SKR-Of loops and symbolisms#2:30/04:P.107

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daydreamers

@daydreamers

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 9 years ago

#301

WOW!!!! Only WOW!!!

Pls gift me a dictionary for adjectives 😆 am now at the loss of words...

The stone where siya sat was more or less like a lakshman rekha. Juz see the sequence.. First ram left.. Then lakshman left voluntarily..

Today as she hears the cries of the boy she crosses the lakshman rekha... Its then when the hawk tries to attack and ram kills it...

Clever scene...

This scene is exact opposite yet similar of what will happen in the future...

If the stone is lakshman rekha the boy is the saint who'll come to take "bhiksha". The hawk is the pushpak viman which will take away sita.

Now why was siya safe today? Rem both ram lakhan went voluntarily..

This scene will change when siya will want to see the mrig and pester lakshman to c as his brother is in danger... The cry

" lakshman" in the future is similar to the weeping of the kid...

Note the change... Ram scolds sita. Sita shows him the kid. Sita proven right. Check...

Confidence increase...

The kid was representative of many things...

If am not wrong its the deer who cries "lakshman". And today as sita fell for the kid's cry She'll fall for the deer's cry...

Bharat urmila scene.. I was waiting for this...

Absolutely brilliant...

Shruthi if dharma sabha was the beginning of sita's journey to sanskriti... One journey of mandvi had started the day prior. Mandvi janaka convo began her travel.. Janaka made mandvi understand bharat's guilt... And in dharma sabha the debate gave mandvi that proof... Yes bharat was disappointed as ram didn't return.. But his guilt somehow was lessened aa he took his footwear...

Yday as bharat wasn't able to give her any reasoning, her state was only to accept his decision to rest his emotional turbulence.. She agreed to support him yday.. But c the magic today..

Urmila bharat scene was much needed to give her a proof of his guilt and the extent to which he is affected.

Urmila's condition will make mandvi to accept her fate...

Bharat's " valkal" was a proof of his guilt towards ram.

Bharat's decision to leave the palace will be a proof of his guilt towards urmila and lakshman..

And rightly or wrongly mandvi has to bear it... Just notice her.. She was affected but not once did she interrupt bharat as he talked to urmila...

Shatrughna bharat debate was the icing...

If it was vachan and tyaag yday.. Today it was swadharma rajdharma...

Loved shatrughna to the core...

Both had valid points.. Its tough to choose one...

Shruthi, bharat's breakdown only reminded me of past closure theory... Bharat is trying to give his past a closure.. To redeem his mistakes ( though it was none of his)

And shatrughna is trying to give him direction..

Today I saw more of ram in him...

We were so right then.. Ram gave shatrughna knowledge, lakshman gave him actions and practicality...

It takes me back to bharat's unconsciousness.. Waah!!!!

Bharat as a self is unconscious now...

He's samarpit to ram. Rem how ram was consistently with him...

Lakshman shatrughna were sent to get the bramharishi.

Bharat's unconsciousness for me began the day when ram was given vanvas.. And lakshman stormed off to kill him.. More or less symbolic to bring him out of his unconsciousness. But ram stopped him...

That work remained incomplete... And c today shatrughna tries to complete that work... But again he's stopped by kaushalya.. Let's wait for tomorrow..

Am more eager to c how and when his guilt ends and his past gets a closure.. Sita's abduction will intensify it more...

The next thing I want to talk on is sita's confidence... The cvs have build it gradually... And am suddenly like 👏👏 at the connectivity...

But I still want to wait to put up this whole connectivity... It will be one long post...

Am glad they have shown the development of sita as a human and not as God... Its so refreshing to watch this way... Quite relatable...

Edited by daydreamers - 9 years ago

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#302

@DD beautifully analysed jungle scene and Bharat Urmila scene. But I want to add on Bharat shatrughnan. It was brilliant and made sense from our old symbolism. I will put it in detail tomorrow because I am typing from mobile and I want to put something that has affected me deeply today. Bharat says a word parampara or tradition. That word bought tears to my eyes. Reason you all might have by now heard about the temple tragedy in kollam.this place is hardly around 25kms from my uncle home. I had been there yesterday to attend festival in our family temple. While returning today to tvm back every 5 minute an ambulance was rushing to accident site ambulance going with victims to tvm medical college. It was only ambulance sirens in the entire stretch from kollam to tvm.Reason for the tragedy. Parampara of competitive fire works in temple festival between groups. Irrespective of permission not granted by district collector due to safety issues for tradition it was done flouting rules. And a tradition that claimed 100 plus lives injured 300 plus in a poll still 1percent want that tradition. Question do we need a tradition that take lives.can't festival be celebrated in a positive manner.

