DOTW: Stories from Uttarkhand - Page 6

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Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#51
Aswamedha timeline: Part 2: Arrival of Rishi Valmiki with Lava and Kusa:

1. Sage Valmiki arrives during the Aswamedha yagna with his 2 disciples Lava and Kusa. He is well received and given a place to stay and treated very well.

2. That night Sage Valmiki asks Kusa and Lava to sing the Ramayan in streets, in huts, in palaces, and even before Ramji (all these buildings were built on the banks of the Gomati for the yagna).

3. He tells them they should sing 20 cantos in a day everywhere. If anyone asks them their parentage they should just say they are disciples of Valmiki.

4. The next morning the 2 kids sing the 20 cantos before Ramji and all the people assembled for the yagna. They love the song and Ramji gives each of the brothers 18,000 gold coins and "whatever they ask for." Kusa and Lava refuse this saying they live in the forest like hermits and they don't need any gold coins.

5. While the performance is going on, the people of Ayodhya start whispering because, and I quote,"both are similar to Sri Rama as a reflection from the original object." When Ramji asks them who they are they just say they are disciples of Sage Valmiki.

6. Rama hears the song for many days. Through the song he comes to know that Lava and Kusa are his sons. He then sends trusted envoys to Sage Valmiki with a message. He sends a message to Valmiki saying that Sita should take an oath in the front of the assembly and Ayodhyavasis giving proof of her purity the next morning. Sage Valmiki accepts.

7. Sage Valmiki then brings Sita. Some in the assembly praise Ramji and some praise Sitaji. Valmiki gives proof that Sita has stayed with him the whole time and the children are his sons.

8. Ramji says that he knows all along that Sita is pure but he has to satisfy the people of Ayodhaya. 😡😡😡 (The avadhis are the worst sinners and a useless mob. 😡😡😡: my opinion).

9. Sita (according to Valmiki does not speak at all other than taking the oath) takes the oath. She says and these are very beautiful words, I quote, "As I have not contemplated anyone other than the scion of Raghu even in mind, so the goddess Madhavi (earth-goddess) may provide space to me. As I worship Shri Rama, in mind, speech, and action, so Madhavi may grant space to me. As I have spoken the truth that I do not know anyone except Shri Rama so Madhavi (earth goddess) may grant space to me."

10. As soon as she says this a beautiful divine throne arises from the earth. Madhavi then takes Sita by the hand, places her on the throne. There is a shower of flowers from the heavens as all devas, Shivji, and Brahmaji are watching from above. There is a cry of amazement from the onlookers. Some are in tears and Ramji is sitting stunned ("as though in meditation").

S_rocha thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#52
sambuk story

Lord Rama, the sat-purusa (ideal man) & the great upholder of dharma, upholds the dharma of slaughtering an innocent Sudra only because he was performing asceticism (tapas). Low-castes like Sudras were not allowed to perform austerities or penances as Brahmins were, because the whole universe could go out of balance when caste divisions are not adhered to. Therefore, Sambuka, only because he was born as a Sudra and was performing the svadharma (caste duty) of a higher caste than his own, was slain by Rama as a sacrifice:

"Thereupon approaching him, Rama said, 'O you of good vows, blessed are you; I do ask you, now, O highly effulgent and grown old in asceticism, in what Varna (caste) are you born? I put this question out of curiosity. I am the son of king Dasaratha and my name is Rama. For what are you going through such hard austerities? Is it heaven or anything else that you pray for? O ascetic, I wish to hear, of the purpose for which you are performing such hard penances. Are you a Brahman, or an irrepressible Ksatriya or the third caste Vaisya or a Sudra? Speak the truth and you shall be crowned with auspiciousness.' Hearing the words of Rama, the ascetic, whose face was downwards, gave out his degraded birth and communicated unto him for what he was performing ascetic observances. Hearing the words of Rama of unwearied actions, the ascetic, with his face downwards, said, 'O highly illustrious Rama, I am born in the race of Sudras; and with a view to reach the region of the celestials with my body I am going through these austere penances. O Kakutstha (Rama), I shall never utter a falsehood since I am willing to conquer the region of gods. I am a Sudra and my name is Sambuka.' The Sudra ascetic having said this, Rama took out of scabbard a beautiful sharp sword and chopped off his head therewith. And that Sudra being slain, Indra, Agni and other celestials praised him again and again and showered flowers." -- Ramayana 7:88-89.
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#53
Aswamedha timeline: Part 3: Grief of Ramji, Ramji does the yagna, passing away of matas:

