History, Psychology and Politics

Cleo12345 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 11 years ago
#1



I haven't seen the epi today but read the update...I was kind of expecting it , still couldn't help feel disappointed with the progression of the story.To me, this is going beyond just distortion of history or misportrayal of characters. My understanding is that majority of people feel that way. But what can we do? Are we too tolarant ?

Imagine Ekta Kapoor showing the courageous King Leonides as a coward in a movie based on their famous battle of Thermopylae with the Persian king Xerxes.(Remeber, Gerald Bulter's movie 300...Spartans are also known in history to be exceptional warriors like the Samurai's, Ninja's and Rajputs) ...I don't think that the modern descendents of Spartans( I know a few) , will accept that version of history. Just like us, people in the west are also very proud and fiercely protective of their culture and history. I respect this trait in everyone. Such a portrayl of a respected historical character in a movie will certainly creat a storm in that part of the world. I wont be surprised if it is even gets banned in there within days. I also dont think that adding a disclaimer will make a difference.
( I'm not referring to the comedy versions here...people know the difference) .

I am unable call this progression in storyline of JA as any form of freedom of expression. Not when it distorts history to this extent. If Balaji and Zee want to show this kind of story, then please change the name of the characters. And we have to be fair and speak on behalf of both Mughals and Rajputs. My little nephews, 9 and 13, in the US love desi historical dramas and believe every word of it. It is very time consuming to explain that certain things didn't really happen. Like, Akbar was not this stupid...
How did Heer kanwari get the new name Jodha? ...because more than 100 yrs ago, a historian made a mistake and called her Jodha. The name stuck. It is not easy to change it in books now.
Moral of the story...any form of misportrayal of history( written version or television ) has the potential to really change history in the way our future generations will see it.

So the recent tracks were not popular...infact, people are very critical in their comments. Then , why are the CV's stobbornly showing it? They are not trying to torture us and probably know that most people don't enjoy this kind of negativity where a self respecting woman is humiliated repeatedly. Or an intellegent man is shown to have a sudden and unexplained cognitive decline. He suffers too... Ninety five percent of the people on this planet are not sadists. The Trps may sometimes go up/ stay up because of a strange phenomenon...people get restless after watching a character they have grown to admire, suffer so much. They desperately want that character to be happy, get out of that situation and finally triumph. In some well directed shows and movies, people may actually start identifying with the suffering character and subconsciously are unable to abandon them at that point( by stop watching the show) They want to see some light before they quit...And they continue watching and hoping...watching and hoping...watching and hoping...finally, misunderstandings are cleared ...the suffering ends...and wow, romance begins..everyone was longing to see that...but if the mushy mushy romance is prolonged...things start getting boring again...the producers fear of drop in trps...villian/ vamp get back in action... and the suffering is back with a bang...if they couldn't find real incidents to show that kind of tearjerking drama...they creat one...the cycle continues and we are trapped.

I have read that some people feel that because of the disclaimer and argument of freedom of expression, , Ms Kapoor and company can get away by showing anything... Any lawyers in the forum please free to correct me here...My understanding is that that putting a disclaimer can help in case of a lawsuit in future but the makers of show can still be held accountable and asked to offer an explanation if they distort facts. I dont think that a good lawyer will let them get away by using the fiction excuse. How will they explain the use of real names, places and incidents to popularize the show...can they be allowed to have their cake and eat it too? So far it is happening...will it continue forever...hope not...Preservation of history and culture is important to most people. So I don't see a disclaimer as something that absolves the production house of all responsibilities.

I did some research on some international films and books that were banned for historical, religious or cultural reasons. I wanted to see if they had disclaimers/ explainations/ statements when questioned about abouthnticity or misportrayl. Most did...I also read an article on the web ( not sure how reliable) on a Hindi movie from the 70's which was about a female politician. Inspite of the director and producers going to all lengths to say that that it was a fictional character( they did not even use her name)... The film still ran into trouble and wasn't fully released till that politician was out of power. I think most forum members were not on this planet in the 70's but if there is anyone who remembers this, please write something to enlighten us.

I am deliberately not taking names of movies or books here as I don't want to unintentionally offend anyone. But, if you are interested to know more about this, I'll be happy to send you the links. So, based on what I understand, I want to assure my forum friends that having a disclaimer does not mean we cant question them.

