What's a few parting thoughts between friends

I have no problem with eating crow ... goodness knows I've been on that diet more times than I care to remember ... but in instances of false accusations, reverse-peristalsis sets in ...

So lemme see ... thus far, at least behind the scenes, I have been wondered about - 'who's this chick'? (I haven't been one of those for decades) ... have been thought to at least be a pedant with a penchant for magniloquence (would you indulge me and say euphuistic instead ... please? pretty please?) ... to my virtual face (from what I recall) 'long-winded', 'patronizing', 'spewing trash' ... and now from one very dear to my heart - my ciphertext decoded to be 'cr-p' (boo-hoo 😭) ...

So, here I am again ... in self advocacy even while pleading guilty to all charges ...

Let's deal with my 'cr-p' in plaintalk clothing first ... just one more arrow from my quiver ...

My carping that R.com fails is hardly 'cr-p', and here's why the serial rankles (for sound reasons in my estimation) and decimates any desire for continued viewing: a society as stratified as that in India exists not elsewhere on the planet ... if there are active efforts promoting a social miscegenation to blur the demarcating lines, they must be few and far between ... that same stratification is manifesting itself in the 'entertainment industry' ... the hero/heroine shown frolicking (replete with changing dress) in some European locale is yesterday's stale roti ... uh I mean panini ... an unholy fashion has been emerging that requires the industry stalwarts to completely center their (tall) tale telling either around the non-resident Indian or the resident non-Indian along with the requisite glitter and glamor (I know not of another nation who's film and television makers have this predilection) ... I despair that this same fashion is encroaching into Indian television ... and rather than a wholesome smorgasbord from which to choose, we'll be left with sterile serials of the R.com genre or the high-on-acid ravings of the Ekta Kapoor genre (thank goodness for microscopic mercies - I have been spared her work) ... it's as if in that vast subcontinent there remains not a single solitary story of the resident average Indian ... no middle ground to be had ...

No matter which way one turns ... a culture perpetually over the top ...

But the most interesting part about all this is the total lack of parrying by the high-priestesses of this forum ... I guess when the going gets tough, the tough go scurrying ... oh ... but wait ... I completely forgot the real reason behind the deafening silence ... how could a lack of 'gushing' be anything other than a sign of the utterly plebeian ... ah yes ... I'm not 'intellectual' enough ... of course ... silly me ...

There was a faction that thought my ostensible 'intellectualism' to be a sham and I could be taught an unforgettable lesson were I to dare the denizens of some uber-literary forum ... I reply: I'm happy to enter whatever hallowed halls you desire ... but if your understanding of 'literary' encompasses what passes as 'literature' (with exceptions of course), then, please, direct me to the nearest spittoon so I may puke ... without exception, the propounders of these theories are uber-delusional ... the penning of syntactically correct semantic pabulum is only marginally better than the penning of syntactically correct semantic bosh ... to confabulate is an inherent property of human brains (a good deal of 'literature' is precisely this) ... I do like a lot of said confabulation ... even revel in it ... but to then infer that such outpourings are representative of the 'real' condition of humanity is risible ... as is any ensuing discussion ... during the living of inauthentic lives, no effort is made to garner even a shred of understanding of the factual ... the physics, chemistry, and biology of this planet and beyond ...

I could not possibly improve on what Dawkins says in this regard:

"It has become almost a cliche to remark that nobody boasts of ignorance of literature, but it is socially acceptable to boast ignorance of science."

I could not possibly improve on what the Nobel Laureate, the late Sir Peter Medawar had to say in a critique of 'The Phenomenon of Man' by a certain Teilhard de Chardin (the rest is to be found here: http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Medawar/phenomenon-of-man.html):

"Just as compulsory primary education created a market catered for by cheap dailies and weeklies, so the spread of secondary and latterly tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well-developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought."

And a honing of the process of analytical thought requires back breaking industry ... the kind of industry demanded by the study of the sciences ... no other domain comes even remotely close ... so if your literary forum discusses many ... or actually any of these authors (my personal heroes, whose intellectual procerity knows no bounds) , I could be inveigled to participate: E.O. Wilson, Jared Diamond, Marc Hauser, Robert Sapolsky, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchins, Michael Gazzaniga, Steven Pinker, V.S. Ramachandran, Leonard Shlain, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, Scott Atran, Patricia & Paul Churchland, Antonio Damasio, Christopher Koch, Bryan Sykes, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza ...

