vegetarianism Vs the Non-vegentarianism - Page 3

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K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: charminggenie



@Mr K , once at some discussion regarding this , I was offered conservation of energy as a reason why eating meat makes sense.The assumption considered life and death as irrelevant and rather this facilitates reorganization of energy from one being to another.




That is where I guess I was headed but looks like you jumped the gun so getting there sooner than I expected is not such a bad idea, I suppose. But let's take this slowly and not make it as frenzied a discussion as the one we had in the other debate. Which means, more thinking and less posting :)

If it is all about energy transformations, and changing from one form to another, then why does life seek to survive in one form? In other words, it shouldn't matter to life, if it exists in the deer form or a lion form or a human form as long as energy exists in one form, correct? But in reality, the lion is trying to survive in its current form, and so is the deer and so are we. Which means, pockets of energy do not want to transform...
charminggenie thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#22
Well finally we have the physics out in the open. That was the intent behind the topic. So thanks for taking the cue, Mr K!

Interesting to note the use of life. Clever. But considering how rustic my Physics is, I will stick to the subject purity and use energy to frame my thoughts.

If it is all about energy transformations, and changing from one form to another, then why does life seek to survive in one form? In other words, it shouldn't matter to life, if it exists in the deer form or a lion form or a human form as long as energy exists in one form, correct?

Assuming you consider living beings as an open system then the first and second law of thermodynamics will enter the picture.
So we have total amount of energy in the universe as constant. It has to undergo a degree of disorder to evolve life or processes. Hence the transformation. Every micro sec and even lesser our body is undergoing the energy transformations to cater the survival. So if energy is content in one form and is not changed into another there won't be any life or any being.

This facilitates the cells to undergo the bodily processes, resulting in hunger and the need for this energy. That is why a deer or a human won't exist if they refuse to abide by this conservation of energy.

But in reality, the lion is trying to survive in its current form, and so is the deer and so are we. Which means, pockets of energy do not want to transform...

Efficiency of energy in any any system/ process is never 100% -this includes our food chain. Hence the resistance to being on the dinner table can be understood and attributed to the said portion of the total energy in that being ( Can this be called as - Waste energy) .
Honestly, personally I read this resistance as one of an involuntary actions , won't think the cells of the being are restive. If the survival is a desire so is the need for food, it has to go both ways inorder to maintain the balance.

@Keyword - Rustic!😊
K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#23
Genie, I would like to linger on Biology a little bit longer, if you don't mind.

If everything is energy, why do only some pockets of energy, that we refer to as life, have the burning desire to survive? Survive from what? Is there a good reason?

Interesting that you thought that cells of a being are not resistive, only the whole of the being is. We will get to that too, but how about we start off with a microbial organism, say, fungi. Some of them prey on tiny protozoa and roundworms like nematodes. So, it is not like the predator-prey relationships exist only at a level visible to the naked eye; they exist even at the microscopic level. They desire to survive too. They want to absorb nutrients too, from any source that they can get their hyphae on.

Coming to our body, what do you think the white blood cells are up to? They are of course fighting against infectious diseases and foreign materials every second of their lives. They are resisting. They are ether killing or being killed.

So, this pattern of one life form against another seems to be the norm anywhere we look. I only question why it is so.
charminggenie thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#24
Genie, I would like to linger on Biology a little bit longer, if you don't mind.
As long as we don't dwell in the pits of conscious and emotions, I am game for anything.

If everything is energy, why do only some pockets of energy, that we refer to as life, have the burning desire to survive? Survive from what? Is there a good reason?
I see this to be intended towards the "reproduce or die" theory.Though putting aside my skeptimism I feel it gives a solid reason for our survival instinct. The replication is the basic program on which the template of "life" seems to have been created.
This , lets call this, purpose ,could be a result of a singular or cohorts of mutations, which managed to pass through generations. Of course it's evolution in terms of behavior varies from one entity to another.


Interesting that you thought that cells of a being are not resistive, only the whole of the being is. We will get to that too, but how about we start off with a microbial organism, say, fungi. Some of them prey on tiny protozoa and roundworms like nematodes. So, it is not like the predator-prey relationships exist only at a level visible to the naked eye; they exist even at the microscopic level. They desire to survive too. They want to absorb nutrients too, from any source that they can get their hyphae on.

Coming to our body, what do you think the white blood cells are up to? They are of course fighting against infectious diseases and foreign materials every second of their lives. They are resisting. They are ether killing or being killed.

So, this pattern of one life form against another seems to be the norm anywhere we look. I only question why it is so.

I think cells can be non-resistive , as evident from the rapid uncontrolled reproduction in some cases, don't know if cancer cells sound like an apt example but will cite them here. Then to balance it, came the mutation, they vary from generation or cell to cell.

And I concur your point that fungi and even some yeast in cases do display a certain degree of survival instinct, where I feel this intent develops according to the mode of reproduction. There has to be a certain type of aberration to make them develop this instinct.

I don't think the foreign materials or microbes fight or resist, they are different to the internal body system and hence it takes time for WBC to program itself according to the new entrant. I doubt the microbe ever changes its reactions/processes based on the attack of WBC. The whole gambit is to maintain the internal balance and the onus is solely on WBC to do so even if it means engulfing the foreign bodies. I don't see resistance in it rather adaption by WBC.

Underline what Angie suggested - Homeostasis

@ Blue- That is generalizing , one form of life is more likely to be complementary to another rather than the pitying contest. But for the sake of the thought, it has to do so to maintain the balance, to check the replication and to limit the system in some way.


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