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Roop Choudhary

@JMGlover

Inactive

Posted: 16 years ago

#21

I'VE NOT UNDERSTUD WAT IS TO BE DUN IN THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!11

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rajnish kumar

@_rajnish_

Inactive

Posted: 16 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: rups.12bloom
I'VE NOT UNDERSTUD WAT IS TO BE DUN IN THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!11

rups dear we will discuss in this thread those topics which is not related to ramayan.

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: akhl
I asked why it is abortion in case of rape is justified. I got responses, which I was not aware of. And those are very good responses.

I think there is one more reason why some women (and also her family) want abortion if she conceives because of rape. The reason is that many people in soceity (especially in India) look down upon women, who are victims of rape. Therefore, they tried to hide it.

A few months back, I read a news in newspaper. A few years back, a girl was raped. Her family complained to authorities. But the culprit was not punished. Then the girl's family stopped persuing the matter. In the mean time, the girl got married. The law took its course and after a few years, the culpirt was punished by court.

The media people met the girl's parents and also the girl and congratulated them on their victory.

The girl's parent were very angry. They said, "Our daughter is happily married. Then why are these media people letting everybody know that she was once raped. Now those who did not know earlier, they also know. He husband did not know and now he knows."

The girls also said that it was not right to let everybody know about the incident.

So, as you see, in spite of so much of developments, there are still many people in society who look upon a victim of rape with disgust.

In my opinion, such a mentality should immediately change. It is utterly stupid and ridiculous to blame the victim for a crime. For every crime, the criminals should be blamed, not the victims.

Wow, I can't believe there are people out there who blame the victim for rape!😕 That is utterly crazy and makes no sense at all!

My third sister is in High School, and her class does a lot of projects and discussions on these social issues of morality. In America, there is a large support system for victims of rape, and they do everything in their power to help the victim cope with her situation and give tons of support to her and her family. The sad thing is that many victims feel ashamed that they were raped, and feel it is their fault, so they refuse help. I can't ever imagine being in that situation. It's just so terrible...

It's also terrible that there are still those who look down upon girls who are raped.😲 What's the reason? I just don't understand. When one is raped, they have no control over their situation whatsoever. How are they to be blamed?

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#24

Originally posted by: rups.12bloom
I'VE NOT UNDERSTUD WAT IS TO BE DUN IN THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!11

Recently, some threads started that have nothing to do with the Ramayan, but are still good discussions because they focus on ethical and moral issues. So Akhl started this thread for those kinds of discussions.

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Charu

@Krinya

Trailblazer

+ 8

Posted: 16 years ago

#25

Originally posted by: akhl
Originally posted by godisone.

Before I read this poem, my views on abortion were very unclear. I didn't know whether I was against it or not. I mean, I never supported it, but I didn't know exactly how I felt about it. I don't want to say too much on this subjet, because there are children on this forum also, but my opinon is that someone who conceives a child, even by accident, knowing full well what they were doing, has the responsibility to keep the child, because once conceived, a baby is a baby, and it has life the minute, no, second, that it was conceived, but what about rape? What about all those innocent women who get pregnant when it is completely out of their power? I can't make an opinion abotu their responsibility, because something like rape causes such trauma for a woman, and unwanted pregnancy alongside with that trauma is terrible for that woman. Is abortion wrong for them? Yet...it is not the baby's fault any of that happened, so...I don't know what's right or wrong in the case of rape.

Personally, I'm against abortion, always have been, and after reading this poem, my belief strengthened, but I don't want to outright say that it is wrong either, in the case of rape, because the situation is tough for both the mother and baby in that case, and both have equal claims to justice. What should be done?

What's your opinion on this subject? And if you guys think this topic is inappropriate, mods can close it, but I don't know where else to discuss this. Is there a separate forum for this kind of subject?

nice topic....i believe, every individual case is different...I am not that much against abortions..that's because if a couple or family can't raise a child properly, that child has a miserable life, specially a girl child, then why not end his life when he has not seen it at all? A girl child in our poverty ridden country, in small villages and towns, is expolited, she's humiliated , she's considered an object of sex only...a girl child is raped, she's exploited, she's beaten up, she works as domestic helps in big bunglows, she's sometimes sold by her parents!!! for such people, abortion must be made legal..infact govt. must stop them from having children!

i hate to watch street children begging on roads!! WHY did their parents gave birth to them? to give them this life? middle class couples who don't have time for each other, both are working, they don't have time for the child, then why bring him to this world? I heard about a working couple who left their child to the maid everyday!! all the time he was with the maid! God knows what that maid does with the kid everyday! i hate to think!!! In such cases, abortions is the best option!! if you can't give a good life to your child then you have no right to bring him in this world!!