Hi South Valley California Gal ... I'm sorry maybe my presumption is incorrect but I figured your username stood for that (I remember a reference to California being God's own country I think in one of your posts) ... but again I do apologize I am being too quick to decipher your username and that isn't correct ... but I may have missed your name in your posts and thus I'm not sure what to call you so (with sincere apologies if I'm out of place) I'm just going to go with Ms. Cal Gal ... I'm Tasha

I have read some of your posts Ms. Cal Gal ... and although at first my fingers were itching to type a reply, I was wary as I didn't really want to debate the show with you and in all honestly I'm not very good with words and didn't want to say something that you might take in the wrong way ... but after reading this post I can't resist

I also believe that your first post on this forum was meant to be a medium for you to further discuss the above point of view and to engage in a healthy discussion with us about why we may feel differently (I may be mistaken but I understood it to be this ... but again maybe I'm being presumptuous) ... and although I understand that you find correct grammar, syntax, spelling, and use of the English language (or French as I have seen you use) very important, I know that your continued attempts to prove that with Kavi were not looked upon too kindly ... actually maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone as they've not elected me as their official spokesperson so I shall speak for myself ... I did not appreciate it because I was looking more at the thought behind the message rather than editing it ... and although I can look past that to the actual point of your posts, it still is there in my mind and hence I worry about all the mistakes I've made in this response and about how ashamed I will feel that having been born and raised in a country where English (and French) is (are) its first language(s), I still manage to make a thousand mistakes and come off sounding like I've just learned the language yesterday ... so I do once again apologize for any and all of the mistake I have and will make in this response and hope that you won't hold that against me

I understand that you do not like R.com ... and I think I understood the reasons behind the dislike ... correct me if I'm wrong but from what I gathered you are adverse more to the general state of Indian television and feel that R.com is not as different as it is touted as being from other daily soaps (such as the ones you've been saved from watching as you mentioned) and also feel that in general there aren't any shows that reach the average person in India ...

I can see the point you're trying to make and find myself agreeing on some level about the general state of Indian television but that discussion is probably more appropriate for a chat club or the debate mansion so I will stick to R.com here ... when it comes to R.com I cannot agree with you here ... I'm not going to say that it is the next best thing after the invention of the wheel but I think writing it off as being a story about a resident non-Indian with glitter and glamour is unfair ... I don't think this show should be looked at on an Indian vs non-Indian scale ... personally I've taken it to be the story of two people who learn a few things about love, life, and relationships as they try to run a business ... the fact that it is situated in Mumbai and they speak a mixture of Hindi and English ... in my opinion this show could be shot anywhere in the world in any language and the characters would still experience and learn the same things ... I'm not comparing R.com to a show like Friends but on one level I do see a similarity ... the fact that the story is about relationships and how they shape you and the things you can learn from other people and other relationships that can be translated into your own life ... I will admit that some of the things they've learned have not been monumentally life-changing and nor have they been Earth-shattering realities ... but I don't think we go through life having the floor sucked out from under us everyday ... subtle lessons like realizing when you're being a hypocrite, clingy, too nice, jealous, etc. are realizations we do come across in our average lives and seeing the characters of this show go through similar realization processes is entertaining and comforting ... now coming back to the Indian vs non-Indian point ... as I said, I feel that this show would work in any language in any setting ... you may be tempted to then point out that for this exact reason it would seem odd that all the characters seem to be so influenced by the West in their sense of dress and speech ... I'll address that in a bit

let me first come back to the fact that you mentioned that there isn't anything to appeal to the average person in India ... but isn't it also true that not every show is designed to cater to the mass audience ... in my humble opinion R.com is supposed to appeal to a middle to upper-class, metropolitan, young adult audience ... and I don't see anything wrong with having a target audience as such ... every show should be allowed to have a niche audience without having to appeal to the masses ... we are all individuals in our own right and should be allowed to have our own likes and dislikes and have a choice in the kinds of television shows we want to watch ...

now having said that I will address the Western influence ... with the target audience I mentioned above the Western influence is completely justified ... I would not like to debate whether this is right or wrong because again the influence of the West on India and the rest of the world is a debate for the debate mansion or a chat in the chat club and not the R.com forum ... whether one likes it or not the metropolitan young adult audience is very often influenced by the West in their sense of speech and dress and if in order to appeal to this target the show applies this facade to the story I see no problem in it ... there are many other shows on television that are set in more rustic, rural settings and I enjoy watching them as well so it is refreshing to me that there is scope for shows with different settings, and dialogue patterns

maybe I'm too late in trying to explain why I like R.com ... maybe I haven't explained convincingly at all ... maybe I've just been rambling above (okay actually this I'm sure of) ... but to sum it up I would say that I like R.com and I respect that you don't ... you are entitled to your opinion ... I'm entitled to mine ... I've always been a supporter of criticism so you won't find me telling you to not watch the show ... please do if you want ... don't if you don't want to ... and I will also not tell you not to point out why you don't like it ... I'm a supporter of freedom of speech and thought and I will read your posts if I can but please don't expect that everyone will always want to respond to them ... if I post something I like about the show, although it is nice to know others agree, they don't have to respond ... similarly if members feel like they have something to say regarding your posts they will otherwise they won't ...

