Blast from the Past Thread #7, ep 87, pg 119 - Page 64

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Crazy4IPK thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
@Indi
Thanks for your beautiful comments.
thanks for starting with that heartfelt and sincere gesture. this is indeed for cynthia. and you have written the feelings so beautifully. shashi ji was an incredible parent. he was sharp, sensitive, and progressive in his views. wanted his girls to do well, supported them and tried not to banish them to a dark little corner just because they were girls. the sort of parents that every girl in india deserves to have. never to be compared with boys and found wanting. interestingly, there never was any desire for son expressed by shashi ji or garima. and garima was fascinating; a mother, both whose daughters were not biologically her own, yet they were more hers than anyone else's.


 many things in ipk chalenged convention and stereotype, and are worth learning from. 
I absolutely agree with you.IPK was unique that's why we are still hanging there. That's why we just can't move on.

mami is a sharp one. the character is so colourful and interesting, and really you do meet people like this who can be quite bizarre at one level, but pretty canny to and sometimes very loving.
mami got the keenest eyes. remember she first found Khushi's anxiety when Arnav was kidnapped.
thanks for that lovely last para. and the vm.

it's my pleasure. Did you read the lyrics? it was so deep significant.
@Wiwy
Thanks my friend.
There is no body like parents.
Khushi and Sashi's relationship is really beautiful.
Like you, i'm also very attached with my Dad and mom also.
Very sweet of you Sohara to dedicate this episode to Cynthia. No one can love us like our parents do. I am so close to my father and that Shashi-Khushi bonding made me so emotional! Lovely analysis and VM.πŸ‘
Crazy4IPK thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: wiwy

 
I don't know about my sauten, but actually its not a bad idea you (and maybe Sohara too!) giving him massages! That will keep him warm and relaxed ! And then scoot, please, sir !  I will take over, sir! What say? πŸ˜†

hey who is whose sauten. Barun is mine. I don't have any sauten. Neither Pashmeen Manchanda.πŸ˜†
In my fantasy he is only mine.You know, I can't share my man with anybody in my fantasy.hehehhe.
wiwy, plz, don't embarrass me. I'm still blushing imagining the massage!☺️
aina123 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
reliving ipk is awesome guys, I will be away for couple of weeks. Easter break so going to India on holidays, will miss u all and arshi too.
Katelyn thumbnail
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Ocean of Happiness

Posted: 11 years ago
^ @ aina123
Sounds like fun!  Have a great time!  Since you will be in India, I hope you'll get to meet Barun!!  πŸ˜ƒ  Take care!!
cinthiann1758 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: wiwy

Very sweet of you Sohara to dedicate this episode to Cynthia. No one can love us like our parents do. I am so close to my father and that Shashi-Khushi bonding made me so emotional! Lovely analysis and VM.πŸ‘


Sohara, I am so deeply touched by your thought and this dedication.  I am trying to get back to reality.  I started writing but I am going slowly because I know these episodes are coming and my wounds are too raw right now. Your words are so beautiful and so is the episode.  I know the pain of losing a father but it is nothing compared to losing your mother, (my POV).  Arnav didn't want to share that pain with anyone especially Kushi, it was way to intimate.  Your heart feels like it is breaking every single moment and sometimes for me it is hard to take a deep breath.  I pray to G-d that he relieves my pain quickly because this adult woman feels like a toddler who is lost.  Thank you again for caring so much about me to even consider this dedication.  I am honored and blessed by you.  May you also be blessed.XO 😭Cyn
cinthiann1758 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago

Episode 78


                      

Will You Marry Me?

With clasped hands and high hopes Lavanya watches as ASR, ah,um Arnavji, grabs her dupatta and throws it above her head.  Our loving, beautiful dupatta always has a mind of her own and that mind coexists with Devi Maiyya and lands right on top of Kushi's head.  The conch sounds and there she is, in all her innocence, doe eyed, with the veil draped over her head; a drape thrown by none other than Arnav Singh Raizada.  Her thoughts of words she just shared with Lavanya; words her mother told her about when a man holding a veil throws it and when it lands on your head you two will surely unite in marriage, no one will be able to stop it. (I should have realized this when I was anxious later on when I was unsure, for that split second, whether he would show up at their remarriage).

