The hands you take and the hands you leave Part 63-Updated page 149 - Page 59

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shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
@mangothyme my understanding of Yudhi as Dharmaputra is followed the dharma literally by that I mean as per the perception of the society. For him, his wife was a property that could be placed as the bet. If you look none in the hall opposed this idea. The great Bhishma Pitamah nor the teacher Drona. They all endorsed the idea that what is happening is right. They told Yudhi had the right on his brothers. We need to know Yudhi kept them also as bets. Instead of individuals they were also treated properties by him. All his younger brothers.
We need to understand the beauty of Panchali's question and how could Narayan come to her rescue. She asks whether Yudhi kept her as a bet after he became slave or before that. Reason a king in those days was expected to have right on everything. So as long Yudhi was king he had the right on queen and place her as a bet. But once he becomes slave he has nothing and his wife is not his property. When Krishna comes hearing Panchali's call this is what Narayan affirms. A wife is not husband's property. She is an independent person and has a right to defend herself against the atrocity happening to her .

Panchali demanded justice. She only wanted Dusshana. But the whole army came to protect Dushashana and the war happened.

The upholder of dharma has to be clear. That's why I told Adhiraj is kept as a CBI officer. The law has to correct and has to punish guilty and that's why I have kept Adhi as Narayan also in real sense as far as Anami goes . Her friend position, when you look at the battle. But even for him, he has to take the power of LM. I can give more analysis only as story unfolds.

Abhi going to Chakravyuha yes it is willingingly but what option Pandavas had that day. Either Abhi cut through the vyuha or lose the war as if no one goes to cut Chakravyuha then Yudhi will captured and the war will end. So we have to know that Abhi had no option, but to fight it, atleast give a chance for saving his side from defeat, give a chance for further battle. Post marriage what option Satrupa had to fight the Chakravyuha she pushed into. Those days girls were not accepted back in their maayka as it was a matter of prestige. She had to fight, wherever she found oppourtunities. She is attacked every time.

Killing of Abhi was not the first adharma the kuruvanshis did. The only thing was that killing exposed the adharmis and their adharma. If you look at MB, Bheeshma brings the princess of Kashi taking them from swayamvar mandap for his brother. Vichitra virya dies. Then Ambika and Ambalika are asked to have relation with vyasa to bear the heir against their will. First it was injustice to take the woman from swayamvara as properties, second even if a man wins the war, they have to be that man's wife not his brother's wife. And third was this forced relation for a heir. Then for Dhritharastra the king of gandhar is threatened with dire consequences if gandhari's hand is not give for the blind kuru prince. It is this action that brings Shakuni to the hastinapura. Shakuni is not the villian of MB. For me the hypocrite Bhishma is the real villian who caused so much bloodshed with his actions. Shakuni was a reactionary force of the injustice that was meted out to gandhar kingdom.
Kunti is the only princess who comes to the kuru family with her will as she chooses pandu in swayamvara. But post Pandu's death when she comes to hastinapur she doesnt assert herself as queen but as Rajmata, the care taker of Yudhi who is crown prince.
Panchali is made wife to 5 pandavas so that they are together always and Panchali manages this injustice in her own way. Actually the infamous hall of dice exposes the adharma partially when Panchali for the first time asserts her right as a woman as a queen. But patriarichy tries to get away with it as it is a woman. But it simmers. The final nail and the expose is Abhimanyu's death.
It is called the tipping point or change point.

I have told again and again this point in Siya Ke Ram forum. Perceptions. What resulted in Sita banishment was not Sita's impurity by body or by mind. It was the perception of Ayodhyawasis that saw dirt in her, who couldnt accept their king's verdict that resulted in that banishment and it took 12 yrs for Luv-Kush to come and sing Ramayana and then question that perception. How an innocent lady, how a lady who did Agnipareeksha was banished.