I hope you will take my response in the right light ... I mean I have no intention of hurting your sentiments or anyone else's for that matter ... I just felt like addressing what I thought you had meant and my take on that ... but if I have been out of bounds at any point in my understanding of your posts or have said anything wrong/hurtful I apologize ... I also apologize for the length of my often incoherent ramblings

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!

Hi South Valley California Gal ... I'm sorry maybe my presumption is incorrect but I figured your username stood for that (I remember a reference to California being God's own country I think in one of your posts) ... but again I do apologize I am being too quick to decipher your username and that isn't correct ... but I may have missed your name in your posts and thus I'm not sure what to call you so (with sincere apologies if I'm out of place) I'm just going to go with Ms. Cal Gal ... I'm Tasha

Hi Tasha! You can certainly call me Cal Gal, but if you've read my posts, you'd know my name is Dipa ... and there is no place in Calif. called South Valley (gee, I sure hope not - I HATE being wrong 😆) ... SVale is my abbreviation for the town of Sunnyvale where I live (a stone's throw from San Francisco) ... and if I might ask, why are you apologizing so profusely?! Or hell, maybe you're offering your behind for a whacking, and asking that I needn't be bashful?!! Only kidding of course ... relax ... 😃

I have read some of your posts Ms. Cal Gal ... and although at first my fingers were itching to type a reply, I was wary as I didn't really want to debate the show with you and in all honestly I'm not very good with words and didn't want to say something that you might take in the wrong way ... but after reading this post I can't resist

Glad you couldn't resist ... look at the bright side ... you did not gate crash this party ... there's been an open invitation for any and all to join the fray (I'm now rescinding that open invite because it's cherrio, toodle-oo, pip-pip, and all that rot from me) ... I simply get (justifiably) bent out of shape when there is superciliousness from quarters that have shown not the slightest sign of having graduated to a stage commensurate with that attitude ... and I'm really not convinced that you want to have me believe you to be verbally challenged ...

I also believe that your first post on this forum was meant to be a medium for you to further discuss the above point of view and to engage in a healthy discussion with us about why we may feel differently (I may be mistaken but I understood it to be this ... but again maybe I'm being presumptuous) ...

Hey, I ain't playin' queen, so you can dispense with the groveling act ... besides, it does not come across as sincere ...

and although I understand that you find correct grammar, syntax, spelling, and use of the English language (or French as I have seen you use) very important,

Only for effect ... I speaks plenty of slang too ... and many other forms completely verboten in polite company ... as for my French, it has now become so rusted as to be practically non-existent ... besides, my interest now runs towards Japanese (an irrationally murderous language - avoid it like the plague)

I know that your continued attempts to prove that with Kavi were not looked upon too kindly ... actually maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone as they've not elected me as their official spokesperson so I shall speak for myself ... I did not appreciate it because I was looking more at the thought behind the message rather than editing it ... and although I can look past that to the actual point of your posts, it still is there in my mind and hence I worry about all the mistakes I've made in this response and about how ashamed I will feel that having been born and raised in a country where English (and French) is (are) its first language(s), I still manage to make a thousand mistakes and come off sounding like I've just learned the language yesterday ... so I do once again apologize for any and all of the mistake I have and will make in this response and hope that you won't hold that against me

Oh no ... not me ... won't hold it against you unless you're putting on airs ... why do I get a whiff of that in this bit above? Hmmmm ... maybe it's the 'hey read between the lines lady ... I'm more than easily polyglot' ... OK! Point taken!

I understand that you do not like R.com ... and I think I understood the reasons behind the dislike ... correct me if I'm wrong but from what I gathered you are adverse more to the general state of Indian television and feel that R.com is not as different as it is touted as being from other daily soaps (such as the ones you've been saved from watching as you mentioned) and also feel that in general there aren't any shows that reach the average person in India ...