As he walks out of the room he sees Kushi, veil on her head, and he stops, turns, I see his eyes just sink to his heart ( I can't explain what I mean), Rabba Ve.  The love I know he has for her I see all over his face especially in his eyes.  I know he doesn't realize it yet but that look, OMG my heart Dhak, Dhak!!!! She just stares at him in disbelief.  What does this mean?  He walks away, looks back and she looks up at him. sigh…..

Lavanya comes out of the room grabs the dupatta and says they have a big problem.  Little do you know how big of a problem La!  At the dining table the girls are dicussing the demise of Lavanya; her time is running out.  Mami says Kushi failed how is Akash going to ever marry.  Nani insists Chote will marry first and tells her son that Manorama has taken a vow of silence for a few days.  Nani made a funny!!!  Anyway Nani wants to know where Kushi is and Arnav pays attention.

Kushi and Lavanya are in her bedroom.Kushi offers the anxious La chane.  Lavanya is upset Kushi's plan didn't work.  Kushi offers again La partakes.  Kushi asks want to prepare jalebi?  Lavanya answers no she just wants to marry ASR.  What should she do she asks Kushi.  It's a tough thing talking marriage with Arnav Singh Raizada, Kushi says.  She thinks and comes up with an IDEA!!!  She tells Lavanya if she does that he can not refuse her.Lavanya asks her about her boyfriend and Kushi says she never had one. WHAT? Lavanya exclaims.  Kushi says well I do have one.  She proceeds to tell her about Salman Khan.  She asks La if she feels a little better and then she says that she will definitely feel better after they dance.  They go into this song and dance and jumping on the bed and a pillow fight with feathers flying all around and in walks Mr. Grumpy himself, ASR.

He watches the girls for a moment until Kushi notices he is here she jumps off the bed gets back on and catches Lavanya's attention who then jumps off the bed to go to ASR.  He says what going on this morning now this.  He doesn't want her turning into that middle class girl.  Jia Prakash tells Kushi she has a phone call and Buaji tells her she must come home now.  She tells Lavanya she must go home now she doesn't know why and she leaves.

Everyone is called to the living room by Lavanya. ASR comes why he was called, he asks.

Kushi runs up to her door and rings the bell frantically calling out for Buaji to open the door.  Shyam opens the door.  What happened Shyam and she runs in and there are her parents!  She hugs them and then shoots a million questions.  Are you okay? Why didn't you tell me you were coming I would have been here to greet you and on and on Kushi style.  Buaji tells her bas, be quiet.  Shyam brought them here and got them tickets and greeted them at the station. His excuse for bringing them was that Kushi's dad was not well so why not treat him here in Delhi. 

 Of course! I should have known.

ASR asks Lavanya why she has called him there.  She says she wants to ask him something.  She explains how Nani is angry with her about one thing.  One thing, Nani asks.  Hah, one thing mainly that they do not talk about marriage.  So to make a long story short she asks him to marry her even if the words were written on her hand by Kushi as a cheat sheet.  She toold him Kushi explained what marriage means and she wants that.  Nani says we should appreciate Kushi for changing a girl like Lavanya.  He is infuriated you can see it in his eyes. He releases her hand and walks away.  I guess you have your answer La.

Back at the GH Buaji is praising Shyam for the Gupta's eyes to see what a good catch he is for Kushi.  Kushi receives a phone call from Lavanya telling her what happened with ASR and she says atleast he didn't say no!  We still have another plan.  She explains it to La.  The phone rings again and when she picks it up she hears three words in an angry voice, "Kushi Kumari Gupta." 

Guess who called her!

 

indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: samin6


Our dear Indi I am a huge fan of IPKKND flashbacks. Now let me tell you from the day of Holi onwards I was wishing that Arnav and Khushi have flashbacks of the Holi. Stupid me was thinking it was reserved for this year's holi. OK Arnav bitwa remembered thrice and Khushi not even once. Now think how much more stupid I am- I was thinking IPKKND season 2 will start in this year's holi. Again dreams squelched.  Guess what I have an official enemy- Nimbu ka achar.



