

In SPMB during the VH sequence they went so far to show that even Bheeshm and Vidur curse Duryodhan for what he was about to do 🤦

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Yes we want things to happen in some way, but that's not how actually it happens in real life. That is the reason why probably we want our ideal fantasies to come true in fiction. The truth is that there is 90% chance that any girl/woman in Ruhi's place(be she he from a lower class or an upper class), will accept her husband if he tries to return(we have had cases of Amitabh Bachchan Jaya Bhaduri Rekha) but that doesn't change the fact that it's not what is right. This isnt what I want in fiction, fiction for me is an escape from reality an ideal world, where people do what they should do(either good or bad) not how they actually would behave. That is why we want happy endings though hardly there are happy endings in real life. I was annoyed at DB's over fanboying Yuvika, but his response post the AV instance for next two episodes made me further sad and I wanted him to become his normal self again although we all know that's something which will never happen in reality....

The reason I objected your thoughts on RuJay wasn't because I felt it shouldn't happen or because I wanted to judge you, but simply because I didn't want this wrong precedence to be shown in TV as something ideal... I am still not completely against RuJay but want it only if DJ understands this relationship and not because he needs a rebound...

At least in fiction I don't want men to have an option of enjoying outside and having a wife in house to fall upon, when and how needed

Will reply on Drona part in another post...

Originally posted by: Moonks

It’s not only ITV, I am talking about in general like I told you there are poetries on these characters and those who own the channels claim that they know the real deal, they also rebukes ITV to support their claims, I am talking about those people who claims that they want to aware the world about real MB, but ends up doing the same thing like ITV

Oh yes I got it, there are many such Youtubers and those hurt me equally. Undoubtedly Drona and Bheeshm were great men of their times, but they weren't certainly infallible nor were they epitome of selflessness, and most importantly there were "men of their times", we can't and shouldn't make them relevant today. The problem I guess is these Youtubers, even if they know can't go against the faith general mankind have on these, the same issues which we have in accepting... That is the reason why I openly never say these things on my Youtube channel or podcasts.

Also agreed Bheeshm and Drona stayed silent at dice hall, but they were not the perpetrators like Karna or Duryodhan, so I really don't think we shall keep the silent spectators and doers in same category.

Originally posted by: Moonks

Thank God you mentioned about this winning side, there is a narrative that just because Pandavas win, we believe that it was Arjun who was at the good side and Krishna is the God, if it were Kauravas then Duryodhan would have been at the good side and Karna was the one giving Geet Gyan, basically it is famous historical narrative that winner writes the history, so we are reading MB from Pandavas pov

This I am not sure how much is true (especially in case of Mahabharat), I mean yes winning the war, did bring some narrative settings towards Pandavas, but Vyasa was more of less narrating the happenings as it happened. I do think Duryodhan and Kauravas were worse when you compare with Pandavas, though latter weren't saints either.

However I will still not say that this was any Dharmayudhha that established Dharma into the society. I mean within 3 generations, Janmejaya conducted the Nagamedha yagya which if anything was a Holocaust, what worse would have the descendants of Duryodhan (if existed) done?

The change probably what happens due to this winning is your activates are being looked upon differently. For example Arjun abducted Subhadra and Duryodhan abducted Bhanumati. While you will see so much justification for Arjun's abduction, but absolutely nothing for Duryodhan. Later texts like Sreemad Bhagwatam tried to justify Arjun's abduction by statements like Subhadra had started liking Arjun but couldn't say it to anyone or that Balram wanted her to marry Duryodhan, like that makes abduction any better, and now the present day makers start narration like she was the one who rode the chariot, to completely remove the abduction angle.

Even if history records you proper, losers tend to also start losing their good attributes as the days progress and other bad qualities slowly start getting attached to you. You know Al Bareuni has mentioned that locals believe that long back Duryodhan had settled many Brahmins in Takshila, who were asked to impart free education to anyone who is unable to pay and these Brahmins were patronized by the Hastinapur state. That small establishment slowly grew into the great Takshshila university, which later got destroyed. While there is no evidence of mention of this part except location traditions (which in itself got lost later once the people in that area became Muslims), but probably there were some really good things that Duryodhan did, which never got recorded since he was a loser, his victory would have ensured that his good deeds are more highlighted....