I correct you?!! Goodness forfend (I have no use for heaven and other celestial sites) that I should do that! But did I say somewhere that the shows do not reach the average person?!! Gosh, if I did, I misspoke ... oh no ... there's truckloads of stuff for the 'average' person ... I thought I had asked about why a total absence of tales about the average Indian (on Indian TV) not related in a manner with strong overtones of being Martian ... everything has to be so over the top ... it's exhausting ...

I can see the point you're trying to make and find myself agreeing on some level about the general state of Indian television but that discussion is probably more appropriate for a chat club or the debate mansion so I will stick to R.com here ... when it comes to R.com I cannot agree with you here ... I'm not going to say that it is the next best thing after the invention of the wheel but I think writing it off as being a story about a resident non-Indian with glitter and glamour is unfair ... I don't think this show should be looked at on an Indian vs non-Indian scale ... personally I've taken it to be the story of two people who learn a few things about love, life, and relationships as they try to run a business ...

Really?! But there's more than 2 people on the show ... purportedly learning about love, life, and relationships ... actually, the only person who appears to be learning is Hozeifa ... he's the most clueless and the most amenable to 'growth' ... the others come across as plenty savvy ... so tell me (actually don't, because I'm not stopping by here again) ... just one example ... it is understandable that a Rohan type would be crude enough to suggest that a 'bar-dancer' ain't the R.com's cuppa tea and dealing with her 'type' risks their reputation ... he has to wait until his 30's (?) to stop being a snot-nosed sh-t?! Life should have taught him well before now to get over his prejudices ... and not snub potential clients ... those relationships are important ... as someone pointed out - he kinda came to his senses but he should sit at your feet to learn a wee bit about apologizing ...

the fact that it is situated in Mumbai and they speak a mixture of Hindi and English ... in my opinion this show could be shot anywhere in the world in any language and the characters would still experience and learn the same things ...

Dear ... experience and learn the same thing?! Maybe ... maybe not ... but if you're pointing to the universality of the 'human condition', then yeah, I agree ...

I'm not comparing R.com to a show like Friends but on one level I do see a similarity ...

I have no idea what Friends is ... I find most American TV to be a thorough abomination (the soaps & sitcoms) ...

the fact that the story is about relationships and how they shape you and the things you can learn from other people and other relationships that can be translated into your own life ... I will admit that some of the things they've learned have not been monumentally life-changing and nor have they been Earth-shattering realities ... but I don't think we go through life having the floor sucked out from under us everyday ... subtle lessons like realizing when you're being a hypocrite, clingy, too nice, jealous, etc. are realizations we do come across in our average lives and seeing the characters of this show go through similar realization processes is entertaining and comforting ...

Goodness! How trite! You make it sound like R.com is so unique in that regard ... why do I think that many a story (in many a medium) has those exact lessons to impart?

now coming back to the Indian vs non-Indian point ... as I said, I feel that this show would work in any language in any setting ... you may be tempted to then point out that for this exact reason it would seem odd that all the characters seem to be so influenced by the West in their sense of dress and speech ... I'll address that in a bit

I'm not tempted at all ... and while I miss seeing native garb, Hinglish is old hat ... it's here to stay ...

let me first come back to the fact that you mentioned that there isn't anything to appeal to the average person in India ...

I doubt very much I said that, if for no other reason than taking great exception to being thought of as 'average' (in height, I am decidedly below-average; weight actually a bit above & I won't venture into the realm of 'intelligence', because I have yet to see it fully defined ... curious thing about that last bit ... I just saw some 'fellow Indian' pontificating about the evolution of 'Intelligence & Consciousness' ... both things of which we don't even have a bad idea, much less a good one).

but isn't it also true that not every show is designed to cater to the mass audience ...

I don't know if that is true ... most of the stuff I watch on local American TV does not appear to be stratified thus ... much like the culture/society in these parts ... I think that was my point ... I keep hoping that that social set-up is not perpetuated ...

in my humble opinion R.com is supposed to appeal to a middle to upper-class, metropolitan, young adult audience ... and I don't see anything wrong with having a target audience as such ... every show should be allowed to have a niche audience without having to appeal to the masses ...

Why am I uncomfortable with this notion of the 'masses'? Wouldn't the basic premise be that most of what is produced have 'wide-appeal'? Isn't it a tad snotty to say 'well, this is targeted for the well heeled' ... which brings me back to that earlier example of Rohan not having learned about egalitarianism ...

we are all individuals in our own right and should be allowed to have our own likes and dislikes and have a choice in the kinds of television shows we want to watch ...