🀣 🀣 🀣 🀣 samin, my favourite line of the day. happy holi, my friend.

indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: aina123

reliving ipk is awesome guys, I will be away for couple of weeks. Easter break so going to India on holidays, will miss u all and arshi too.



hi aina,

have  a fantastic time back home. and do peep in and get ipk-ed from time to time. take care.

indi52 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: samin6



I agree Indi he may have agreed to marry Khushi because he loved her. Still he was a liitle uncomfortable around Garima. But in any case he was always respectful towards Garima, and anyone would be considering she raised Payal and Khushi as her own. Anyways he had made a bigger crime with her daughters. He was responsible for breaking of her daughter's marriage on wedding day, causing disfame of one of her daughter's name, caused one to enter a marriage on the day the other one was, put one daughter's life in danger, caused one to enter a marriage which was considered not full, showed them they were poor on numerous occasions and the list goes on. We saw how Arnav was forgiven by Garima for numerous mistakes he made intentionally. So I think he therefore could not blame her for a mistake she made which was not in her hands.



super interesting perspective. yes, garima was willing to forgive him much. though in a way it was good that payal's marriage broke and payal said as much to him when he apologised.

i have no issue with him forgiving garima. it's just the way it was done, in one quick scene, as though there was nothing to explore, whereas we know that's not the case and asr would struggle with the thought of the woman for whom his mother was played with and who unintentionally had a role in his mother's death. also, in terms of nature, garima is older, and a mother, she is shown to be understanding and forgiving by nature. asr is not. he has completely rejected those who hurt his mother. never forgiven his dad, nor his dadi. for him to just shrug it all off was out of character. of course, he would do it gradually, and in fact, if the loop had to be closed, it would have a supremely deep and emotional denouement where he will call her "amma." as khushi does. we have seen how much he suffers about his mom, a huge part of his character, that terribly moving scene where khushi keeps insisting he call garima amma, and he can't and the one who understands his heart is garima... that seen needed to be close with grace.

on the issue of him accepting di as a mother, i will stay on the other side, i don't think he really ever gave anyone that place. as i wrote, if anyone will ever have a place in his mother place, it will be khushi, wives and mothers there's always some funny link there however much we may crib about it.

but he does get a sense of his mother from his di, in the way elder sisters have a motherly attitude toward their bros. we interfere, we ask questions, we pray for them, this mothering by her he does enjoy, though he says at times, "main baccha nahin hoon," and siblings of the same mother somewhere have their mother between them even when she's gone, they give each other a sense of her. again, hard to explain in words.

but i really enjoyed your delve and reasoning a lot. how much thsi show hold s in it. fabulous, isn't it.


Edited by indi52 - 11 years ago
Mysticaldivine thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago

                                

DISCLAIMER:DON'T COPY MY WORKS AND CONCEPTS WITHOUT GIVING ME CREDIT 

YOU HAVE SEEN MY HUMBLE SIDE. TRUST ME YOU WON'T LIKE THE OTHER...

EPISODE 81

Parents'Anniversary PART 1

There is a light in every darkness, you just have to look forward by trusting God and he prevails no matter what.Dukh aur Sukh[sadness and happiness] walk side by side and you can't separate them.Arnav and Khushi both have seen the dark sides of their lives but both of them deal with them in different ways.Khushi is the sunshine for him as she is very independent and knows how to stand in front of any pain by her strong belief system along with action as "God helps those who help themselves"Arnav is the most strong and independent but at the same time the most weak and vulnerable because of his weak belief system in a lot of things but will emerge the strongest of all when Khushi will place these beliefs in his life.😊

 

Babuji,"Doodh ka jala chach bhi phoonk phoonk kar piye hai" [after burning first time from the same everyone becomes careful Babuji is here so why we have fear he will get you and outsmart you Slithery  ding dong.

Buaji  you are not enemy of Khushi but definitely enemy of her Khushi[happiness]


Khushi in Mandir with her parents as she can't forget bringing her parents here where her Arnavji held her in his arms and broke her fast . Unintentionally she wants her parents to be with her in this joy.

Pause here:"Hari Nagar ki moorati bohat sunder hai"[Hari nagar's idol is way too beautiful]

Symbolism:Hari Nagar ,Hari parakash ,Name Hari is Lord's name so calling someone by this name is giving someone prestige near to Lord.Some other meanings are bearing, bay [Sahil] ,Lion, Ishq [ love]

This is amazing she is describing her LaadGovernor's virtues to her parents.Delhi mein Hari is only and only Arnavji.