To support my theory further if anyone goes for a surgical procedure, the doctor makes you sign a document that you as a patient are aware of all the possible negative outcomes including death. It certainly helps in case of a lawsuit otherwise why would they waste so much paper. But, it does not take away the patient's right to question or sue the doctor if there is a negative outcome. If found guilty, the doctor will be punished.


My take on the protests...in a democratic country people have the right to protest. As long as they are not breaking a law...most politicians, both good and bad ones...not just in India but all around the world started their careers as protestors..once they are successful, you'll be surprised how soon the term changes to ' social activists' . And I wouldn't label all of them as 'unemployed' or ' don't they have better things to do'. They may strongly feel about issues related to their ancestors. Busy and employed people protest as well...remember..lok pal bill...Delhi gang rape...mandal commission. I'll use my own example, I have never been unemployed but did actively participate in student protests on an issue I supported. We may or may not agree with their reasons or manner of protest but our country's constitution gives them the right to do it ( of course, they have to respect the law). Dont be too shocked if one of these protestors becomes cabinet minister in future😊


I enjoy watching Bollywood movies. Sometimes, the reviews/ friends say...' do go and watch the movie...you'll enjoy it but don't look for logic. Leave your brains outside the theater...I applied this advice and enjoyed watching/ rewatching some of my favorite Govinda movies... I can't apply this to history based shows. It unfair to expect them to make it a boring documentary style show.. Some masala is needed...just don't throw the whole masaladaani in. 😊

Created

Last reply

Replies

27

Views

4.2k

Users

12

Likes

103

Frequent Posters

history_geek thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 11 years ago
#2
An entirely different take and a mature one. Your multidimensional approach to this issue is praiseworthy. The points raised here are many times raised on the forum before also. Only difference, this time, it does makes sense. I agree with the examples you have quoted from history. Just think what 'may' happen if someone starts showing Darius as stupid vis a vis Alexander.!! Imagine the protest the Persian Gulf will erupt into.!! Though Alexander won but Darius was an exceptional warrior as well. A fact can't be negated. Those people out there love their culture. Best example being the Chinese in America, as you mentioned sometime back also..

Also, i am agreeing to the fact, what will the present generation feel, seeing the portrayal of these historical characters. A princess eloping ? This is sarcastic..!! Yes, for me it was..!! As you mentioned, I also found it hard to explain EVEN to my college friends that nothing like that is heard of in history.!!. Atleast not on THIS Earth...

As for protestors, i do agree regarding the transition from protestor to a legislator. Can't call 'ALL' of them jobless...!!. History is replete with examples, be it, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Lenin, or many legends from French and American Revolution, etc. They names are living till now.. We have such examples in India as well..
But the thing with the protestors against JA is that they protest against the name of show MAJORLY. Why don't they raise their voice when the those same people for whom they claim to protest are shown in bad light..!..?.. I was dumbstruck seeing Bharmal shown a traitor..!.. Showing Heera degraded or showing Akbar stupid to such an extent is 'holy' crap..! I agree Akbar was under excessive influence of Maham till she died, resulting in the famous Petticoat Government till 1564. But, this time, in present track CV's are deliberately roping MA and causing all possible damage to these characters...!! Atleast, tone down this treatment..

I am not from historical BG as far as studies are concerned. But, m highly interested in our culture and heritage, and hence personally went to all depths to find what our REAL history was like. Foreign historians have left no stone unturned to proclaim us backward.. Take Greek sources- they call chandragupta maurya's army as a band of robbers..!! If that is the case, what about greek army in the battle with Darius..?? Britishers defamed Mughal history. And, did not even leave the rajputs in this process, and consequently even gave new theories regarding their origin!. See the image of Ghori and Prithviraj chauhan in Afghanistan.. Ghori is their hero and Prithviraj is ***.!!! We have countless examples for this. Ending abruptly, due to lack of time, but a nice take from you... 😊
Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago
NandiniRaizadaa thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Trailblazer Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 11 years ago
#3
A very good post. The issues raised by you are totally valid and justified, most people who are ignorant of the history will take all this as the truth and that can be dangerous . I agree about the protestors. But I think what the protestors say is that they are against the name of the show why don't they look into the story distortion going on ,
Anyway hope this track ends soon
Akanksha_33 thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: Cleo12345




I haven't seen the epi today but read the update...I was kind of expecting it , still couldn't help feel disappointed with the progression of the story.To me, this is going beyond just distortion of history or misportrayal of characters. My understanding is that majority of people feel that way. But what can we do? Are we too tolarant ?