Edited by shruthiravi - 9 years ago

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CutiepieAD

@CutiepieAD

Sparkler

Posted: 9 years ago

#303

Beautiful analysis as usual...

Vanvas track parallels with Sita Haran is FAB 👏

I always saw Lakshman as a part of Ram and Shatrughan as a part of Bharat.. Kaushalya and Kaikeyi both gave half part of their kheer to Sumitra, so can't we say that, the half part of Kaushalya's kheer grew up into Lakshman, being a part of Ram.. And the half part from Kaikeyi's kheer grew up into Shatrughan, being a part of Bharat.. Ram and Bharat are reflections of each other, Lakshman and Shatrughan being the shadows of each of them respectively...

Shadow does follow us , it always stays with us..

But it's position depends on the direction of light..

Sometimes shadows stay behind us,following us, but with the change in direction of light, i.e when light is behind us, shadow may stand in front of us, opposing us.. But when we change our way of standing and face the light, its again behind us, or in others words, follows us..

When Ram took the decision to leave the palace and go for vanvas, Lakshman initially opposed him.. But when Ram faced all the adversities head on and took a decision, Lakshman followed him..

In the case of Bharat and Shatrughan, right now both opposing each other, let's see what happens later.. Both seem to be talking sense.. It's either shadow following the body or body following the shadow..

@Shruthi di, I had no idea about this tragedy, thank u for letting me know, really sad to hear that.. This happens in Diwali too, firing crackers has becum a tradition nowadays...

Edited, today I read about it in newspaper, really sad news

Edited by aditi97 - 9 years ago

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avalonhigh1234

@avalonhigh1234

Explorer

Posted: 9 years ago

#304

Yesterday I did not like the episode except for Bharat and Mandavi scenes, so no comments on that. Bharat's guilt is representative of all the times we humans are so overwhelmed by our own feelings ,that nothing can reach us; neither reason nor logic ...not even God's wishes. But somehow He manages to reach us in our self-imposed darkness ...Today Shatrugan was Bharath's voice of reason; His ray of light that managed to cut through the darkness of his thoughts. Tomorrow hopefully Kaushalya would clear the path for him{doesn't her name mean competence?}

In 'uttar kand 'Shatrugan becomes the king of a kingdom{not sure about the name}...Today we saw why Ram choose him for the task. Today this loop was opened .His clear headedness in times of crisis and his ability to cut through the confusion of bharat's mind with his understanding of both the Raghuvanshi's and Ram's principles ,was indeed spectacular.And Shruthi here is where your theory of being 'Moksh 'comes in to play. When knowledge and wealth is not present and the power loses its way it is indeed the 'moksh' which acts as our conscience.

Regarding Lakshman-rekha,I will wait to see how it is shown in Skr...but as a woman I really don't like the concept of it. Why is it always for a woman than for a man whose thoughts and actions put her in danger? Why isn't the maryada of it followed by a man? Wouldn't it be more effective for establishing a safer society for a woman?

I am myself a mother of daughters. I keep telling them that they have to be observant and aware of their surroundings, to be cautious instead of being afraid to venture out. I reiterate this every time they leave the house, though they are taught about all of this from first grade in their school. But I really hate the necessity of all these measures that stops them from being free. I have to fall back on my father's strictures that it is not them but the world outside that I don't trust...

A woman or girl is expected to be dressed in a certain way or not be at a certain place after a certain time, be aware and alert even while doing normal things...all this is because of half of our modern society. I want every girl or a woman to adhere to certain principles and not go beyond certain limits...because it is right and necessary to do so .not out of fear for her safety from those men who themselves are not able to walk the righteous path! But then Plato himself could only dream of his utopia...not live in it!😊

Savita

Edited by avalonhigh1234 - 9 years ago

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radianteyes.

@radianteyes.

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#305

Hello everyone ,
Beautiful analysis dd , shruthi di
Nicely put up about mandvi , yes we missed many things about her , we forgot that there is a lakshman rekha for her too and she shall not cross it ..

Now I will start with the temple tragedy , I knew something will happen , I had already had this intution , I felt my body burning ..
Now , this happened due to fire , fire = power.
Now this is not related to that tragedy , I had tears in my eyes when the news flashed .
OK fire = power
Whenever the power will be misused or overused , the counter power or the internal power shall overflow and burn the person .

