Crisp Bytes SC - 19th July 13 - Page 8

@kaadal Thank you and... Ditto for your shayari's 😳 Amazed by the strong smooth flow and deeper insight/pain in them. Bravo! 👏

Originally posted by: arshicritic

What was answered in fragments that were not really connecting well for me, has been put together beautifully by you hotdogg!

Who better than the master of alpha beta personality theory to bring all points under the fold and tie it up neatly for us!

Thank you sirjee for that! @ bold -yes sounds consistent with Kumud's personality!

Originally posted by: smrth

@ iviewer and Hgg, I have trouble identifying/predicting full scope of their actions into mere alpha, beta, omega or their combination compartments of different permutations or combinations. For the reason; the characters conceived in their original form, chiefly in service/validation of an ideological world view (of the author) pinned on spiritual ideology of Upanishads- mainly Ishavasyam, have to have a more flexible paradigm broad enough to incorporate spiritual aspect so unique to Indian heroes. And especially so for Govardhanram's SC. For roots/ justification ( if any) of most of their actions or conclusions are primarily based on this aspect for both the characters in the original Novel. (Chiefly, realisation of SC's 'existential dualism' Goals in his life and Kumud's contribution towards it.) Though most of this is skirted in adaptation for obvious reasons ( who would care such arcane?!), and proposed theory (alpha,beta) brilliantly accounts many of the actions here. Nevertheless, that basic aspect still influences the crux turning points, (culminating in both the marriages- first her, than his). Willing 'Renunciation', a spiritual trait, by both, (and almost entire tale as its fall out), can not be entirely explained with a clinical/secular societal model of Alpha- Beta, I feel. But I might be wrong.😕

its so much enlightening to read everyone's analysis in the CB threads, all of u guys r at some other level! kya khoobsoorati se baal ki khaal utarte ho😊!

smrth,..

Exactly as Iviewer described it...

Alpha & Beta characteristics is a hypothesis we use to explain / better place the characters and their actions..as with any hypothesis we use it till it works and when we get evidence to the contrary we replace it for something better to explain he anomaly..

Also your interpretation basis your immense knowledge of the source can co-exist with the theory...because each views the same subjects (saras & kumud) but with a different lens while bound by its own laws...its like is looking at specific layers...

Let me give an example... while I write this post, I am using a web browser (1st layer) which I know, but as I complete a particular keystroke (2nd layer), the electrical signals from the specific key I pressed move down into the circuitboards where the specific electrical signal now gets converted into an assembly language since the laptop circuits Intel can only a more basic / technology based instructions (3rd layer)...this language code representing that a particular key has been pressed at the keyboard then moves into the CPU where it further gets converted into a machine code (4th layer)..this machine code then finally moves electrons here and there by turning some transistors among the millions of transistors on the CPU on & off (5th layer)...due to which the CPU 'understands' that a specific key has been pressed...THEN the whole sequence happens in reverse, finally routing the signal to yet another party (display) ...where finally what I pressed gets actually displayed...

Now 2 rules apply:
1) All of the above taken separately represent the same reality...a particular key has been pressed and lo behold...that same key character has got displayed...but taken individually do not mean anything...meaning / final action happens only when all work together

2)Another dynamic...all the inter-related events while still representing the same reality are still BOUND by a hard set of laws (speed of conversion, electrical signals etc.) in their own patches..

.BUT all of these are finally CONSTRAINED by the laws governing the innermost layer of the CPU...e,g, CPU speed...If your CPU is slow, no matter how fancy your display screen and other peripherals, the laptop performance will NOT improve...we have all seen this...if you have a slow CPU, it takes forever for the application (browser) to launch...no matter how fast that browser is...

- Similarly, I believe the Alpha & Beta characteristics are like the CPU...the deepest / simple state (the 'ant' perspective as described by Iviewer)...

- Both can coexist

- BUT these define the core of the characters...everything FLOWS from these...everything is BOUND by these...including their own responses / preferences for spiritual ideology...