Imagine Ekta Kapoor showing the courageous King Leonides as a coward in a movie based on their famous battle of Thermopylae with the Persian king Xerxes.(Remeber, Gerald Bulter's movie 300...Spartans are also known in history to be exceptional warriors like the Samurai's, Ninja's and Rajputs) ...I don't think that the modern descendents of Spartans( I know a few) , will accept that version of history. Just like us, people in the west are also very proud and fiercely protective of their culture and history. I respect this trait in everyone. Such a portrayl of a respected historical character in a movie will certainly creat a storm in that part of the world. I wont be surprised if it is even gets banned in there within days. I also dont think that adding a disclaimer will make a difference.
( I'm not referring to the comedy versions here...people know the difference) .

I am unable call this progression in storyline of JA as any form of freedom of expression. Not when it distorts history to this extent. If Balaji and Zee want to show this kind of story, then please change the name of the characters. And we have to be fair and speak on behalf of both Mughals and Rajputs. My little nephews, 9 and 13, in the US love desi historical dramas and believe every word of it. It is very time consuming to explain that certain things didn't really happen. Like, Akbar was not this stupid...
How did Heer kanwari get the new name Jodha? ...because more than 100 yrs ago, a historian made a mistake and called her Jodha. The name stuck. It is not easy to change it in books now.
Moral of the story...any form of misportrayal of history( written version or television ) has the potential to really change history in the way our future generations will see it.

So the recent tracks were not popular...infact, people are very critical in their comments. Then , why are the CV's stobbornly showing it? They are not trying to torture us and probably know that most people don't enjoy this kind of negativity where a self respecting woman is humiliated repeatedly. Or an intellegent man is shown to have a sudden and unexplained cognitive decline. He suffers too... Ninety five percent of the people on this planet are not sadists. The Trps may sometimes go up/ stay up because of a strange phenomenon...people get restless after watching a character they have grown to admire, suffer so much. They desperately want that character to be happy, get out of that situation and finally triumph. In some well directed shows and movies, people may actually start identifying with the suffering character and subconsciously are unable to abandon them at that point( by stop watching the show) They want to see some light before they quit...And they continue watching and hoping...watching and hoping...watching and hoping...finally, misunderstandings are cleared ...the suffering ends...and wow, romance begins..everyone was longing to see that...but if the mushy mushy romance is prolonged...things start getting boring again...the producers fear of drop in trps...villian/ vamp get back in action... and the suffering is back with a bang...if they couldn't find real incidents to show that kind of tearjerking drama...they creat one...the cycle continues and we are trapped.

I have read that some people feel that because of the disclaimer and argument of freedom of expression, , Ms Kapoor and company can get away by showing anything... Any lawyers in the forum please free to correct me here...My understanding is that that putting a disclaimer can help in case of a lawsuit in future but the makers of show can still be held accountable and asked to offer an explanation if they distort facts. I dont think that a good lawyer will let them get away by using the fiction excuse. How will they explain the use of real names, places and incidents to popularize the show...can they be allowed to have their cake and eat it too? So far it is happening...will it continue forever...hope not...Preservation of history and culture is important to most people. So I don't see a disclaimer as something that absolves the production house of all responsibilities.

I did some research on some international films and books that were banned for historical, religious or cultural reasons. I wanted to see if they had disclaimers/ explainations/ statements when questioned about abouthnticity or misportrayl. Most did...I also read an article on the web ( not sure how reliable) on a Hindi movie from the 70's which was about a female politician. Inspite of the director and producers going to all lengths to say that that it was a fictional character( they did not even use her name)... The film still ran into trouble and wasn't fully released till that politician was out of power. I think most forum members were not on this planet in the 70's but if there is anyone who remembers this, please write something to enlighten us.