The importance what Abhimanyu have is because his grandson was listening the story, else no other Pandav son (except Ghatochkach who was too great to be ignored) are actually discussed at length. Also Karna's son Vrishsena nearly died the same way as Abhimanyu after being surrounded by four sides, and ensuring no one else enters, He was about to kill Nakul after having defeated him conclusively when Arjun intervened and started attacking him and mutilated his body to aggravate Karna but not many even know his name today....

@bold this I really doubt, Krishna was undoubtedly the most selfless among all present, however he still had his resources split, he was the father in law of Duryodhan's daughter, and had given his army to Duryodhan. Even if they had lost, Krishna would have been a great person in history, because there isn't much to go against him at all. But yes maybe Balram would have been more important than Krishna.

P.S. Duryodhanumati this word was suggested to me by IF while I was typing the response, I copied it since this could be a good Jodi name for them

Sorry for this long response

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

This I am not sure how much is true (especially in case of Mahabharat), I mean yes winning the war, did bring some narrative settings towards Pandavas, but Vyasa was more of less narrating the happenings as it happened. I do think Duryodhan and Kauravas were worse when you compare with Pandavas, though latter weren't saints either.

However I will still not say that this was any Dharmayudhha that established Dharma into the society. I mean within 3 generations, Janmejaya conducted the Nagamedha yagya which if anything was a Holocaust, what worse would have the descendants of Duryodhan (if existed) done?

The change probably what happens due to this winning is your activates are being looked upon differently. For example Arjun abducted Subhadra and Duryodhan abducted Bhanumati. While you will see so much justification for Arjun's abduction, but absolutely nothing for Duryodhan. Later texts like Sreemad Bhagwatam tried to justify Arjun's abduction by statements like Subhadra had started liking Arjun but couldn't say it to anyone or that Balram wanted her to marry Duryodhan, like that makes abduction any better, and now the present day makers start narration like she was the one who rode the chariot, to completely remove the abduction angle.

Even if history records you proper, losers tend to also start losing their good attributes as the days progress and other bad qualities slowly start getting attached to you. You know Al Bareuni has mentioned that locals believe that long back Duryodhan had settled many Brahmins in Takshila, who were asked to impart free education to anyone who is unable to pay and these Brahmins were patronized by the Hastinapur state. That small establishment slowly grew into the great Takshshila university, which later got destroyed. While there is no evidence of mention of this part except location traditions (which in itself got lost later once the people in that area became Muslims), but probably there were some really good things that Duryodhan did, which never got recorded since he was a loser, his victory would have ensured that his good deeds are more highlighted....

The importance what Abhimanyu have is because his grandson was listening the story, else no other Pandav son (except Ghatochkach who was too great to be ignored) are actually discussed at length. Also Karna's son Vrishsena nearly died the same way as Abhimanyu after being surrounded by four sides, and ensuring no one else enters, He was about to kill Nakul after having defeated him conclusively when Arjun intervened and started attacking him and mutilated his body to aggravate Karna but not many even know his name today....

@bold this I really doubt, Krishna was undoubtedly the most selfless among all present, however he still had his resources split, he was the father in law of Duryodhan's daughter, and had given his army to Duryodhan. Even if they had lost, Krishna would have been a great person in history, because there isn't much to go against him at all. But yes maybe Balram would have been more important than Krishna.

P.S. Duryodhanumati this word was suggested to me by IF while I was typing the response, I copied it since this could be a good Jodi name for them

Sorry for this long response

Ok i didn't know that part about Karna's son , i learned something new today....also if anyone thinks practically they would know that in war the soilders are supposed to disarm the enimies and kill them Abhimanyu was a kid i agree but wveryone in war dies in a simillar way ; unarmed.....i think BRC and SPMB had a great role in propagating "killing unarmed is wrong" lol then no one from both the sides would've died....

A year before SPMB started the production company which produced Sanjivani and DMG produced Mahabharat in Tamil ( even i was shocked). Their version was more or less accurate , started with Abhimanyu's grandson wanting to end all evil on earth and a sage narrating the entire MB as a flashback...shame many people drifted away from that show since SPMB was way too flashy than that

Coming baxck to MB i don't get why it is soooooo distorted thoughout history....even Ramayan is less distorted compared to this , my grandparents narrated me the agnidandh incident when i was a child , i remembered hearing about it after reading your post on that , we atleast manage to get real facts based on Ramayan but MB is one giant cesspool of interpolations....I'm sure that no one from my generation would even know that Duryodhan had children and he was even married....I'm pretty sure they wouldn't even know that Krishna had children....it's sad that Duryodhan's good deeds are erased because he was defeated.....even i always thought why the other children of Pandavas or other wives of Pandavas were nevet even mentioned or even focused upon properly , it was always Draupadi , Shubbadra and Hidimba....