Now did the author have such an understanding when he wrote these up...probably not...but then that is what literature interpretation is right...future generations trying to make sense of the what & whys?

Don't know if I have made sense...in which case let me defer to a master...T S Eliot...who has a profound and elegant poem Four Quartets which comes close ...fantastically & majestically close...:

At the still point of the turning world.
Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards;
At the still point, there the dance is
But neither arrest nor movement.
And do not call it fixity
Where past and future are gathered.
Neither movement from nor towards
Neither ascent nor decline.
Except for the point, the still point
There would be no dance,
AND THERE IS ONLY THE DANCE

- The individual's characteristic nature (alpha, beta) is >>> 'still point'.
- This is the fulcrum & anchor on which your entire personality, approach to life, responses, preferences, opinions etc. is tied to >>> 'the dance'.
- like my crude CPU analogy, the dance gets transmitted down to the still point and reactions / responses / opinions / ideology flow from the still point >>> 'At the still point, there the dance is'
- the last 3 lines represent how core is the hidden still point >> Sorry...I cannot comment upon these 3 lines...anything I say and write will only spoil the perfection of these lines...

Trust this has helped...

Originally posted by: mandygill

its so much enlightening to read everyone's analysis in the CB threads, all of u guys r at some other level! kya khoobsoorati se baal ki khaal utarte ho😊!

yup...😊

SC to chalta rahega...it is the medium...

the journey / message is the fun part...

..the overall cerebral stimulation, sharing of perspectives and subsequent individual development through the discussions...

1 + 1 = 11 types

😎

Originally posted by: hotdogg

smrth,..

Exactly as Iviewer described it...

Alpha & Beta characteristics is a hypothesis we use to explain / better place the characters and their actions..as with any hypothesis we use it till it works and when we get evidence to the contrary we replace it for something better to explain he anomaly..

Also your interpretation basis your immense knowledge of the source can co-exist with the theory...because each views the same subjects (saras & kumud) but with a different lens while bound by its own laws...its like is looking at specific layers...

Let me give an example... while I write this post, I am using a web browser (1st layer) which I know, but as I complete a particular keystroke (2nd layer), the electrical signals from the specific key I pressed move down into the circuitboards where the specific electrical signal now gets converted into an assembly language since the laptop circuits Intel can only a more basic / technology based instructions (3rd layer)...this language code representing that a particular key has been pressed at the keyboard then moves into the CPU where it further gets converted into a machine code (4th layer)..this machine code then finally moves electrons here and there by turning some transistors among the millions of transistors on the CPU on & off (5th layer)...due to which the CPU 'understands' that a specific key has been pressed...THEN the whole sequence happens in reverse, finally routing the signal to yet another party (display) ...where finally what I pressed gets actually displayed...

Now 2 rules apply:
1) All of the above taken separately represent the same reality...a particular key has been pressed and lo behold...that same key character has got displayed...but taken individually do not mean anything...meaning / final action happens only when all work together

2)Another dynamic...all the inter-related events while still representing the same reality are still BOUND by a hard set of laws (speed of conversion, electrical signals etc.) in their own patches..

.BUT all of these are finally CONSTRAINED by the laws governing the innermost layer of the CPU...e,g, CPU speed...If your CPU is slow, no matter how fancy your display screen and other peripherals, the laptop performance will NOT improve...we have all seen this...if you have a slow CPU, it takes forever for the application (browser) to launch...no matter how fast that browser is...

- Similarly, I believe the Alpha & Beta characteristics are like the CPU...the deepest / simple state (the 'ant' perspective as described by Iviewer)...

- Both can coexist

- BUT these define the core of the characters...everything FLOWS from these...everything is BOUND by these...including their own responses / preferences for spiritual ideology...

Now did the author have such an understanding when he wrote these up...probably not...but then that is what literature interpretation is right...future generations trying to make sense of the what & whys?