Coming to bharat today , bharat is burning in the fire of guilt , he confronts urmilla , she like the water says that this is her saubhagya that she is helping her husband and indirectly pointing out that she is helping dharma , helping truth .
She tries to calm the fire thats burning inside bharat .
Now bharat points out in the raj mahal
That he has to find himself , and he says he will follow his will ( free will ) the first step towards moksha .
He says how will I follow dharma when I don't know myself , this is his path of self realization .
See how bharat first meets ram , then urmilla and finally shatrugan ...
Loved the episode truly.

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radianteyes.

@radianteyes.

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#306

Originally posted by: sshirley

Hello di , nice to meet u 😊

@Aditi di , savitha di
Nicely put up

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radianteyes.

@radianteyes.

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

#307

Jahnvi di , u asked what connection I have with ganga perhaps the answer is depth .
The depth of ideas , the depth of knowledge , the depth of beauty and since I relate myself to water , I feel its its depth that connects me to the base of knowledge .
Then its the moon , that's the power which pulls the water and finally its the ocean that is liberation .

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CutiepieAD

@CutiepieAD

Sparkler

Posted: 9 years ago

#308

Originally posted by: radianteyes.

Thanks charvi, loved ur explanation on Urmila
And today's analysis was really good

So 12th ? Which stream?

@Savitha di , the same question keeps coming in my mind , why all rules for girls only , though times now, still girls get less freedom comparatively

@Shirley ji happy to meet u 😊

Edited by aditi97 - 9 years ago

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shruthiravi

@shruthiravi

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

#309

@Savitha I have made a separate post on sita's question of me trouble. You can read my comments there, where instead of rules I have talked about awareness and knowledge to defend oneself. We girls should have the knowledge. Unfortunately the society puts restriction on a woman instead of giving her knowledge. If you look Janak gave Sita the knowledge of Prakriti, but lacked giving her knowledge of sanskriti. You will ask me why. Men use traditions as a bait to suppress woman. The problem women face is that they don't know how to use traditions for their advantage to put men at spot 😃. Savithri and Durga does it brilliantly. If you look the way Savithri fools Yama dharma it is using sanskriti only. Durga the way she plays with Mahishasur should be a lesson to every woman not only to safeguard oneself, but also the larger society against men like Mahisasur. Sita knows Prakriti and not Sanskriti. Remember the question Sita had asked in sabha when Janak punishes the raja of Sangarsh. That from which kingdom Janak is banishing the defeated as king as he owns nothing. Sita was correct as per Prakriti then, instead of listening to her Janak should have started teaching her Sanskriti where we have state boundaries and we are not supposed to go and attack someone beyond that boundary. Our freedom should not curtail, another's freedom. That loop is running now. Janak's mistake of indulging Sita in that sabha. And one more thing Savitha you stole my point. I wanted to put Shatrughnan yesterday showed all the qualities that is needed for a king. He chased the adharma out, he was supportive of his brother not wanting to ascend throne and rule as a representative king, but was unwilling to support his brother in running away from responsibilities. And 2 scenes come to my mind. First Ram Shatrughnan in Mithila where Ram explains to Shatrugnan about pain of vidhaai for a bride's family still it has to happen. Cut today. Shatrughnan is pained as much Ram has not come back, but he understood Ram had to do vachan palan as per the raghukul tradition and Bharath has to manage kingdom irrespective of the pain. Second Lakshman telling Shatrughnan based on the situation action has to be taken. They wake up rishi from tapasya breaking the protocol. Today Shatrughnan being youngest questions his brother as he knows he needs to do that and he breaks protocol. Moksh taking knowledge from Dharma, and Artha awakes Power to take rajdharma so that the cycle of duty is complete. Actually Ram does Vachan Palan, Bharath Tyaag, Lakshman Swadharam and Shatrugna Raj dharma. 4 pillars of raghuvansh erection starts from Ram, ends in Shatrugnana. And in perfection. Loved the screenplay@DD now the most important part Mandavi Bharath symbolism. See as I said we were so much engrossed in Mandavi as fire we missed the holistic picture. Now let us look at it once again. First from Bharat's perspective. We need to see Mandavi -Bharat as strangers and how Mandavi views bharath and what changes her perception.

Now without knowing Bharat spills colors on Mandavi. Mandavi is irritated as everyone is laughing. Bharath coming to Ayodhya after Ram vanvass. No Ayodhya vasis talk to him. Colors spilled un intentionally and unfavourable opinion formed. Bharath didn't demand throne, but again unfavourable opinion formed . Mandavi is to praja of Ayodhya. Their perception of Bharath.

Again Mandavi carries the box with clothes for Ram, Bharath hits her unintentionally, box breaks. This time Mandavi's displeasure shows . Bharath enters palace and knows father's death. Broken box signifies death of dasrath

Note in first 2 instances with Mandavi Bharath is sad but not guilty as she is a third party.