Absolutely! I just wish for more variety!

now having said that I will address the Western influence ... with the target audience I mentioned above the Western influence is completely justified ... I would not like to debate whether this is right or wrong because again the influence of the West on India and the rest of the world is a debate for the debate mansion or a chat in the chat club and not the R.com forum ...

Sorry - but where do I see 'Western influence'? If you speak of the Indian in Mumbai, then what aspect of the West is adopted and espoused? Hate to repeat myself but - egalitarianism (folks there can't even pump their own gas or inflate their tires)? Justice? Philanthropy? Sure hope you're not referring to the dress sense, drinking champagne, or driving a swanky car (you should see my jalopy) ...

there are many other shows on television that are set in more rustic, rural settings and I enjoy watching them as well so it is refreshing to me that there is scope for shows with different settings, and dialogue patterns

Which ones?!! I'd love to see them as well ... I'll confess to not having done an in-depth study but whatever little I've come across does not resemble the rural India I know ...

maybe I'm too late in trying to explain why I like R.com ... maybe I haven't explained convincingly at all ... maybe I've just been rambling above (okay actually this I'm sure of) ... but to sum it up I would say that I like R.com and I respect that you don't ... you are entitled to your opinion ... I'm entitled to mine ... I've always been a supporter of criticism so you won't find me telling you to not watch the show ... please do if you want ... don't if you don't want to ... and I will also not tell you not to point out why you don't like it ... I'm a supporter of freedom of speech

A bunch of us are, even as we 'speak', on the very same 'freedom of speech' bandwagon ... the 'moderating' on IF is getting to be royally irritating ...

and thought and I will read your posts if I can but please don't expect that everyone will always want to respond to them ...

if I post something I like about the show, although it is nice to know others agree, they don't have to respond ... similarly if members feel like they have something to say regarding your posts they will otherwise they won't ...

You're preaching to the choir kiddo ...

I'm not going to address the rest of your post above as I will honestly admit that I have not reached the level you speak of so I can't really comment ... yet

Well, whatchawaitinfer?! Go hit them books! Veritable treasure troves ... I'd recommend you start with either 'Creation' or 'Consilience' by E.O. Wilson (Professor Emeritus at Harvard, heads up their Natural History Museum, wears the most gawd awful clothes & knows more about ants than any other living human - they're frighteningly interesting creatures) ... actually Jared Diamond's 'Collapse' and 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' are fabulous places to start as well ...

But I must now bid you Adieu! All the best!

Originally posted by: SValeCalGal

a society as stratified as that in India exists not elsewhere on the planet ... if there are active efforts promoting a social miscegenation to blur the demarcating lines, they must be few and far between ... that same stratification is manifesting itself in the 'entertainment industry' ...

I'm sure no one in the industry has paid attention to social stratification, Dipa. It is a business after all... All they would think about is the creation of new niche audiences that they could cater to, to boost their product. When the media becomes a business, instead of , well, a medium to disseminate information, to educate and lastly, to entertain, I'm afraid the larger social consequences will be conveniently ignored.

rather than a wholesome smorgasbord from which to choose, we'll be left with sterile serials

That is a problem with mainstream media worldwide, not just in India. Just because we get to see shows of different genres on western television, doesn't automatically imply we're being given a lot of choice. A little sub-textual analysis will reveal that all of them have the same story - of the hegemony of the pop culture. Alternative/independent media producers have been crusading for better representation for decades now, but to no avail. We are all expected to buy and consume the same message, unfortunately...

it's as if in that vast subcontinent there remains not a single solitary story of the resident average Indian ... no middle ground to be had ...

I disagree with you here... How do you propose to define the 'average' Indian? On the basis of socio-economic indicaters like income, status, rural/urban residence? Like you yourself said, India is too stratified to define an average. We could probably work out an average representative of each strata, but arriving at an average spanning the strata is much too collosal a task. That being said, I think we should have stories that all people from all strata can relate to. I never heard of anyone not identifying with anything R.K.Narayanan wrote, for example... Sane and sensible stories are the need of the hour and I have enough faith in the imagination of man and the universal appeal of a good story to believe that such stories would work.


Why am I uncomfortable with this notion of the 'masses'? Wouldn't the basic premise be that most of what is produced have 'wide-appeal'? Isn't it a tad snotty to say 'well, this is targeted for the well heeled' ... which brings me back to that earlier example of Rohan not having learned about egalitarianism ...