I am deliberately not taking names of movies or books here as I don't want to unintentionally offend anyone. But, if you are interested to know more about this, I'll be happy to send you the links. So, based on what I understand, I want to assure my forum friends that having a disclaimer does not mean we cant question them.

To support my theory further if anyone goes for a surgical procedure, the doctor makes you sign a document that you as a patient are aware of all the possible negative outcomes including death. It certainly helps in case of a lawsuit otherwise why would they waste so much paper. But, it does not take away the patient's right to question or sue the doctor if there is a negative outcome. If found guilty, the doctor will be punished.


My take on the protests...in a democratic country people have the right to protest. As long as they are not breaking a law...most politicians, both good and bad ones...not just in India but all around the world started their careers as protestors..once they are successful, you'll be surprised how soon the term changes to ' social activists' . And I wouldn't label all of them as 'unemployed' or ' don't they have better things to do'. They may strongly feel about issues related to their ancestors. Busy and employed people protest as well...remember..lok pal bill...Delhi gang rape...mandal commission. I'll use my own example, I have never been unemployed but did actively participate in student protests on an issue I supported. We may or may not agree with their reasons or manner of protest but our country's constitution gives them the right to do it ( of course, they have to respect the law). Dont be too shocked if one of these protestors becomes cabinet minister in future😊


I enjoy watching Bollywood movies. Sometimes, the reviews/ friends say...' do go and watch the movie...you'll enjoy it but don't look for logic. Leave your brains outside the theater...I applied this advice and enjoyed watching/ rewatching some of my favorite Govinda movies... I can't apply this to history based shows. It unfair to expect them to make it a boring documentary style show.. Some masala is needed...just don't throw the whole masaladaani in. 😊

👏
dlip thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#5

Bravo!

We can wake up someone who is sleeping but can't who is pretending.

I guess Hindi serial writers (creatives, they are called😆) are doing this for every historical and even mythological serial. And we sensible viewers will be left with no option than stop watching it.
Edited by deepa911 - 11 years ago
Heeralicious thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 11 years ago
#6
Superb Post!!!👏
Some masala is needed...just don't throw the whole masaladaani in. 🤣 👍🏼
Donjas thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#7
I enjoyed reading your post. Thought provoking.
elasingh thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 11 years ago
#8
A very serious and thought provoking post...
KDR81 thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#9
..

Originally posted by: history_geek

An entirely different take and a mature one. Your multidimensional approach to this issue is praiseworthy. The points raised here are many times raised on the forum before also. Only difference, this time, it does makes sense. I agree with the examples you have quoted from history. Just think what 'may' happen if someone starts showing Darius as stupid vis a vis Alexander.!! Imagine the protest the Persian Gulf will erupt into.!! Though Alexander won but Darius was an exceptional warrior as well. A fact can't be negated. Those people out there love their culture. Best example being the Chinese in America, as you mentioned sometime back also..

Also, i am agreeing to the fact, what will the present generation feel, seeing the portrayal of these historical characters. A princess eloping ? This is sarcastic..!! Yes, for me it was..!! As you mentioned, I also found it hard to explain EVEN to my college friends that nothing like that is heard of in history.!!. Atleast not on THIS Earth...

As for protestors, i do agree regarding the transition from protestor to a legislator. Can't call 'ALL' of them jobless...!!. History is replete with examples, be it, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Lenin, or many legends from French and American Revolution, etc. They names are living till now.. We have such examples in India as well..
But the thing with the protestors against JA is that they protest against the name of show MAJORLY. Why don't they raise their voice when the those same people for whom they claim to protest are shown in bad light..!..?.. I was dumbstruck seeing Bharmal shown a traitor..!.. Showing Heera degraded or showing Akbar stupid to such an extent is 'holy' crap..! I agree Akbar was under excessive influence of Maham till she died, resulting in the famous Petticoat Government till 1564. But, this time, in present track CV's are deliberately roping MA and causing all possible damage to these characters...!! Atleast, tone down this treatment..