What changes the equation. When Bharath -Mandavi marriage decided. Bharath notices the displeasure of Mandavi , speaks to Ram and tells her he will break the alliance without affecting her reputation as he feels guilty as because of him a woman is made to do something she doesn't wish. Bharath was not responsible for alliance, still he intends to take step to correct it. But that changes perception of Mandavi. She agrees for marriage. And before further damage kirti tells the decision to bharath.

What happens here. Mandavi tells the story. Then Bharath is broken. He goes to correct things. But what will change perception about him to praja. When he takes the ownership and rule. Delivering on Ram's trust.

Now when after box correction Mandavi goes Bharath still feels she doesn't like him. It is the case now. Even after renouncing throne, keeping padukas Bharath feels people still hate him. But not the truth as Shatrughnan is showing him mirror and most probably Kausalya will tell him not to feel guilty. Enough. He has done enough penance. Now he has to do his duty. Just like he agrees for his alliance with Mandavi when Kiriti comes and says Mandavi is fine with marriage.

Now coming to Mandavi. Mandavi has unfavourable opinion about Bharath after 2 instances. But it doesn't matter to anyone , as no one is thinking of any connection between them.

Mandavi fires Manthara telling her she wont break home, She requests Kaikeyi not to break things without asking with Bharath. Note first colors. Manthara calling her Maharani and her blasts. Second broken box with dress for Ram. Ram's coronation messed by Kaikeyi, she asks not to mess it.

Just like without asking Mandavi Janak agrees for the match, Kaikeyi Manthara goes about planning things irrespective of 2 warnings from Mandavi that Mandavi wont be in their side. Just like what Mandavi feels is not taken care in the marriage, Kaikeyi , Manthara also doesn't think what Mandavi can do.

Now Mandavi spills the beans. Marriage alliance. Bharath goes about correcting. Scene with Urmila. That was the last thing he needed to do. But still he doesn't stop. Urmila telling Mandavi you do something and now suffer as Mandavi worries will they have gone and told Dasrath to break alliance.

The fire lit by Mandavi is not abiding. Even after Urmila says not to say sorry to her. Now most probably it will be Kausalya who will be stopping it directing Bharath towards his duty.

The feelings starts with Mandavi and it is going to end with Kausalya the vision. Mandavi showed him past and Kausalya will bring him to present is my take.

Screenplay was again perfect. Only thing is that we didn't take them as a couple. But I am very happy they are giving good screen space to Mandavi. And I am loving that character. She is a perfect blend. Blend of prakriti and sanskriti. And I would say having qualities to be a queen as she can manage relations.

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daydreamers

@daydreamers

Sparkler

+ 6

Posted: 9 years ago

#310

Shruthi.. Thank you for elaborating this deep.. I did think there's sone connection between the box scene and the current state. But am too tired up to think anything...

Cmn to bharat mandvi yes juz like you I was on a u turn with our analysis.. And today once again I find myself with you.. Same interpretations... Absolutely...

Cmn to shatrughna once again we are on same pg. I was reminded of those two scenes and we were right on pillar thing...

I missed that sabha where sita asks janaka... Which episode? Childhood? Pls sequence batao.. It shall be easy for me to search... 😆

Mandvi and sita... They are contrasting yet similar..

Compared to sita mandvi is a perfect blend of sanskriti and prakriti..

This I shall trace back to their birth...

Sita appeared out of nowhere... From earth.. From prakriti..

Mandvi's birth is juz like the mortals.. Prakriti+sanskriti.. I.e offspring of a couple...

When it comes to sita am reminded of draupadi here. Especially star mb... I don't remember the name of her sister. Amba's reincarnation shikhandini kya? There was this interesting dialogue..

As they take draupadi to the palace, she caresses the roses kept in the way...

And then she bumps into the mirror and is a bit startled. She isn't able to recognize what it is... Shikhandini said an interesting line..

You were born from fire from nature so u have the knowledge of prakriti and its creations... But you don't know about man's creations.. That is you know prakriti but you don't know sanskriti. Draupadi married 5 men to keep dharma intact. To keep kunti's word intact. But later being disrobed gives her a bitter taste of sanskriti... And this journey of hers ends with the death of her sons..

I see such thing in sita also.. As I have missed the episode of that sabha so can't go deep.. But from your interpretation, it was janaka's duty to explain what state boundaries were.. Cz land is prakriti but kingdoms are sanskriti.. Boundaries never existed, they were made to exist...

