SKR-Of loops and symbolisms#2:30/04:P.107 - Page 89

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SriMaatangi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
It's just your perspective. No one will get offended here.

Jaya, I know Krishna used manipulations in the war. He was doing what they did in the Dyut Sabha. They used manipulations to chuck the Pandavas out, Krishna used manipulations to help the Pandavas win.
Krishna is not Rama, but Krishna is Rama. He is Everything.

What makes you think Krishna didn't feel bad? He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He feels every single living organism's pain; He is us, we are all a part of Him. Everything He did was for justice to prevail. The meaning of His life is summed up in:

"Yada Yada Hi Dharmasya

Glanirva Bhavathi Bharatha,

Abhyuthanam Adharmaysya

Tadatmanam Srijami Aham'.




"Whenever there is decay

of righteousness O! Bharatha

And a rise of unrighteousness

then I manifest Myself!"

Praritranaya Sadhunam

Vinashaya Cha Dushkritam

Dharamasansthapnaya

Sambhavami Yuge-Yuge."



"For the protection of the good,

for the destruction of the wicked and

for the establishment of righteousness,

I am born in every age."
deejagi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Shrutha, No I never said Krishna wrong but all I said was he was manipulator and if he wanted he could have avoided so many deaths. he could have at least ensured that the battle is between the brothers (cousins) and should have spared the death of so many soldiers from both sides. he saved just Pandava's (5 brothers) and none else even from Pandava's side. How do we justify the death of pandava puthra's, the sons of Panchali in the hands of Ashwathama? he knew Ashwathama will come to the pandava's tent to avenge his father's death and he ensured to make the sons sleep in the place of their father's and took the Kunti & madtri puthra's from their tents. What was their fault?
Except for the embryo in Utthara's womb (Abhimanyu's patni), he didn't saved anyone apart from pancha pandavas.
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
@jaya it is your perspective. And that's why I said it differs. What I said is my perspective or my way of seeing things.
And as Shrutha says, we have to understand not just the action, but the intend of the action. As far as I am concerned that is the tough part. The intend. Because without intend we tend to be judgmental and we can apply the action in the wrong context. If you see MB many of Ram's actions has been applied in wrong context. In Kaliyuga it is much more. In the name of Maryada purushottam what is done is not maryada at all. I have been a feminist and is a feminist and I have certain questions on Ram after reading multiple versions of Ramayana especially as a woman. Somehow understanding Krishna has helped me to understand Ram better. Why he did what he did. I have not worshipped Krishna. I have tried to understand him like his best friend Arjun. Because for me if you understand a person, you will know why he did what he did. That's all. I try to understand people as much as possible in real life too, without being judgemental of actions as much as possible.
My experience has been whichever situation I have been judgmental one way or the other Lord has put me in that situation, asking me to take the decision and observe the results myself. So some things are my experience, others I am still learning.
For me it has been easy to go backwards, from MB to Ramayana and then to Prahlad. Reason I am telling is certain parts I am able to connect scientifically. And when science comes fear goes. Faith is not without basis, but with basis.
Prahlad as I said it is just my understanding as of now. To understand him more, I should be understanding the dynamics of Ram-Hanuman is my take. Unless I understand them, I cannot reach Prahlad- Narasimha. Again it is an assumption. But I want to travel in the direction. My only take is I want to understand, not for anything else, or for anyone but for myself. Maybe my own peace of mind. The answers my mind is seeking. I believe it to be there somewhere in Indian mythology.
Edited by shruthiravi - 9 years ago
CutiepieAD thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Hello all
I read all your posts

Shirley di, Geena di loved your takes so much 👏

@Janhavi @Shruthi di I loved your post on SiLa and I know the Prakriti and Sanskrit angle very well, we have discussed it quite a few times on this thread, still I can't connect with the over confidence quotient of Sita nd Lakshman too appears very over protective nowadays..