Perceptions are broken only when the basis of those perception is challenged and visual proof is given. As long as it is women it is acceptable because as per perception of society women is supposed to obey. But if the same thing happens to a man well it is a different proportion. Similarly there are lot of perceptions in society. Exposing it is not easy. Blind rebellion fails because of this. The grey of the society, the hypocrisy of the society. You can kill Ravan, but how will you know the Ravan who chants Ram's name, how will that be eliminated. This is where Abhimanyu comes, shakthi in all its glory comes , the darkness in all the glory comes.
simran_singh_24 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
Shruthi, for me the real villain of MB is Bhishma's father, who made a poor choice of a second wife and indirectly forced his son to a life of celibacy .

Bhishma was the typical eldest son of Ekta's soap who was manipulated by his step-mom and did bad things for his step-family w.o making any personal gains, he just got cursed in the process.
Whatever adhrama he did,imo, he did it for other's benefits.

usharanganathan thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
Very well said Shruthi War of Kurukshetra began when Draupadi vastrapsharan occurred .Patriachs of the society of that time . Bhishma . Drona etc. Were the silent spectators for that dastardly act. They were silenced by the standards set by Bhishma himself. He conquered the princesses for his brothers , while two of them accepted his decision the third one rebelled and became Bhishma's end.Cause draupadi's molestation effect bloody war of Kurukshetra. Cause Bhishma vows effect warring cousin brothers. Mahabharat is replete with such examples. Moral of the story is you are bound to get the result of your ' Karma's
Satrupa heralded kurukshetra war, the moment she decided to bring Anami to LM.She chose this path so that her and her children's sacrifices did not go in vain. LalMahal and it's patriarchal ways has to change.Anami has left her with little choice. She has chosen herself as Abhimanyu willingly this time.She was pushed into becoming one earlier.
Satrupa was aleady halfway into the Chakravyuh at the beginning of this story she is now finishing it.
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
No Simran. For me Shanthanu did a mistake, but what Bhishma did was not mistake. Yes Shanthanu fell for a woman and Bhishma took the pledge. Post Vichitra Virya's death Satyavati herself asks Bhishma to marry so that the clan can go ahead. He talks about his vachan which forces Satyavati to bring vyasa as heir was needed. Bhishma gave importance to his vachan over and above human dharma which resulted in the mess.
You need to remember one thing. Bheeshma was alive because Shantanu broke the promise he gave to Ganga that he will never question her actions. After seeing Ganga throwing babies after babies finally Shanthanu breaks the vachan to save Bhishma. The one who was saved because vachan was broken did a lot of adharma to safeguard his vachan, his ego. And finally he is undone by the same vachan when Amba comes as Shikhandi. Nothing was over and above his vachan for him.

Usha Satrupa was fighting from the time she entered LM, fighting from all sides. Now she is in the last leg of that battle.
Edited by shruthiravi - 7 years ago
moonwearer thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
The treatment meted out to women was very unfair . Be it the way Shanta was given away to an old saint in order that Dasaratha has sons or the way Satyavathi was removed of her order(as Matsyagandhi) to please a rishi who was Vyasas father.Kings were permitted to take any number of wives and wives had to comply for all unreasonable acts to ensure the lineage continued. Kunthi testing her manthra had to abandon Karna but Sathyavathi could invoke Vyasa to impregnate her widowed DIL.
Shakunis sole mission was the destruction of the Kuru vamsa and to him any means fair or foul was fine. Same with Kunthi who bound her sons up in a marriage that was an aberration. When Draupadis chastity was questioned in the sabha, the elders could do virtually nothing.

The entrapment of anybody like castling in a game of chess pushes the gullible to a corner. all rules and norms are broken to achieve a mirage of a goal.

Satrupa when she brought Anami questioned patriarchy and the dictates of tradition as represented by the written word of Vikram. His belief like the betal is weighing on his shoulders. it poses a dilemma and sneaks away till he fetches it again. An errant son, a compliant DIL , a scheming nephew, an heir in waiting, Another woman and her child are all creations of this system that stifles freedom and justice.