Janaka experienced prakriti's wrath for 12 years.. The drought... His condition of helplessness made him understand prakriti... The man understood prakriti to such an extent that he forgotten about sanskriti... He forgot to teach sita how to deal with the cruel world..

Cut to chandrabhaga... I can only remember the bidaai hug here.. Kirti always asked innocent questions, sita also was curious.. If sita was knowledge and kirti was moksha.. With the knowledge that is eternal and permanent one can attain moksha.. That knowledge can only be prakriti.. Understand prakriti and you attain moksha..

Mandvi hugged chandrabhaga.. Chandrabhaga more or less is representative of sanskriti.. Even though mandvi was brought up by sunaina, the blood that runs in her veins is of chandrabhaga..

Chandrabhaga's thoughts were inline with sanskriti.. Who'll marry sita after knowing her truth? Isn't my husband deserving to rule a kingdom? Isn't it my right to keep my daughters with me?

Mandvi becomes that perfect blend because she has chandrabhaga's blood and janaka's teachings..

Her questions after janaka's arrival to ayodhya were more or less like sanskriti... Why to do so and so if it will inflict pain? And janaka gave a beautiful pointer that sometimes pain is the only solution to lessen pain.. In this coexistence and conflict between sanskriti and prakriti, prakriti has to bear the after effects with severity.. Its always at the extremes no ifs no buts...

I time and again had said this bharat is like sita...

For mandvi's enlightenment bharat is necessary.. If bharat's actions tell her what is right, her words tell him what is wrong..

She has become that catalyst in breaking the traditions.. And yday when bharat uttered that very dialogue I was whistling... It was like aah!!! Ab aya uunt pahaad ke neeche...

The parampara is more or less like sanskriti . and mandvi tried to explain the same to him in a different way. She added the streak of janak to her explanation. "Daaitva" "dharma" "kartavya". She used Ram's stand here. But it didn't ignite him..

Now c shatrughna. This man directly bring in maryada and parampara and bharat flies off the handle..

Infact we were in this state that mandvi will fly off the handle. But its exact ulta.. She's making bharat do that..

Today kaushalya's stand will show us what mandvi-kaushalya combo is like. Cz they had skipped their scene then..

If bharat is able to deny kaushalya.. We have satyabhavan...

I haven't read savita's post so am clueless what she didn't like. But I assume it's the scene between sita lakshman..

Lakshman here represented kaushalya..

I was time and again reminded of kaushalya's maryada maryada dialogues...

Lakshman is doing the same. " suryavansh", "raghukul",

" kulvadhu ". He's again into sanskriti.. And this is what sita fails to understand... Its not that laksman termed her as chinta or matter of fear. Its not that his bhabhi is wrong. He has this blind faith on her. But what he isn't sure of is the world.. Even if today u c 99% of parents won't allow girls to roam alone not bcoz their girl is faulty but because they don't trust the big bad world where they live..

And c once again, ram took sita's side.. He is more or less representative of janaka here.. Again he fails to explain sanskriti. And to learn prakriti sanskriti one has to experience it. It is not a theory or a mere concept. Its an experience.. U read geography ecology environment thousand times but you can't relate to it till you experience it. Till you travel to the untravelled.. Till u urself go to the nature..

Sita has experienced prakriti and hence has a terrific understanding of nature...

Her experience of sanskriti begins with the golden deer. And this is where ram and janaka will realise where they were wrong..

This incident will change everyone's perspective...

Janaka ram were like hindrances in sita's understanding of sanskriti.. They were the shield.. And once this shield is out her journey of experiencing sanskriti will start.. And this experience will make her raise luv kush in a balanced way...

The Ramayana that they recite at the end is a perfect blend of sanskriti prakriti.. By questioning about sita they shall bring in prakriti and by hiding their identity of being sita's kids they'll follow sanskriti..

Her journey will start with the golden deer to experience sanskriti...

The debate and lakshman's dialogue act like the concept of sanskriti...

Her journey of sanskriti will end once she understands that its only her who can give justice to herself.. The sanskriti won't stand for her. Its only prakriti who can take a stand for her.. Its only prakriti which can save her from the cruel world..

The journey that began with prakriti will end in prakriti..

She'll once again implement janaka's teachings at the end...

Even after janaka fails to teach her sanskriti, he'll be the best father. Why?

His ability to teach his daughter something that made her immortal. That made her an epitome of purity.. Only prakriti can be pure... His teachings made her endure all the hardships...

Jai jai kaar prakriti ki hui.. Sanskriti was bad mouthed...

Today the praja is blamed for their narrowed vision and sita is worshipped for her greatness..