Analysis by Disciple of Pt. Bhimsen Joshi - Page 6

Originally posted by: adwarakanath

When a woman and a man are singing a duet, the woman has to increase her scale to match the man's normal one....right?

and take chupchupke from B&B, the overall effect of Nihira's song b'cos of the same is much better than the duet of Sonu/Mahalaxmi Iyer(of course in my opinion)

I absolutely loved the live performance of Jiya dhadak dhadak by Himani and then when I listened to RFAK, you see what was missed in Himani's version.

But hey I am not here to blow my own horn, Anuragji/Bigmacji might have a point from a classical singing perspective that I/we all missed, and he is a better authority than me(dont want to say us) in Sangeet.

If he is a shisya of Bhimsenji, humara dhyan unki charnon ki dhool bhi nahi. I just want a better explaination, thats it.

Originally posted by: sareg

and take chupchupke from B&B, the overall effect of Nihira's song b'cos of the same is much better than the duet of Sonu/Mahalaxmi Iyer(of course in my opinion)

I absolutely loved the live performance of Jiya dhadak dhadak by Himani and then when I listened to RFAK, you see what was missed in Himani's version.

But hey I am not here to blow my own horn, Anuragji/Bigmacji might have a point from a classical singing perspective that I/we all missed, and he is a better authority than me(dont want to say us) in Sangeet.

If he is a shisya of Bhimsenji, humara dhyan unki charnon ki dhool bhi nahi. I just want a better explaination, thats it.

I completely agree with you on Chup Chupke and Jiya Dharak2.

Sareg ji, Guru achcha hone se hi shisya achcha nehi ban jata. Aap agar sirf ek din kisi naami guru se sikhte hai to app uske shishya hue. Is ka matlab yeh nehi hai ki aap bhi maha ghyani ho.

IF me jo likh raha hai woh agar asli Anurag ji hai tab thik hai. Woh bahat guni insan hai. Maine uska gana bhi suna. Lekin mujhe abhi bhi bahat doubt hai ki yeh koi aur uska naam leke hum ko topi pehena raha hai. Jo bhi yeh forum mein likh raha hai uska no doubt music knowledge achcha hai, lekin utna achcha bhi nehi jitna ek Pt. BSJ ji ke shisya se expect karte hai hum log.

Originally posted by: N Sinha

😉

Sinha ji,

Aap ka naya signature to khatarnak hai. 😆

Here comes my consiracy theory against the "so called disciple" of Pandit Bhimsen Joshi ji.

First let me tell all of you that I am not a disciple of any LEGEND, but was classically trained for few years, so my post does not have any weight. Although, I am not an expert in music, I was fortunate enough to get the opportunity to attend concerts of many many LEGENDS of the Hindustani Classical Music. One common thing that I have noticed in all these LEGENDS is that, they try to avoid taking the names of their Guru's or the names of even bigger LEGENDS on stage or anywhere. Even if they take their names they hold their own ears before taking the name of their Guru's with deepest respect. The people those who are involved with classical music will know the reason for holding the ear.

I am coming to the main point now. The reason I questioned the authenticity of the "so called" disciple of Pt. Bhimsen Joshi ji is when I started reading his post. I quote him "Namaskar. As a trained hindustani classical musician (I learnt under Pandit Bhimsen Joshi and Chandrakant Apte)". I was just shocked to see that our disciple saab didn't add any "ji" after the names of both his gurus. That sounded shocking to me. This might seem silly to lot of people but those who are into pure classical music will understand what I am trying to say. The behavior of a person says a lot of things about that person.

😉

Friends,
I just started a new topic regarding new ideas for restructuring Saregamapa for the 2006 Challenge. The link is
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=200825

It will be interesting to hear some constructive suggestions about which part of the format to retain and which parts to do away with in the 2006 version, so that there is no mud slinging and war of words. Of course, it will be too much to expect completely smooth sailing. Music is such a subjecive topic, but the rules of the game should try to infuse as much objectivity as possible.

Originally posted by: apparaohoare

IF me jo likh raha hai woh agar asli Anurag ji hai tab thik hai. Woh bahat guni insan hai. Maine uska gana bhi suna.

Talking about Panditji, he sang two bhajan/songs in this movie Aankahee(1984), my perception of classical singers changed from those two songs,those two songs were the ones I realized why they have Pandit in front of their names

In general when a woman and man are singing, the male scale is lowered one notch to suit the woman's normal C scale. Mind you this is only for live performances. For recordings, the male scale is lowerd one notch unless the woman can sing at a ghigher male pitch, in which case the mae scale is not lowered. The recording is then pitched-up to a C sharp or D from the pre-recorded lower scale. This is common nowadays. It is not that hard for a man to sing one ptch lower i.e. from a C sharp down to a C. However to pitch-up the woman from a C t a C sharp can stress out her voice depending on how high the song goes. If the song is in the first half of the octave the it is possible for a woman to scale-up. In some case they call it "Singing from Madhyam".

By and large this does not matter for recordings since they all sing in a scale lower than the normal one so that there is no stress on the voice and then the recording is digitally scaled-up. if the song does not go that high, then ofcourse scale does not need to be lowered and in fact in some cases scale is made higher so the singer can sing a very low pitched song better.

Originally posted by: sareg

Talking about Panditji, he sang two bhajan/songs in this movie Aankahee(1984), my perception of classical singers changed from those two songs,those two songs were the ones I realized why they have Pandit in front of their names

Pandit ji to bhagwan hai. We don't even have the calibre to even take his name.

Arguments have been made suggesting that since I did not use "ji" to denote Pandit Bhimsen Joshi and Pt. Chandrakant Apte, therefore I must be very disrespectful.

Not sure really how to answe this considering I used the words "Pandit" to denote each artiste! That is pretty adequate in most circles and norms of social address. Anyway no point dwelling over this any more.

Sometimes I feel like people are behaving like prosecution attorneys whose primary modus operandi atleast initially is to undermine the defendant by picking on specifics with the intent to tarnish the person's credibility.

Originally posted by: bigmac

Arguments have been made suggesting that since I did not use "ji" to denote Pandit Bhimsen Joshi and Pt. Chandrakant Apte, therefore I must be very disrespectful.

Not sure really how to answe this considering I used the words "Pandit" to denote each artiste! That is pretty adequate in most circles and norms of social address. Anyway no point dwelling over this any more.

Sometimes I feel like people are behaving like prosecution attorneys whose primary modus operandi atleast initially is to undermine the defendant by picking on specifics with the intent to tarnish the person's credibility.

Bigmacji,

Not trying to defend anybody, but a lot of times people have appeared on this forum, to give expert opinions, in reality those people were not who they claimed to be, hence I guess you were subjected to the scrutiny also the name of Panditji does brings a lot of attention(there is a saying in my mother tongue that goes something like gehu ke saath saath kankar bhi peese jaate hai)

BUT, it is none of my business what you call your guruji, that is your preference, so I will stay out of that matter

however getting back to your comparision on Nihira/Himani, was that just a preference based on the feel of their voice for the particular songs or that was based on your analysis of their voice attributes?