The goddess was not celebrated...a pall of gloom hung over LM. There are bids to topple Durga...it could be Satrupa...Anami surfaces from below and ensures that misfortune doesnt strike. She bears the burden observes austerity. the enemy is not from outside but within LM.

The Shakthi that had been forgotten, will return in time.
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
@vidya the base of Chakravyuha is bend rules to maintain certain order of things. To break Chakravyuha you have to understand the power of Chakravyuha. The power of Chakravyuha is Maya or illusion or perception that certain things are right. It has to be shown it is not right. That's where Chakravyuh ka bhed comes. For that some bali is needed, some grave injustice is needed. The enemy is not anywhere outside , it is always within us.
moonwearer thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
The entire relationship of Baldev and the two women is an illusion in a sense. He is the perpetrator of the agony he also feels victimised. He is quick to blame others and is easily manipulated and coerced to fall in line. He feels he is wronged. The conversation between him and Sudha...the tone tenor and his looks gives me the creeps.
simran_singh_24 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

No Simran. For me Shanthanu did a mistake, but what Bhishma did was not mistake. Yes Shanthanu fell for a woman and Bhishma took the pledge. Post Vichitra Virya's death Satyavati herself asks Bhishma to marry so that the clan can go ahead. He talks about his vachan which forces Satyavati to bring vyasa as heir was needed. Bhishma gave importance to his vachan over and above human dharma which resulted in the mess.

You need to remember one thing. Bheeshma was alive because Shantanu broke the promise he gave to Ganga that he will never question her actions. After seeing Ganga throwing babies after babies finally Shanthanu breaks the vachan to save Bhishma. The one who was saved because vachan was broken did a lot of adharma to safeguard his vachan, his ego. And finally he is undone by the same vachan when Amba comes as Shikhandi. Nothing was over and above his vachan for him.

Usha Satrupa was fighting from the time she entered LM, fighting from all sides. Now she is in the last leg of that battle.



Shruthi,, Bhishma sticking to his vow isn't ego to me. It was his dharma to be honest to his vow.I'll blame Satyavati & Shantanu.
Shantanu did a mistake of interfering with Ganga, those kids she threw are supposed to be liberated from their curse & he infact caused Bhishma more suffering by forcing him to be alive.

shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
No Simran, no vachan or vow is above human dharma or humanity. This is what Krishna shows when he rushes to kill bhishma with his Sudharsana Chakra on 9th day when Arjun is not fighting properly. Then Arjun falls at Krishna's feet and tell him not to break the vow and he will fight. This is where the dharma of human comes. Shantanu was a human, for him a woman throwing babies was injustice, hence he stopped it. As a human I wont fault him, because what he did was as per human dharma of stopping a woman throwing away babies. He was not God to know those babies were supposed to be liberated.

But to sit watching a woman getting disrobed because he has vowed he will protect the hastinapur throne and will abide by the verdict of the hastinapur king is not human dharma. It is not humanity. He had the power to stop it. If he couldnt break his vachan, he had the option of choosing death. Swachand mrityu the boon his father gave. The throne would have shaken if Bhishma had told my vachan doesnt allow me to disobey the throne, but as a human I cant watch the kulvadhu of kuruvansh getting insulted hence I am choosing swachand mrityu. He didnt do both, he stood mute when a woman cried, begged to save her honor. He had the power, but he didnt use it. He held on to his vachan and allowed that injustice to happen.
moonwearer thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
I agree on Bheeshma Sruthi. Somewhere the choices he made were the reason for great destruction. He had vowed not to stake a claim on the thrown and remain a celibate as no progeny of his would stake claim. However he did not hesitate to break the hearts of princesses by the marriage proposals he took for them.
Hedid not say a word at the court when Panchali pleads with him. remorse fills him only as he lay on the deathbed where he atones to Panchali for she had suffered more than him because of the throne.
Harakiri was not new and he could die when he pleased, he could have gone on to do penance by laving the presence of adharma. He chose his interpretation of Dharma.

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