Sita did cross the LR but wasn't it because Ravan told her that if she doesn't cum out of that Rekha, it will earn bad fortune for her husband and his family,
Surely Sita was tricked by Prakriti nd couldn't see the deviations in the deer as well as the sadhu who was actually Ravan in disguise..
But wasn't it even the norms of Sanskriti which made her cross the LR ?

What makes me not like this track is that it shows Sita's overconfidence towards knowing Prakriti which made her cross the LR more than her ignorance towards Sanskriti...

Abt Lakshman wasn't his task of making LR because of his dilemma of following his Ram Bhaiyya's orders of protecting Sita and Sita's orders of protecting Ram that he found a middle way out and created the LR, and not because of his over protective side.. And that day when Ram said that Sita has a point, how come he disobey his Bhaiyya? If Ram said then their must be some point na? Why this disrespect towards him? It didn't go well with me..

Just few days back we saw Ram's protective side towards Siya, where he said she should nt have left alone, then how cum few days later he allows Sita to stay alone?

And then why is he turned into a mute spectator in Lakshman Sita talks, I can understand your point so I rewatched scene and could see it in a better light...

My dislike towards the show right now is not script but presentation, which seems very inconsistent...

PS I am really sorry guys to trouble u all with these negative posts which shud b actually made in the DT but I don't like that thread, and I know if I discuss with u all I will get to see everything in a better light.. Pls don't misunderstand me and think that I am unnecessarily trolling, but I just can't put up a pretence of liking anything when I am actually not liking..
Edited by aditi97 - 9 years ago
daydreamers thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
episode is superbly interesting... virat bhai itne viraat hai pata nahi tha 😆
meghnad scene was interesting...

i wonder how can a person be such a controller? he's exact opposite to lakhan as per me...
Shivam... thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
The scene in which Meghnad consoled his Mamashree , I could see a touch of Manupulativeness and That cunning Look
Traits passed from father to son😉
CutiepieAD thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
I actually liked today's episode a lot 👏
What I was missing in SiRa relationship was that I could see more of Ram and less of Sita, her admiration towards Ram, her pov that SKR had promised, I could see it again after soo many episodes... When Ram was about to leave to fight against that Rakshas, Sita was soo concerned about him and his assuring smile 😳...

The wind blows and takes Sita away from Ram.. This time it was Prakriti stealing her away from him later during Sita's 2nd abandonment it's gonna be Sanskriti taking her way from him...

Also today it was the wind and finally its going to be the earth, all elements of Prakriti taking away Sita from Ram.. But here there was manipulation in the wind speed by the Rakshas and Sita didn't want to go away from Ram, hence he was able to protect her and get her back.. Later it's going to be Sita's freewill, she will herself leave Ram by the means of Prakriti, and that time he won't b able to get her back

(This whole part is just my imagination , maybe I am over thinking😆)

Vali actor is really doing a FAB job 👏
Liked him yesterday too ...

How good is Ankur as Meghnad ⭐️
What a manipulative person.. Janvi u r right, he is exactly opposite to Lakshman.. But have one similarly.. Meghnad is very loyal towards Ravan nd Lakshman towards Ram ...

Surpanakha escaped, now Ram Lakshman sita beware😆

avalonhigh1234 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Well friends, managed to watch the episodes as well as read your posts. Here is my two cents worth. First with the Siya- Lakshman equation-I have a different take on it: I would like to start with the scene where Sita gives him her shawl and thus fulfills his need for warmth or protection. She seems to continue it to the scene when Lakshman binds her for her own protection.
I felt that she was not taunting him about her ability to break the circle of protection,but teaching him that his protection is not infallible with respect to her will. Ram and she had come to this earth for a reason and that mission would be fulfilled only by her breaking the so called barriers or traditions existing in the society.She wants him to be free of his guilt at her forthcoming trials starting from her kidnapping to her banishment.As a mother she had to protect her child from the heart wrenching guilt and pain that he would face at her kidnapping.So she give him a reason for his failure to protect her by crossing his protective barrier.That would in go along way to stabilize his grief and would make him strong enough to support his brother.
Why do we forget that if Ram was an avatar of Vishnu then She herself was Lakshmi.They both were divine and beyond ignorance or any other distortions found in normal humans.We can never fully comprehend the depth in their actions.
Today On a lighter note Ram did learn about collateral damage. She takes him on the path where his compassion goes along way to reduce the pain of the asuras' family.God is impartial to all his children,isn't he?He just reaffirmed it with the interaction with them.
Shruthi I loved your analysis about Lanka.I felt that Lanka seems to be a reflection of the world including Ayodhya.Lanka has noble feelings too but here is where Sita's bandhan and maryada comes to play.As she says if the nobler feelings don't lead to righteousness and thus God ,it is a hinderence to the individual self and thus to society.
Savita
Edited by avalonhigh1234 - 9 years ago
CutiepieAD thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: avalonhigh1234

