SRGMP-The End of the Innocence - Page 7

Originally posted by: sangeetaa

Towards the end, there were fewer and fewer actual performances on these shows and more and more canned (and I now believe cunningly scripted) drama... This is a SINGING contest for god's sake - why on Earth weren't these people SINGING more??

It's true this Challenge 2005 did throw up some genuine talent. I am thinking of Sharib and Swananda and Sanchali and Raktima along with Hemachandra, Nihira and yes Debojit and Vinit also... but what exactly was the message to these singers? It seems to me it wasn't "practice, improve" - but "glam up, wear some chic clothes and shake some booty - it covers up a lot for your imperfections" I don't think the message was: "throw your emotions into your art". It was "Be a ham and a drama queen. Get people to sympathize with you and it won't matter as much if you don't give your best".

Exactly my feelings too. Their clothes were getting hep, their dancing was improving too and they had even learnt some acting towards the end, but what was happening to the singing?? The make-up often looked garish. A genune singer like Nihira had to sound apologetic that she couldn't dance much. Why?

I also got quite tired of certain expressions like:

Mere rongtey khadey ho gaye the

Aap sub ne bahut achcha gaya.

Aap sub bahut badey star banenge

Inhone mere dil ko choo diya

Inhone apne dil se gaaya.

Mai Zee Tv ko shukriya ada karna chaahta hu

Thank you so much for inviting me to this show.

okie aapko menaka ke avtaar mein dekh ke baccha ban gaya tha sangeeta mam 😆

Originally posted by: Shantibai

never mind those fillumy guys
the fresh one and indeed one that rang so genuine came from a budding bengali artiste .... i believe her name is onjali
when she took the trouble to speak with Nihira in Marathi and praise her for her rendition ......this caught even my blue diamond by pleasant surprise
a compliment must never be archaic or hackneyed .....if your rongtye are uplifted then something is wrong in your endocrine system and you are attributing it to what you hear..all bloody put on .......my 2 cents ..no offense

somebody shld copyright those lines. good 2 use when u feel like having janta throw eggs at you

qwerty-meisterG, people the world over r basically the same. we're all just at a different stage of evolution. but again, if u had a beautiful singer who was 15/20 on some pure magical scale, and you had another who was average looking and a 20/20, who would you like to watch? n with all the talent around, there is not really a world of a difference in terms of how two people sing. again, it's not easy to disassociate urself from visual factors.

another example. half the time one likes a song because it's filmed around attractive characters. conversely, someone good such as amitabh cld take a nautanki song n make it memorable.

it's very hard to separate good "pure" music from the other aspects which enter our imagination when we listen to music. visual factors, our own moods, our own experiences all enter into the eqn. In fact it is precisely these factors which makes us "relate" to the music. if u take that away, u just have a vinyl or a CD which is lifeless to an extent. WE BREATHE OUR OWN PERSONALITIES INTO THESE SONGS. WITHOUT THE LISTENER, THERE IS NO COMMUNICATION, NO SOUL. n this is why all of us have our own likes/ dislikes.

so it is misleading to talk about "pure" music because it means different things to different people. n that's a problem that neither the old or the new sgmp format, judges or public voting, could fix.

anyway gtg. so cant offer any follow-up.

Originally posted by: sangeetaa

Shantibai - at this rate, kaliyug will never end... Bhagwan Himesh jaise logon
ke gaane sunkar avtaar lene ko inkaar kardega...

He'll be like: 'Do I really want to down *there*?... I don't think so!' 😕

Absolutely right, mera bhi wohi bichar hain

qwerty-saab: What about Sharib? You don't think Sharib had talent?
And Sanchali?

Mind you no-one is calling these kids perfect - but some of these kids are on par with our current stock of playback singers don't you think?

A vibrant culture would not only allow such kids to flourish but to develop their own expressiveness.

BTW, I disagree with you that Lata or Rafi didn't perform. Performance does not equal dancing a jig. It's pretty hard to sing well if you keep fidgeting around. I remember a story about Kishore. It seems early on he used to emote and act out so much that he would move around a lot while singing. Then someone asked him - why do you keep moving. Stand still while you sing. And he did. If you watch clips of his playback singing, you will see him - there will be all sorts of expression in his voice and on his face, but his body will be standing tall and absolutely still. And yet, if you ask me, Kishore-da could teach these antsy kids a thing or two about "performance".

So, there is nothing wrong with performance. So much of our traditional music is *meant* to be sung to an audience. It is from that performance - from that interaction that music develops. That's where new forms of expression, new ways of touching the human experience evolve.

But instead of that, we are all set on aping MTV videos. What the heck is wrong with us?? 😭

Originally posted by: sangeetaa

qwerty-saab: What about Sharib? You don't think Sharib had talent?
And Sanchali?

Mind you no-one is calling these kids perfect - but some of these kids are on par with our current stock of playback singers don't you think?

A vibrant culture would not only allow such kids to flourish but to develop their own expressiveness.

BTW, I disagree with you that Lata or Rafi didn't perform. Performance does not equal dancing a jig. It's pretty hard to sing well if you keep fidgeting around. I remember a story about Kishore. It seems early on he used to emote and act out so much that he would move around a lot while singing. Then someone asked him - why do you keep moving. Stand still while you sing. And he did. If you watch clips of his playback singing, you will see him - there will be all sorts of expression in his voice and on his face, but his body will be standing tall and absolutely still. And yet, if you ask me, Kishore-da could teach these antsy kids a thing or two about "performance".

So, there is nothing wrong with performance. So much of our traditional music is *meant* to be sung to an audience. It is from that performance - from that interaction that music develops. That's where new forms of expression, new ways of touching the human experience evolve.