I completely agree with what you say about the basic premise being wide appeal. However, niche marketing has its place (I'm not too sure of its suitability to media products, but I'm going to let that pass since I'm in a forgiving mood). I will say, though, that if the Indian TV industry understood the e of egalitarianism, we would not be subjected to the endless and highly tiring 'rural dramas'. Yes, India is in the villages (thank you, Bapuji), but surely we hapless urban-dwellers do not deserve to be ignored so blatantly. I am yet to hear of a village like those portrayed on TV, let alone see one. And the characters on these shows... Dear Lord!!! That, however, is another story, so I will desist...

I think Rishta is better than other shows on TV simply because it has some plot, even if flawed at times. That is infinitely better than some other shows that come to mind (which I will not name for fear of being lynched) where plot is routinely butchered to cater to the egos of the so-called 'stars'... Amongst the decent shows on Indian TV right now, and there are very few, Rishta is good. To me, fiction on TV is something I view to unwind, so it needn't have any pretensions to high reason. As long as there is a pretty face or two, a little humour, a decent story and good production values, I will watch the show and like it too. If intellectual stimulation is what I crave, then I look for it between the covers of a book... not on the aptly named idiot-box.

Absolutely! I just wish for more variety!

Sigh! Don't we all...

Sorry - but where do I see 'Western influence'? If you speak of the Indian in Mumbai, then what aspect of the West is adopted and espoused? Hate to repeat myself but - egalitarianism (folks there can't even pump their own gas or inflate their tires)? Justice? Philanthropy? Sure hope you're not referring to the dress sense, drinking champagne, or driving a swanky car (you should see my jalopy) ...

Dipa, I regret to say that we Indians never seem to learn the best attributes of all the people/cultures we come in contact with. No, I'm not making sweeping statements on the cultural evolution of India (though I believe that it could be extrapolated to cover that) ... but we can't deny that there are a lot of 'westernised' youngsters here. My generation is, to the most part, excessively materialistic, driven by consumerism and yes, influenced by Hollywood's notions of glamour and the high-life. I am like that too, to an extent. I admit I like the idea of swanky limos, parties, fashion, shopping and all the things Hollywood tries to convince us are indispensable... And so do a lot of others - to varying degrees, of course. You may not like it, but it's a fact that the 'western influence' does exist... At the cost of sounding like a shallow-brained butterfly (or moth, if you please, I don't make any claims to the beauty and delicacy of a butterfly) with an unbelievably crazy circle, I personally am acquainted with (or know someone who is acquainted with) people who have encountered nearly all the issues (in the broader sense, of course) that have been shown on Rishta so far... Yes, I belong to a very frivolous generation :D

Egalitarianism, justice, philanthropy? Refer above statement regarding frivolous generation. These are concepts that only a few recognise and apply to their lives... It is a sad sad world that we belong to...

Which ones?!! I'd love to see them as well ... I'll confess to not having done an in-depth study but whatever little I've come across does not resemble the rural India I know ...

Agree agree agree!! I can't be too emphatic about this... This rural India is an imaginary construct. What is with TV these days and the dystopian world view we are being subjected to? No, that isn't merely a rhetorical question... I would really like to know.

I was just as happy not having anyone respond to them!! What I found amusing were the tacit (and behind the scenes) assertions of the 'high-priestesses' that my dislike of R.com showed an unholy lack of 'intellectualism' ... before departing, I just wanted it to be known (to whatever degree) just where my intellectual interests lay ...

I'm not going to speak for anyone here... but I'll admit it was a little annoying to fish out a dictionary each time you posted to figure out what exactly you didn't like about the show... 😃 Come on, Dipa, the show isn't all that bad. No, really, it isn't as bad as you make it out to be...

actually Jared Diamond's 'Collapse' and 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' are fabulous places to start as well ...

'Guns, Germs and Steel' is a great book. I'm glad to know you recommend it to people like I do. When I first heard of the book, I thought it was a futuristic murder mystery! 😃 Then I realised that it was an amazing analysis of the history of the world as it is... and I love it! It whetted my appetite for social anthropology, which I'm now planning to do a masters in... Um, sorry, I think I got carried away... That wasn't very pertinent to the topic.

But I must now bid you Adieu! All the best!

All the best to you too! I must say your language is exemplary... It was a pleasure to read your posts, even if I didn't agree with the content...