I am not from historical BG as far as studies are concerned. But, m highly interested in our culture and heritage, and hence personally went to all depths to find what our REAL history was like. Foreign historians have left no stone unturned to proclaim us backward.. Take Greek sources- they call chandragupta maurya's army as a band of robbers..!! If that is the case, what about greek army in the battle with Darius..?? Britishers defamed Mughal history. And, did not even leave the rajputs in this process, and consequently even gave new theories regarding their origin!. See the image of Ghori and Prithviraj chauhan in Afghanistan.. Ghori is their hero and Prithviraj is ***.!!! We have countless examples for this. Ending abruptly, due to lack of time, but a nice take from you... 😊



Hi Cleo and Abhay (and all),
A very legitimate concern you have hit upon...!! 😊A disclaimer really does not get the PH off all responsibilities of misleading...!! All the more so, when viewers' list includes school-going kids ..!!😳
It is really sometimes painful to digest the absurd incidents shown here ...I myself have gone through quite a few such hard times...😕😕 And it becomes unbearable when it hits the sentiments of the present bloodlines of the clans...
But , I also have noticed that if some incidents like that are shown, there follows a redemption sequence too...invariably...😳
So, it is a good idea to have patience and watch for the redemption episode..!!😊


Abhay knows, that quite a few times I have pointed out this thing that the show does have core issues intact , but they also take a considerable Liberty on the "Masala factor" !!😕

But given the situation , we really cannot expect PH to suddenly go bland with their "Curry"..that too, of all Phs BalaJi...!!😆 hence, the best option is to make sure that the serial remains an entertainment only and does not get promoted to the Rank of "History Tuition sessions"...without parental discretion...!!😃

So, encouraging kids to read authentic and approved history books and rely on those more than Balaji Serials will surely be a good idea , if they really want to know history....(And this applies to some adults also...😆)
Abhay is a good flag-holder in this respect...I believe...!!😆

Regards,
Kamal

P.S.Can someone pls tell the Makeup man , not to make Ruqaiyya look like a Witch with that deathly white Eye-liner...?? 😕😕


Cleo12345 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 11 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: history_geek

An entirely different take and a mature one. Your multidimensional approach to this issue is praiseworthy. The points raised here are many times raised on the forum before also. Only difference, this time, it does makes sense. I agree with the examples you have quoted from history. Just think what 'may' happen if someone starts showing Darius as stupid vis a vis Alexander.!! Imagine the protest the Persian Gulf will erupt into.!! Though Alexander won but Darius was an exceptional warrior as well. A fact can't be negated. Those people out there love their culture. Best example being the Chinese in America, as you mentioned sometime back also..

Also, i am agreeing to the fact, what will the present generation feel, seeing the portrayal of these historical characters. A princess eloping ? This is sarcastic..!! Yes, for me it was..!! As you mentioned, I also found it hard to explain EVEN to my college friends that nothing like that is heard of in history.!!. Atleast not on THIS Earth...

As for protestors, i do agree regarding the transition from protestor to a legislator. Can't call 'ALL' of them jobless...!!. History is replete with examples, be it, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Lenin, or many legends from French and American Revolution, etc. They names are living till now.. We have such examples in India as well..
But the thing with the protestors against JA is that they protest against the name of show MAJORLY. Why don't they raise their voice when the those same people for whom they claim to protest are shown in bad light..!..?.. I was dumbstruck seeing Bharmal shown a traitor..!.. Showing Heera degraded or showing Akbar stupid to such an extent is 'holy' crap..! I agree Akbar was under excessive influence of Maham till she died, resulting in the famous Petticoat Government till 1564. But, this time, in present track CV's are deliberately roping MA and causing all possible damage to these characters...!! Atleast, tone down this treatment..

I am not from historical BG as far as studies are concerned. But, m highly interested in our culture and heritage, and hence personally went to all depths to find what our REAL history was like. Foreign historians have left no stone unturned to proclaim us backward.. Take Greek sources- they call chandragupta maurya's army as a band of robbers..!! If that is the case, what about greek army in the battle with Darius..?? Britishers defamed Mughal history. And, did not even leave the rajputs in this process, and consequently even gave new theories regarding their origin!. See the image of Ghori and Prithviraj chauhan in Afghanistan.. Ghori is their hero and Prithviraj is ***.!!! We have countless examples for this. Ending abruptly, due to lack of time, but a nice take from you... 😊

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".