But instead of that, we are all set on aping MTV videos. What the heck is wrong with us?? 😭

"But instead of that, we are all set on aping MTV videos. What the heck is wrong with us?? "

- i guess indian music is in its early stages of beatle-ization. am sure the oldies of that generation were similarly not too happy with the new music the beatles were introducing. they probably also had problems with the long hair n the life style. but over a period of time, after the usual bumps along the road, we have gotten to where we are today with western music- a diversity of rock, pop, jazz, folk, country, classical, hip-hop, metal..., some great, some perhaps not that great. but irrespective, they r all valid forms and appropriate 4 different people/ age groups/ cultural/ ethnic background. no point standing in the way of evolution. will just get run over.

i am also all 4 experimentation. if content is so vital as u suggest, then fine i am sure it will emerge the winner, stronger for the fact that it had competition from other musical genres. otherwise, who r we to say that just a certain kind of music is good n the new is to be reviled. progress is generally uplifting, though there are always certain segments which lose out. but society as a whole is generally better off for it.

ok cb-ji - to make it very clear - I have nothing - absolutely nothing against experimentation or mixing other genres... but the question is how you make those genres your own. ARR is famous for mixing in different genres of music. So was RDB. But the final product was able to speak to the Indian experience. I don't really see how the skin shows we put on stage in the name of Indian culture say anything about our experience as Indians. I'm not exactly from the previous generation - at least not to you ma friend.

Originally posted by: sangeetaa

ok cb-ji - to make it very clear - I have nothing - absolutely nothing against experimentation or mixing other genres... but the question is how you make those genres your own. ARR is famous for mixing in different genres of music. So was RDB. But the final product was able to speak to the Indian experience. I don't really see how the skin shows we put on stage in the name of Indian culture say anything about our experience as Indians. I'm not exactly from the previous generation - at least not to you ma friend.

yaar dont want to go with this much further. somewhat like flogging a dead horse at this point 4 me. am not sure what u're referring to regarding skin shows. mtv? sgmp? yaar wat we saw on sgmp is nothing compared to wat goes on in actual society (meree baat mann le is barey mei!). n so wat if u have stuff on mtv. they have it in the west as well. but tat's not stopped good music from coming up. in fact, some of the best music was produced in an era of free-style living. am not sure wat u're trying to argue about anymore. we've gone now from criticizing public voting, to somehow losing the "soul" in indian music to now skin shows in mtv.

i just had two points- visual/ personal experience factors are important in almost any setting, whether or not u have judges. n second, much as i might revile HR, i'd be the first to say that perhaps he is part of the process towards musical evolution and variety. n its necessary.

lastly, mkting is important whether u like it or not. u can have a great product but if u dont mkt it well, it wont sell. all the other talk abt a good product selling itself is a rare phenomenon. we've lagged economically for donkey years precisely because we did not have any customer/ mkting focus. if nothing else, mkting teaches u how to develop products which fill some societal/ human void. the objective is certainly to make money but u're not going to be able to unless u address some basic need.

This thread seems to be taking a different turn all together. But here are my views.

Afte reading the previous posts, I see there seems to be a disagreement over certain factors
1) Quality of Music
2) Quality of Music in reality shows
3) Quality of Music in SRGMP in particular.

I will address each one of them.

In Fame Gurukul, one of the episodes featured this debate on S-Factor (Singing factor) vs X-Factor (Performance factor),it is a debate which has been there in the industry for sometime and it has taken an interesting turn offlate when composers dunno what music will work. If a Vishal Shekhars Dus works, than Jatin Lalit's Chalte Chalte works too. If A R Rahmans totally jazzy RDB creates waves, his soul ful songs in Lagaan still appeal. In short, its hard to judge the musical taste of the quality of music. To say this has fallen isn't right on the part of some brilliant music directors who strive to give the best. Quality of music hasn't fallen, the standards have just been raised.

Older singers like Lataji, Kishore da, Rafi Sahab were performers in their own right. I liked what Shaan said in an episode when Nihira sang OH Saathi Re and hte AV had shown a mock of her dancing. He said you have moved us with your voice. That is what I call performance. Till date, Lataji's Ae Mere Watan ke logo makes me cry. That is true performance. You dont' need to dance to establish yourself.

Unfortunately, its very hard to find performers like that today who can just make you cry by their voices, very very very few. Hence, for the new comers it becomes almost mandatory to be able to dance a bit,look more pleasing etc because that sells now. Its the harsh truth of life, and we have to accept it. That doesn't mean there is any less appreciation for good talent. Till today, Alka Yagnik or Kavita Krishnamurthy's songs are totally revered as much are Sunidhi's or Shreya Goshals songs hummed. Thats the beauty of Indian audiences, there are people who like everything.

Coming to SRGMP C05 performance, I would totally disagree if you say the show had become only about looks. Please tell me which consistent singer's singing got spoiled after the make over? Personally I think it just became better. There seemed to be more confidence in their singing which is a good thing. I am a Hema fan so I give his example. I was watching his initial performances when he was a seedha saadha boy before his transformations to Hot and Handsome. His singing just became better. So what if he changed his looks a bit, it didnt do him any loss. Same for Nihira, Himani, Sharib, Vinit, Debojeet who were consistently regarded as good singers.

At the end of the day, they are going to be recognized as singers and not performers, btu the day hasn't begun yet! So right now, they need to establish themselves, in todays cut throat competitions, they have to have something different about them.

In conclusion, quality of music hasn't fallen and wont ever fall. Music is too pure for that. Even if th eMTV culture creeps into our lives, true music will always survive

My 2 cent views