1. Ramji is overcome with grief at the disappearance of Sita. I quote these beautiful lines, " Weeping long and shedding tears in profusion, possessed of both anger and sorrow, He said "A sorrow unexperienced before is about to overpower my mind...O goddess Earth...please return Sita to me or else I shall show my anger as you know my might...Therefore either return Sita or grant space to me. I will stay with her in the netherworld or in heaven. Please bring that Sita, I have gone mad for her; If you will not give Sita back to me...I shall put you to ruin, with the mountains and forests ruined entirely. I shall destroy the whole earth-may the waters flood over the entire earth."

2. Then Brahmaji consoles him saying that he is Vishnuji and he should not forget that and Sita is Lakshmiji whom he will meet in Vaikunt when this avatar ends. Brahmaji then asks Ramji to listen to the rest of Uttar Khand (what will happen in the future after the yagna). Ramji accepts and then goes into his palace on the Gomati with Kusa and Lava. He spends an unhappy night.

3. Rama never recovers from his grief after this. Nevertheless, the next morning he listens to the rest of the Uttar Khand sung by his sons. Then he wraps up the yagna and goes with back to Ayodhya, grief-stricken, with his sons.

4. He rules wonderfully for 10,000 years and he does many yagnas and 10,000 Aswamedha yagnas also. He never marries again but keeps the golden Sita by his side.

5. Then the mata pass away. Bharata captures Ghandhara with his sons and Yudhajit.

6. Finally all leave with Shri Ram. I think that one I have posted already at the beginning of this topic, how Ramji goes back to Vaikunt with Bharat and Satrughan and how Lakshman leaves before them.

Jai Shri Ram


Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#54
Guys, I really have to get back to my normal routine. Chandra, I hope all your timeline questions have been answered. I hope all of you enjoy the stories as much as I enjoyed it.
ananyacool thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#55

Originally posted by: S_rocha

sambuk story

Lord Rama, the sat-purusa (ideal man) & the great upholder of dharma, upholds the dharma of slaughtering an innocent Sudra only because he was performing asceticism (tapas). Low-castes like Sudras were not allowed to perform austerities or penances as Brahmins were, because the whole universe could go out of balance when caste divisions are not adhered to. Therefore, Sambuka, only because he was born as a Sudra and was performing the svadharma (caste duty) of a higher caste than his own, was slain by Rama as a sacrifice:

"Thereupon approaching him, Rama said, 'O you of good vows, blessed are you; I do ask you, now, O highly effulgent and grown old in asceticism, in what Varna (caste) are you born? I put this question out of curiosity. I am the son of king Dasaratha and my name is Rama. For what are you going through such hard austerities? Is it heaven or anything else that you pray for? O ascetic, I wish to hear, of the purpose for which you are performing such hard penances. Are you a Brahman, or an irrepressible Ksatriya or the third caste Vaisya or a Sudra? Speak the truth and you shall be crowned with auspiciousness.' Hearing the words of Rama, the ascetic, whose face was downwards, gave out his degraded birth and communicated unto him for what he was performing ascetic observances. Hearing the words of Rama of unwearied actions, the ascetic, with his face downwards, said, 'O highly illustrious Rama, I am born in the race of Sudras; and with a view to reach the region of the celestials with my body I am going through these austere penances. O Kakutstha (Rama), I shall never utter a falsehood since I am willing to conquer the region of gods. I am a Sudra and my name is Sambuka.' The Sudra ascetic having said this, Rama took out of scabbard a beautiful sharp sword and chopped off his head therewith. And that Sudra being slain, Indra, Agni and other celestials praised him again and again and showered flowers." -- Ramayana 7:88-89.