Don't know if I have made sense...in which case let me defer to a master...T S Eliot...who has a profound and elegant poem Four Quartets which comes close ...fantastically & majestically close...:

At the still point of the turning world.
Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards;
At the still point, there the dance is
But neither arrest nor movement.
And do not call it fixity
Where past and future are gathered.
Neither movement from nor towards
Neither ascent nor decline.
Except for the point, the still point
There would be no dance,
AND THERE IS ONLY THE DANCE

- The individual's characteristic nature (alpha, beta) is >>> 'still point'.
- This is the fulcrum & anchor on which your entire personality, approach to life, responses, preferences, opinions etc. is tied to >>> 'the dance'.
- like my crude CPU analogy, the dance gets transmitted down to the still point and reactions / responses / opinions / ideology flow from the still point >>> 'At the still point, there the dance is'
- the last 3 lines represent how core is the hidden still point >> Sorry...I cannot comment upon these 3 lines...anything I say and write will only spoil the perfection of these lines...

Trust this has helped...

Hgg and iViewer

First of all, Huge thanks for your brilliant explanations and patience. You two are just awesome.👏

I Viewer- as I told you earlier, 'my canvas' as you said, may be wider for obvious reason, but it also has the fault of 'half knowledge' for not having understood it entirely.

As I said, The Model brilliantly explains much of the actions in serial...but then, some important actions remain much baffling or even misleading in their reasons or logic. They are so because they are directly tracing their origin in a haphazard adaptation of the Source, where a track is joining the original but with out concurring elaboration available in the book- done rather with a jump skip. For instance, SC's simultaneous appearance in SN is one such. His immediate 'revert' is a complete reverse from the source. In book, his decision to renounce was final; again, reason there was ostensible 'relief' to Kumud. But he did not 'revert'. And then, he surfaces in Suvarna Puri after three months. Even then, he does not 'want' her back. The 'forfiet' stays final. Regret arises only over Kumud's plight. On the other hand, Kumud, 'learning' his benevolent motive, is not only immediately forgiving him, even considers herself 'guilty' for causing him a 'flight' from his home (for her good'!) But her moral dilemma is also on; 'continue loving ex fiance while married to other'...Notice, this last stage is incorporated in the script here...a track as per original, but without effecting operatives of the original. Result, an imbalance/ incongruency in analyzing Kumud's actions/drivers; 'she did not wait. So she too is 'guilty' of 'egotist steps'. 😕(alpha nature?) similarly 'Saras 'revert' so some sort of exculpation on 'renege'. (beta?)...now again, his instruction to Kumud (a letter) to marry elsewhere was final and conscious in the book- unlike a temporary impulsive 'blunder' as painted here. But then his other 'follow up' here is following the book! Now Author's logic behind SC's action- conscious renunciation is underpinned on pure spiritual concept of 'detachment'. He cites a philosophy, where his ultimate goals standing on 'liberation' from any worldly attachment are his prime drivers...

The question is, how do we compartmentalize this Indian concept in 'alpha- beta' model?

Hgg, if we are predicting/analyzing them per se, then aren't we analyzing/reacting to a very complex author's 'living' world view as transcending the century through characters of this story? Would it then be confined to mechanical analogy of inanimate C.P.U. and electrons light-racing the layers?

The brilliant (and I bow) poem is much, much elucidating. I cant thank you enough. But at the fulcrum 'Still' point, I would place 'spiritual consciousness of the author' and all the ensuing Dance flowing from it- correctness or incorrectness of Author's world view is subject matter another debate (which, am deferring at this point).

Q-Was not Bhagwat Gita some sort of influence on Four Quartet!?😲

I am lacking Hgg's neat coherence or iV's awesome articulation. I wouldn't have nagged you so much over an Indian soap (!)😲- but extraordinary depth of you two is simply inducing me to go lay out the misconceptions more and more. Indulge the recalcitrance.😊

As well, apology for tardy response...out with friends and stealing peeps and now some time to write the respons...naturally afraid of errors plethora it must contain, please take the import'

P.S. Understanding model's application with better clarity..thanks! friends.

^^^

@ Hgg, loved your explanations of Instruction handling by CPU, why were you not my prof in college? Electronics would made much more sense then!