Diya - I sure hope you have broad shoulders (at 24 - right?) ... I had so decided to keep my trap shut ... so, the fact I am not, falls squarely on your shoulders ... but, I know that I already like you ... sh-t! I'm actually beginning to appreciate the bright side of R.com ... my carping is bringing some of you out of the woodwork to engage in reasonably meaningful discourse ... I don't especially care that most participants on this forum weigh in on the side of the serial ... but when the occasional kook (your's truly 😊) comes out railing against it, very little is achieved by declaring their stance as being 'pure cr-ap' (and Yasu is permitted to say anything to me with complete impunity), without an adequate explication ... then, my sneering isn't so out of kilter (I sometimes soliloquize about the need to be so severe at my age ... but the likes of P.Z. Myers soon dissuade me from being anything less ... you may enjoy his 'Pharyngula' blog ... he's a biologist ... and acerbic as acerbic can be ... consequently, hilarious) ...

I'm sure no one in the industry has paid attention to social stratification, Dipa.

Of course they haven't!! That's why they're entertainers! But the fact that most of that ilk are apotheosized sticks in my craw something big! Ditto for athletes ... life without them would certainly be less fun, but without the Diamonds of this world, it would pretty much come to a screeching halt (which may not be a bad things considering how homo sapiens ravage the planet) ...

It is a business after all... All they would think about is the creation of new niche audiences that they could cater to, to boost their product. When the media becomes a business, instead of , well, a medium to disseminate information, to educate and lastly, to entertain, I'm afraid the larger social consequences will be conveniently ignored.

Agreed ... which makes it even more of a moral imperative for the likes of you and me to speak out soundly against the nonsense that is dished out ... don't you think?

That is a problem with mainstream media worldwide, not just in India.

Problems need to be dealt with ...

Just because we get to see shows of different genres on western television, doesn't automatically imply we're being given a lot of choice. A little sub-textual analysis will reveal that all of them have the same story - of the hegemony of the pop culture.

If you speak of 'popular television', you're not about to get an argument out of me ... however, in toto we have a tremendous amount of choice ... PBS is only one small part of that ... I love C-Span, Book-TV (that's where I found out how poor E.O. Wilson's dress sense is 😆), BBC, cooking shows, fashion shows (both afford an opportunity to view some singular creativity), Nature shows ... you get my point (I don't want to say more for fear of revealing my addiction to TV) ...

Alternative/independent media producers have been crusading for better representation for decades now, but to no avail. We are all expected to buy and consume the same message, unfortunately...

See above ... one may be expected, but to the sacrificial altar one may choose to not lead oneself ...

I disagree with you here... How do you propose to define the 'average' Indian?

Let me illustrate that 'average' with an example ... Mr. Khosla ... who's Ghosla became more and more elusive by the day ... I have a whole collection of DVDs along those lines ... Most of Benegal's stuff (his latest Sajjanpur sojourn was comme ci comme ca) ...

That being said, I think we should have stories that all people from all strata can relate to. I never heard of anyone not identifying with anything R.K.Narayanan wrote, for example...

I remember reading his stuff back in the dark ages ... I'm not sure it made a tremendous impression ... but senescence is rapidly setting in, so I may have trouble believing myself about that ...

I will say, though, that if the Indian TV industry understood the e of egalitarianism, we would not be subjected to the endless and highly tiring 'rural dramas'.

Refer to my 'moral imperative' demand ... no change will be wrought until it is sought ...

Yes, India is in the villages (thank you, Bapuji), but surely we hapless urban-dwellers do not deserve to be ignored so blatantly.

Behold - the rapid collapse of the rural ... just the other day there was a bit on BBC-News about some peasant selling his farm to the gov't in support of continuing urban sprawl ... he was using the 'hard-earned' money to satiate all of his pre-pubescent son's desires ... the latter was now arriving via chopper to carry off his bride in style 😕...

I think Rishta is better than other shows on TV simply because it has some plot, even if flawed at times.

Diya, every single solitary travesty of a serial (Indian or otherwise) has a plot ... and with no exception - vastly flawed ...

That is infinitely better than some other shows that come to mind (which I will not name for fear of being lynched) where plot is routinely butchered to cater to the egos of the so-called 'stars'...

I'm curious ... you must tell me which ones ... you're not fearing lynching at my hands I hope ... I continually lampoon (well deserved too) KB ... I just had my warning level raised by the semi-literate who 'moderates' that show because I gave a 15 year old pipsqueak a brief lesson in rightfully distinguishing 'daily doze' from 'daily dose' (you can well guess this proud Indian, pristine Hindi speaker's inclination) ... she (the pipsqueak) demanded to know my age and dared me to respond in nothing but Hindi ... which I did ... I'm old enough to be her mother (and yours for that matter) and had our mother-tongue thrust down my gullet as much as any urban-dwelling convent schooling child is subjected to ... thankyeeverrrymuccchhh!!