S_rocha: are you sure that 7-88-89 is the story of Shambuka?? Or is it another (deliberate) mistake of your's??🤢

You obviously have copy-pasted this translation from a site full of grossly misinterpreted verses . How is that you post without cross-verifying?? 😡😡

7-88,89 is the story of Chandravanshi Pururava, son of Budha and Ila.

Originally posted by: S_rocha

O highly effulgent and grown old in asceticism, in what Varna (caste) are you born?

Varna and Caste are NOT the same

Varna is aptitude , a mental attribution.

Caste or Jati refers to the birth of a human being. Jati is derived from 'J^ata' which means 'Of birth'

During the first three yugas (Satya/Krita, Treta and Dwapar) a person of Shudra Varna was not allowed to perform tapasya; which was a rule .

a person of shudra jati was allowed to take up austerities . Stark examples of this are Shabari and 'Satyakam' Jabali

(Jabali was one of the priest in Ramji's court. He didn't know who his biological father was and his mother jabala was of shudra jati, yet Jabali could obtain education and knowledge from rishi Gautam. He earned the title of Satyakam not because he just spoke the truth always but he dared to call a spear a spear; he was a great reformist and a thinker par excellence.)

Now coming to why only Shambuka was punished??

Shambuka told Lord Rama that he is a Shudra and he is doing Tapasya to enter Deva Loka 'sa-sharira'- as it is, with body (7-76-2)

I do not speak false, O' Kakustha but I want to conquer Devaloka and thats why I have undertaken severe penance. ( Tapa ugra samaasthitam) 7-76-3

Entering devaloka as it is?

This privilege was only given rishi Sharbhanga who denied it because he wanted to meet Rama. Shabari too obtains salvation not only because she hosted Rama but for her austerities

Note that a tapasya always has to be done with a good intention ; of helping the world . Whereas Shambuka doesn't seem to have one.

Rishi Vishwamitra too had to go rigourous penance for several years to become a "Brahmarishi"

When Lord Rama heard that Shambhuka was trying to conquer Deva Loka he beheaded Shambhuka. Then Indra and other Devas appear and shower flowers over Lord Rama. It is quite clear from the story that Indra and other Devas were relieved that Rama stopped Shambhuka from trying to conquer Deva Loka. Devas told him that since Shambhuka's unethical power grab of Deval Loka has been stopped, the son of the Brahmana is now living.(7-76-7 to 11)

(I am sorry but just couldn't ignore this troll accusing; this is one issue that Ram-bashers use as an ultimate weapon against Ramji)
Sorry if anyone doesn't like it ,I'll edit my post)
Edited by ananyacool - 16 years ago
Khalrika thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#56

Originally posted by: ananyacool

S_rocha: are you sure that 7-88-89 is the story of Shambuka?? Or is it another (deliberate) mistake of your's??🤢

You obviously have copy-pasted this translation from a site full of grossly misinterpreted verses . How is that you post without cross-verifying?? 😡😡

7-88,89 is the story of Chandravanshi Pururava, son of Budha and Ila.
Varna and Caste are NOT the same

Varna is aptitude , a mental attribution.

Caste or Jati refers to the birth of a human being. Jati is derived from 'J^ata' which means 'Of birth'

During the first three yugas (Satya/Krita, Treta and Dwapar) a person of Shudra Varna was not allowed to perform tapasya; which was a rule .

a person of shudra jati was allowed to take up austerities . Stark examples of this are Shabari and 'Satyakam' Jabali

(Jabali was one of the priest in Ramji's court. He didn't know who his biological father was and his mother jabala was of shudra jati, yet Jabali could obtain education and knowledge from rishi Gautam. He earned the title of Satyakam not because he just spoke the truth always but he dared to call a spear a spear; he was a great reformist and a thinker par excellence.)

Now coming to why only Shambuka was punished??

Shambuka told Lord Rama that he is a Shudra and he is doing Tapasya to enter Deva Loka 'sa-sharira'- as it is, with body (7-76-2)

I do not speak false, O' Kakustha but I want to conquer Devaloka and thats why I have undertaken severe penance. ( Tapa ugra samaasthitam) 7-76-3

Entering devaloka as it is?