Well friends, managed to watch the episodes as well as read your posts. Here is my two cents worth. First with the Siya- Lakshman equation-I have a different take on it: I would like to start with the scene where Sita gives him her shawl and thus fulfills his need for warmth or protection. She seems to continue it to the scene when Lakshman binds her for her own protection.
I felt that she was not taunting him about her ability to break the circle of protection,but teaching him that his protection is falliable with respect to her will. Ram and she had come to this earth for a reason and that mission would be fulfilled only by her breaking the so called barriers or traditions existing in the society.She wants him to be free of his guilt at her forthcoming trials starting from her kidnapping to her banishment.As a mother she had to protect her child from the heart wrenching guilt and pain that he would face at her kidnapping.So she give him a reason for his failure to protect her by crossing his protective barrier.That would in go along way to stabilize his grief and would make him strong enough to support his brother.
Why do we forget that if Ram was an avatar of Vishnu then She herself was Lakshmi.They both were divine and beyond ignorance or any other distortions found in normal humans.We can never fully comprehend the depth in their actions.
Today On a lighter note Ram did learn about collateral damage. She takes him on the path where his compassion goes along way to reduce the pain of the asuras' family.God is impartial to all his children,isn't he?He just reaffirmed it with the interaction with them.
Shruthi I loved your analysis about Lanka.I felt that Lanka seems to be a reflection of the world including Ayodhya.Lanka has noble feelings too but here is where Sita's bandhan and maryada comes to play.As she says if the nobler feelings don't lead to righteousness and thus God ,it is a hinderence to the individual self and thus to society.
Savita