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Oh yes I got it, there are many such Youtubers and those hurt me equally. Undoubtedly Drona and Bheeshm were great men of their times, but they weren't certainly infallible nor were they epitome of selflessness, and most importantly there were "men of their times", we can't and shouldn't make them relevant today. The problem I guess is these Youtubers, even if they know can't go against the faith general mankind have on these, the same issues which we have in accepting... That is the reason why I openly never say these things on my Youtube channel or podcasts.

Also agreed Bheeshm and Drona stayed silent at dice hall, but they were not the perpetrators like Karna or Duryodhan, so I really don't think we shall keep the silent spectators and doers in same category.

This is FlauntPessimism's channel ;

https://youtu.be/GtrWpLNnuGE

Do let me know if the FF Archive is up to date, thank you🙃

Originally posted by: oh_nakhrewaali

Do let me know if the FF Archive is up to date, thank you🙃

I think these 2 FF should be added;

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/vanshaj/5335373/jealous-neivika-os

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/vanshaj/5335369/vanshaj-os

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

This I am not sure how much is true (especially in case of Mahabharat), I mean yes winning the war, did bring some narrative settings towards Pandavas, but Vyasa was more of less narrating the happenings as it happened. I do think Duryodhan and Kauravas were worse when you compare with Pandavas, though latter weren't saints either.

However I will still not say that this was any Dharmayudhha that established Dharma into the society. I mean within 3 generations, Janmejaya conducted the Nagamedha yagya which if anything was a Holocaust, what worse would have the descendants of Duryodhan (if existed) done?

The change probably what happens due to this winning is your activates are being looked upon differently. For example Arjun abducted Subhadra and Duryodhan abducted Bhanumati. While you will see so much justification for Arjun's abduction, but absolutely nothing for Duryodhan. Later texts like Sreemad Bhagwatam tried to justify Arjun's abduction by statements like Subhadra had started liking Arjun but couldn't say it to anyone or that Balram wanted her to marry Duryodhan, like that makes abduction any better, and now the present day makers start narration like she was the one who rode the chariot, to completely remove the abduction angle.

Even if history records you proper, losers tend to also start losing their good attributes as the days progress and other bad qualities slowly start getting attached to you. You know Al Bareuni has mentioned that locals believe that long back Duryodhan had settled many Brahmins in Takshila, who were asked to impart free education to anyone who is unable to pay and these Brahmins were patronized by the Hastinapur state. That small establishment slowly grew into the great Takshshila university, which later got destroyed. While there is no evidence of mention of this part except location traditions (which in itself got lost later once the people in that area became Muslims), but probably there were some really good things that Duryodhan did, which never got recorded since he was a loser, his victory would have ensured that his good deeds are more highlighted....

The importance what Abhimanyu have is because his grandson was listening the story, else no other Pandav son (except Ghatochkach who was too great to be ignored) are actually discussed at length. Also Karna's son Vrishsena nearly died the same way as Abhimanyu after being surrounded by four sides, and ensuring no one else enters, He was about to kill Nakul after having defeated him conclusively when Arjun intervened and started attacking him and mutilated his body to aggravate Karna but not many even know his name today....

@bold this I really doubt, Krishna was undoubtedly the most selfless among all present, however he still had his resources split, he was the father in law of Duryodhan's daughter, and had given his army to Duryodhan. Even if they had lost, Krishna would have been a great person in history, because there isn't much to go against him at all. But yes maybe Balram would have been more important than Krishna.

P.S. Duryodhanumati this word was suggested to me by IF while I was typing the response, I copied it since this could be a good Jodi name for them

Sorry for this long response

@red I have read many bad things about Balram, like he is not what we think he is, some people believe him to be the 9th incarnation of lord Vishnu while some thinks that he is most arrogant, egotistic and what not.

@green did not know about this, it’s really sad that Pandavas bad side is given justification and Duryodhan’s good is being hidden so their good can prevail but then at the end of the day it’s the result of any war, winner creates history and those who lost are not remembered.