This privilege was only given rishi Sharbhanga who denied it because he wanted to meet Rama. Shabari too obtains salvation not only because she hosted Rama but for her austerities

Note that a tapasya always has to be done with a good intention ; of helping the world . Whereas Shambuka doesn't seem to have one.

Rishi Vishwamitra too had to go rigourous penance for several years to become a "Brahmarishi"

When Lord Rama heard that Shambhuka was trying to conquer Deva Loka he beheaded Shambhuka. Then Indra and other Devas appear and shower flowers over Lord Rama. It is quite clear from the story that Indra and other Devas were relieved that Rama stopped Shambhuka from trying to conquer Deva Loka. Devas told him that since Shambhuka's unethical power grab of Deval Loka has been stopped, the son of the Brahmana is now living.(7-76-7 to 11)

(I am sorry but just couldn't ignore this troll accusing; this is one issue that Ram-bashers use as an ultimate weapon against Ramji)
Sorry if anyone doesn't like it ,I'll edit my post)



Ananya, please don't edit. It is high time everyone read your reply to this rocha person. Yes, a lot of 'fashion bashers' use this against Ramji. Ramji never does anything without thinking. If he hated people because of their 'caste' why did he accept Shabari, Nishad raj Guha, the Vanars (after all they were only monkeys), and even Rakshas (Vibishna and his pariwar)? This accusation made by this rocha person is ridiculous.
Rocha, here are Sambuka's exact words and the reason why Ramji beheaded him. I quote, " I desire godhood Shri Rama with this body. I do not speak the untruth as I wish to conquer the world of the gods..."
Rama first asks him "what object is desired by you to be obtained as a boon?" Then Sambukha says he wants to conquer the world of the gods which is why Rama beheads him. He did the same to Ravan too and Ravan was a Brahmin by birth. If Ramji was so 'caste' conscious, why did he kill Ravan who was a Brahmin?
All ur accussations and condemnations are ridiculous.
I don't mean to insult anyone or any community with my posts. It is just that this Rocha and her/his obnoxious posts need to be answered.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#57

Originally posted by: Mandodari



Ananya, please don't edit. It is high time everyone read your reply to this rocha person. Yes, a lot of 'fashion bashers' use this against Ramji. Ramji never does anything without thinking. If he hated people because of their 'caste' why did he accept Shabari, Nishad raj Guha, the Vanars (after all they were only monkeys), and even Rakshas (Vibishna and his pariwar)? This accusation made by this rocha person is ridiculous.
Rocha, here are Sambuka's exact words and the reason why Ramji beheaded him. I quote, " I desire godhood Shri Rama with this body. I do not speak the untruth as I wish to conquer the world of the gods..."
Rama first asks him "what object is desired by you to be obtained as a boon?" Then Sambukha says he wants to conquer the world of the gods which is why Rama beheads him. He did the same to Ravan too and Ravan was a Brahmin by birth. If Ramji was so 'caste' conscious, why did he kill Ravan who was a Brahmin?
All ur accussations and condemnations are ridiculous.
I don't mean to insult anyone or any community with my posts. It is just that this Rocha and her/his obnoxious posts need to be answered.

Wonderful superb explanations Ananya and Mandodari!👏 Ananya, Mandodari is right, please do not edit your post, as it shows the true story of Shambhuk. I also had a doubt why Shambhuk was killed. Of course, I NEVER doubted Ramji's decision, because I knew there had to be a reason for everything he did, but you cleared my doubt. Shambhuk was doing Tapasya for bad reasons, so he had to be killed. Thank you for posting this story.👏
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#58
I also wanted to say: thanks for everyone who posted stories from Uttar Kand here. I wasn't able to quote each and every story, but I really appreciate it to all those who did.⭐️
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#59
Thanks Lalitha. I enjoyed posting the stories.

As far as Sambuka is concerned, many scholars of Ramayan think that it was a later addition, added after the society became more closed.



Edited by Mandodari - 16 years ago
Khalrika thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#60
Here is a link about the fluidity of the system in ancient times.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0702/96.html

So, Rocha, please stop this nonsense and creating divisions in the forum.

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