Amongst the decent shows on Indian TV right now, and there are very few, Rishta is good. To me, fiction on TV is something I view to unwind, so it needn't have any pretensions to high reason. As long as there is a pretty face or two, a little humour, a decent story and good production values, I will watch the show and like it too. If intellectual stimulation is what I crave, then I look for it between the covers of a book... not on the aptly named idiot-box.

You're being unfair to my faithful companion - the idiot box. Actually, Diya, since you demonstrate a liking for snuggling up under the covers of a book, see if you can get your hands on the late (I just learned this dismal fact) Leonard Shlain's "The Goddess and the Alphabet" ... he very persuasively argued for the use of multiple sensory modalities to promote rapid learning (sight and sound at the same time) ... writing is an extremely recent phenomenon, responsible for the rise of patriarchy ... and the idiot box has a lot of very stimulating stuff ... without the pretty face, slim ankle, or ample rear ...

With respect to R.com ... if you would permit me another illustration ... the character of Isha had shades of a conscience ... but it all went down the drain in the Bar-Dancer episode ... when the Rohan person was frothing at the mouth about 'her type', Isha just capitulated ... I would rather she had been made to really take a stand & in the most stentorian tones tell Rohan to take a long walk off that short pier ... same thing with her 'heebie-jeebies' over the Vidisha/Vinay to-do ... Vinay was no saint, suggesting that his indiscretion was not only beyond his control but the seductresses' fault 🤢... and she decides to help him out??!!! Hunh?!! I would have distanced myself from both Herr and demented Frau as fast as my little legs could carry me ... look, if it's drama you're intending, then you cannot introduce, expostulate, and conclude a subject in a single episode ... do that over several ... and you can embellish with other concurrent threads of 'humor' etc ...

Dipa, I regret to say that we Indians never seem to learn the best attributes of all the people/cultures we come in contact with.

NO BLOODY KIDDING!!! Most, who should know better, are so damn caught up in what the late Joseph Campbell characterized as an 'apotheosized past' ...

No, I'm not making sweeping statements on the cultural evolution of India (though I believe that it could be extrapolated to cover that) ... but we can't deny that there are a lot of 'westernised' youngsters here. My generation is, to the most part, excessively materialistic, driven by consumerism and yes, influenced by Hollywood's notions of glamour and the high-life.

Indian culture/society ever not known to be materialistic, driven by consumerism? I'm being unfair, all societies are that ... and a good thing too ... it's human nature (some birds like glitter and glamor too) ... besides, if there were no demand, where would be the need for letting one's creative juices run? Would you that society be bereft of art (which is not just on canvas - I like watercolors)?

I am like that too, to an extent. I admit I like the idea of swanky limos, parties, fashion, shopping and all the things Hollywood tries to convince us are indispensable...

Hollywood's nothing compared to the actual purveyors of such things ... and I too was into shopping (parties I've always detested and cars haven't had much fascination) ...

At the cost of sounding like a shallow-brained butterfly (or moth, if you please, I don't make any claims to the beauty and delicacy of a butterfly)

I will now castigate you ... please stop being anthropomorphic ... butterfly/moth brains are adequate for them and serve them well for their purpose in life ...

I personally am acquainted with (or know someone who is acquainted with) people who have encountered nearly all the issues (in the broader sense, of course) that have been shown on Rishta so far... Yes, I belong to a very frivolous generation :D

Well ... get thee out of it!

Egalitarianism, justice, philanthropy? Refer above statement regarding frivolous generation. These are concepts that only a few recognise and apply to their lives... It is a sad sad world that we belong to...

Does not have to be ... the first step towards change is the conscious avowal of one's shortcomings ...

I'm not going to speak for anyone here... but I'll admit it was a little annoying to fish out a dictionary each time you posted to figure out what exactly you didn't like about the show...

Awww! Sorry! It happens at my age - words sometimes just flow out ...

Come on, Dipa, the show isn't all that bad. No, really, it isn't as bad as you make it out to be...

It's not as good as you suggest ... I'm a hard taskmistress ... I want to champion 'excellence' not placidly settle for the ersatz ... at this point, nothing in it beckons me to continue ...

'Guns, Germs and Steel' is a great book. I'm glad to know you recommend it to people like I do. When I first heard of the book, I thought it was a futuristic murder mystery! Then I realised that it was an amazing analysis of the history of the world as it is... and I love it! It whetted my appetite for social anthropology, which I'm now planning to do a masters in... Um, sorry, I think I got carried away... That wasn't very pertinent to the topic.

Good for you!!! Study hard ... study well ... then go into writing for TV 😆