Beautifully written ...
I can see the episodes in a much better light now 😊
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Thanks Savitha. You have beautifully explained Sita-Lakshman dynamics. Yes you are right. Sita is protecting Lakshman from the guilt so that he can emotionally support his brother. And I had also put the same thing but in a different way, that she is enabling him to fight Meghnad. With your analysis I can make an extended analysis of the same. A mother has to ensure the child has the protection even in her absence, that child is able to pull off the battle of his life for the protection of dharma.
Meghnad has to brought down by Lakshman only. Others can help. But that battle is his. His alone. He has to fight Meghnad's Maya. He has to have absolute control on his emotions.
@aditi don't hesitate to put your questions. We can discuss. Only thing we don't want is comparison between various Ramayana and tell this is right or wrong in SKR.
Now coming to Meghnad. Guys I am drooling over him. What a character sketch. What clever manipulation. This man knows what he wants and how to achieve that. He uses the revenge angle on his mamashri and tells he only has to take Bali to that Rishyamooka mountain. But what Meghnad forgets is that Bali knows what will happen if he enters that mountain so to lure him there intellect of Mayavi is not enough. He will do blunder for sure. Meghnad has good strategy, but when it comes to application he may lose out because he doesn't have the right people to implement the same. Strategy as I said is theory, execution is as important or more important than theory. Because many things can go wrong when you try to execute and only the one who can think on their feet can manage right execution of a plan. Even Sita does it brilliantly. Even in her captured state she gives boon to Jatayu that he will be alive till he pass on the information of her abduction to Ram and Lakshman. She drops her jewellery in Rishyamooka mountain. Mareecha does it cry in the sound of Ram to lure away Lakshman.
But Mayavi yes as the name suggests he will create Maya to bring rift between brothers, but the place of the curse becomes Sugreeva's asylum and from where the plan of the destruction of Lanka is hatched. That's what I said illusion of solar eclipse, temporary victory for adharma.
Now let us see interesting parallel. On one hand we have Ram and Lakshman trying to stop Virat asur on whom no arrow makes an impact. Jatayu comes and tell the way to kill him. The brother's plan the strategy. Here a friend comes at the rignt time to give right information and Ram-Lakhan are able to strategize so that the evil is defeated.
Kishkinda beautiful symbolism was shown when 2 brothers went in 2 paths because of the asurs. In the absence of a friend Hanuman the brothers doesn't know the real intention of these asurs. They think they are simply attacked. They doesn't understand the strategy is divide and rule. They just react to Mayavi and Dundubi challenge. We need to understand why someone is challenging you just like that. Same thing happens to Arjun on day 13 of kurushetra war. On day 12 Arjuna defeats Drona's plan of taking Yudhi in capture . They know that with Arjun around capture of Yudhi is not possible. So they make king of trigartha challenge Arjun on evening of day 12. Trigartha king knew he will die and Arjun also knew that king is no match for him. But then why the challenge. Reason was simple. Creation of Chakravyuha which only Arjun and Krishna knew how to break. With them away they can capture Yudhi. What Drona didn't know was an young man with half knowledge of Chakravyuha will wreak havoc and become the martyr in such a way that day 13 belong to him. Abhi overturns all of drona's plans. And the question can Abhi's death be prevented. If it is not Abhi, then it is Arjun. Because Karna was standing with the weapon Shakti. No defense against it in direct battle. Arjun cant enter chakravyuha when Karna had Shakti. No matter Arjun can break Chakravyuha, but he will have to fight Karna and if Karna uses Shakti war done and dusted with. Jayadrath has the boon he can hold off the entire army except Arjun for one day. If Arjun gone and if Jayadrath uses his boon where will dharma win.
We have to know the ripple effect, to understand why Krishna took away Arjun. Jayadrath can be bought down only by Arjun. And he had another interesting boon. If his head fell on the ground, the one who put the head on the ground his head will break.
It is with Pasupathaastra Arjun directs Jayadrath's head to his father's lap. And it is Krishna who tells Arjuna to do tapasya of Mahadev and get Pasupathastra. Reason was Jayadrath, to set direction for Jayadrath's head.
Kaurava army was targeting Yudhi to end the war quickly. And Krishna he was targeting the defense of Dury. And in any war the strategist will only target the defense and protect the right people for the victory. For victory of dharma Arjun was needed, hence for Krishna his protection was paramount.
In Kaliyug also we are dealing with people with multiple boons. If you attack someone directly even you will be destroyed. That's why direction becomes important and unfortunately you cant see the 8 direction, so it is better to trust your intuition which for me is Krishna's direction.
And if you see what happened to Bali yesterday it is his lack of knowledge on what is happening in the particular direction he threw dundubi. It was his mistake, a mistake borne out of his anger, his need to show off his prowess that resulted in the curse. He never intended to hurt that rishi.
And in that lies another message. If you are facing problems in life, first try to understand whether you have made any mistakes. Some we might know, but some we may not know but if we try to introspect we will get them too. Make effort to correct them.
Then check if your parents or siblings have done some mistake . See the effect of your parents mistake sometimes you will have to bear. Just like the vanvass of Ram. It was not his fault. But the mistake of Dasrath who gave Kaikeyi open ended boons and gave a lot of importance to her over and above crown queen Kausalya.
Many times we see only the other party faulty, without looking where our family went wrong. If you are able to trace that path, make effort to correct them also.
Because even when hurt happens unintentionally you have to bear the consequences.
And I loved that Sita's ideal world is breaking. Her dialogues of asur ka uddhar well yesterday it was virat and today I guess more asurs are coming

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