But as i said, the case differs from person to person....

Charu

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Charu

@Krinya

Trailblazer

+ 8

Posted: 16 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: Durga1994

I agree with you completely purvi di! I feel so sad whenever I hear of abortions done by parents who just don't want their children.😭 In cases of Rape or Incest, I think it is different, but in other cases, I feel that abortion should not be allowed.

In my High School, we had a project in Morality Class where we had to research and talk to the class about different issues on morality( ex: rape, abortion, child abuse, etc), and one girl who had the topic of Abortion told us all the different ways abortion was done, and some of the procedures were just so terrible. I left that class with a totally different view on abortion that day.

it's a pity that even educated people do this, those who know about contraceptions...but even if it happens by accident, i believe if someone can't give a good upbringing to a child then it's better to get them aborted..BUT I'm not supporting those who can afford BUT purposely have the girl child aborted bec. of her sex.....it's our society which is responsibe for such thinking and traditions which we r following from ages!

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#27

Originally posted by: akhl
One question.
Why do you think that abortion is justified in case of rape.?

Note: - I am not saying that it is not justified. I am asking this question to understand your point of view in more detail.

......................................
I asked why it is abortion in case of rape is justified. I got responses, which I was not aware of. And those are very good responses.

I think there is one more reason why some women (and also her family) want abortion if she conceives because of rape. The reason is that many people in soceity (especially in India) look down upon women, who are victims of rape. Therefore, they tried to hide it.

Akhl

There were 2 parts to your question - one was the case of rape, and other was the case of incest (sex between 2 people biologically related to each other). Allow me to answer the second first.

In the case of incest, one risks bringing into society a person that would inherently be somewhat retarded almost by default, since that's what sex between relatives does. In the US some time ago, there was the case of a teenage girl who was impregnated by her brother and her parents had her have a very late term abortion, something like 8 months into the process. This was very controversial and had pro-life protesters hot, but the family decided that they didn't want to bring in somebody who would almost certainly be a liability to society. (This is different from the case of biologically unrelated parents who give birth to challenged babies - the latter is more often than not something that can be worked on.) As it is, it's a controversial issue on whether mental deficiency is a legitimate reason to either abort somebody or kill somebody (as in assisted suicide), but I think that in a case like incest where the outcome is almost certain, the general opinion favors abortion.

On the case of rape, you used the sociological observation that in India, victims get stigmatized, but that's true even in less patriarchal societies in the West. I don't think the main reason for this opinion is victims being stigmatized. Rather, reason that rape victims are allowed abortions is that in the absence of that, their rapists get the satisfaction of having raped their victims, and forcing them to procreate the offspring of their rapists looks to most people like doubly punishing the girl: first, she was forced to have sex with somebody she didn't want to, and to make matters worse, she was forced to make sacrifices for the child of that rapist. I understand the argument of those who say that the child is innocent, but I think that rights are something that only exist when they can be had without depriving someone else of something.

The reason any of us has a right to life is that we can all breathe and freely exist without jeopardizing the existance or well being of another person. We don't exactly have the right to food, or right to a job, or right to a car, or right to a home, because all of these have to be taken from someone else if we don't have something of equivalent value to pay him/her. If person A living meant person B dying, life wouldn't be a right. The reason it is is because the above condition does not apply.

But this is different for foetuses - when they are created, their mothers pretty much have to radically alter their physical lives for the next 9 months, and are making a huge sacrifice by doing this. Granted, most women happily married would be more than happy to make that, although there are enough selfish ones who don't, or who aren't willing to accept the consequences of accidental pregnancies. However, to expect such sacrifices of a woman who's been forced into that predicament by somebody not responsible for her well being is a very big negation of justice.

Other than rape and incest, I do think that women who get pregnant but don't want their baby should adapt them out, and then live with that decision for the rest of their lives - don't try to repossess those babies once they are happily settled in the adaptive family.

Hope my comments haven't offended anyone. But Akhl, I think those are the reasons why incest and rape are looked at very differently from other more naturally caused pregnancies.

Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago

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rajnish kumar

@_rajnish_

Inactive

Posted: 16 years ago

#28

Beware of websites
I am writing this on the basis of my personal experience. It is a request to all don't believe in content of websites. Please don't read any holy book online. If you want to read any scriptures buy the original don't read online publication of any holy book as there is so many variations, many many unauthentic things being added in these book

Many people i found yet use internet and Google to know the stories of our epic. but they don't realize that internet has so many unauthentic things. people instead of being aware of reality starts believing in these crap things. people in internet deliberately post these stories to send wrong message to mankind. they write there own views to spread there msg. for example you can check these sites

http://humanists.net/avijit/article/oh_hindu_awake.htm

http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/s_es/s_es_kishw_sitaram.htm

recently in news paper and T.V news i had seen the same issue. there survey said many of the things about our scriptures and religion in internet are wrong. I don't know why the people are doing this😕. By reading these things People start believing those point of view which is wrong. recently this forum has been affected a lot because a person believing in internet version of valmiki ramayan and ramcharitramanas posted wrong and crap info about virtuous characters of Ramayana. recently a person in KHMK forum mocked at virtuous character of MB because he also would have believed the point of view in internet.😕

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 16 years ago

#29

Originally posted by: rajnish_here
Beware of websites
I am writing this on the basis of my personal experience. It is a request to all don't believe in content of websites. Please don't read any holy book online. If you want to read any scriptures buy the original don't read online publication of any holy book as there is so many variations, many many unauthentic things being added in these book

Many people i found yet use internet and Google to know the stories of our epic. but they don't realize that internet has so many unauthentic things. people instead of being aware of reality starts believing in these crap things. people in internet deliberately post these stories to send wrong message to mankind. they write there own views to spread there msg. for example you can check these sites

http://humanists.net/avijit/article/oh_hindu_awake.htm

http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/s_es/s_es_kishw_sitaram.htm

recently in news paper and T.V news i had seen the same issue. there survey said many of the things about our scriptures and religion in internet are wrong. I don't know why the people are doing this😕. By reading these things People start believing those point of view which is wrong. recently this forum has been affected a lot because a person believing in internet version of valmiki ramayan and ramcharitramanas posted wrong and crap info about virtuous characters of Ramayana. recently a person in KHMK forum mocked at virtuous character of MB because he also would have believed the point of view in internet.😕

I agree. In my youngest sister's English class, the teacher has assigned a huge research project in which they cannot use google or any other search engine for their research, but only the research databases their school offers (which were called scholarly sources by respected authors).

I would also like to tell this to everyone: the Sagars' Ramayans are more reliable than all these cheap internet works. It's not that Internet is bad or anything. It's just that anyone can post on Internet, so it's not reliable, no matter who wrote the article. There are so many hackers out there who take delight in changing information, so just don't place too much importance in internet.

The best reliable source out of all is the original book by Valmiki. There is also Ramcharitmanas and Tulsidas's Ramayan.

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purvi

@coolpurvi

Voyager

Posted: 16 years ago

#30

Originally posted by: luv_khwaish
[
nice topic....i believe, every individual case is different...I am not that much against abortions..that's because if a couple or family can't raise a child properly, that child has a miserable life, specially a girl child, then why not end his life when he has not seen it at all? A girl child in our poverty ridden country, in small villages and towns, is expolited, she's humiliated , she's considered an object of sex only...a girl child is raped, she's exploited, she's beaten up, she works as domestic helps in big bunglows, she's sometimes sold by her parents!!! for such people, abortion must be made legal..infact govt. must stop them from having children!

i hate to watch street children begging on roads!! WHY did their parents gave birth to them? to give them this life? middle class couples who don't have time for each other, both are working, they don't have time for the child, then why bring him to this world? I heard about a working couple who left their child to the maid everyday!! all the time he was with the maid! God knows what that maid does with the kid everyday! i hate to think!!! In such cases, abortions is the best option!! if you can't give a good life to your child then you have no right to bring him in this world!!

But as i said, the case differs from person to person....

Charu

yup girl child is the worst victim of abortion. I did a project on female feticide and infanticide. The statistics are horrible. just see the sex ratio of our country. Sex ratio is quite nornal in normal n condition of women is not bad in North East. I read that in 1980 when sex dermination techqnique wan newly launched slogan like this were written outside some sonography clinic " Pay 500 now save future 5000"---- thus people were encouraged to feticide.

We can't blame our laws. dowry n insecurity that parent feel in upbringing a girl child in some remote arears n rural areas r the cause of it

so far a street children are concerned I dont think abortion can solve this problem. I dont agree with u what u said in ur second para

A child in womb under hinduinsm is a person. Under hinduism aborting is considered as killing. Birth begins with conception

The decision of abortion shud not be taken in haste

Edited by coolpurvi - 16 years ago