 

Her Hari Arnavji is here and stops with the same "mehsoos"[feeling ]she is here.He always gets it first but this time its stronger than ever with such overwhelming feeling of pain ,anger and relief together .The relief which he always gets after seeing her and the pain which he has associated with his internal turmoil because of his past and anger because of Khushi's Faith and belief system because he is burning  of that internally in between hate and love.

This time it's felt like he is listening her distress wish and concern for her father.Love this transition as her concentration breaks so does his and he dejects himself with that feeling for a while but DM's chunari is still lingering around him another sign as she is here.

 Pause here; Arnav is here as he is receiving her parents' blessings just like she is getting from his parents [in Part 2 epi 82-83].Stars are watching and trailing these two all the time so they don't forget their ways towards each other.They are showing them the right way towards each other.Its like all the forces are determined and adamant in this reunion.

 

She feels the wind of misty breath of him around her and knows HE IS HERE.She is in Mandir hands joined and her innermost wish Rajkumar is here after all ,All super natural forces are united with DM and DM is with Khushi[my strong belief]


Pause here:Today she is alone in Pooja later he will be joining hands with her FOR her with a killing smile for KulDevi pooja.

 

Arnav on his way but Khushi's wish stopped his feet ,the little girl crying for her father's betterment but has no money.He not only wipes her tears with her own handkerchief but also releases her wish by buying all the pigeons .

He couldn't see her without parents .Today he does not want a child crying over a small things connects his childhood suffering for a lot as they were thrown out of the RM and he has to make all the way up where he can help others.There is no doubt he is a man of golden heart as he wants a one wish  for himself a WISH that his mother could be with him.Today he became a protector of this girl and wanted to fullfil her wish like a father which shows his inner desires for his own  father to be like one.My heart goes out for his pain...


Pause here:Hey another thing this broken gullock is reminding me of  Khushi's one right before Holi and her coins were not enough where our Sanka Devi asks for "Udhar"[Loan}.She made me so proud that day...

            

SERIOUS Pause here: Arnav does not hate kids ,he just have anxiety with their attitudes .He loves nice kids as later he will have one without trying anything .Ahem aheM...What ladies I was just talking about Aarav...seriously you guys are too much...


Ok Do you see any similarity here...

                    

AMAZING Pondering Point:

She asks her parents to have "Mannat keh Kabootar"[pigeons for blessings] in Mandir just like "Mannat ki chabi"[key of blessing] in Dargah.How beautifully creators have connected these two.The key is his and she has it as she is his real "Mannat" his "key".Today she wants "Mannat keh Kabootar[her wishes like the betterment of her family,her Babuji, her wish for her Rajkumar to be the one the way she wants and  all]" which he is going to buy all upon her wish along with that little girl will be released in air.The girl is there for the welfare of her father and Khushi's wish is "Humare Babuji ko acha Kar do"[Make my Babuji allright] and who is "waseela"[reason] Arnav who is buying her wish.At the top she is there at the time of releasing pigeons which shows their oneness.just amazing.He will be paying her Babuji's bill later and will take care of every wish of her.This is all so well connected and makes my belief more stronger.πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

 Khushi,"itni saree manatain sirf eik adami keh liyeh...bada lalchi insaan ho ga jo sab kuch sirf apne liyeh mang raha hai...[all these wishes only for one person...how greedy that guy is as he wants everything for himself] uhhh.sweet heart he is doing it for you but you will know it for sure one day.


Her inner happiness and Faith gets a relief after seeing her Arnavji as a good man which she wishes for him to be as her "Rajkumar"...

This is going to change Khushi's belief system towards him"Jo Dikhta hai woh waisa nahin hai"[it will change her completely]

Pause here:She will tell her Arnavji that she saw him with this little girl with pigeons and all during her KulDevi Pooja


Heartfelt Symbolism and Connection : Pigeons are symbols of love and marital bliss as well as happiness in the home, so you seeing this bird probably indicates some form of good fortune and happiness to come.

COLOR white is for purity and it consumes all colors in it so it also represents all emotions.

  


I think you guys understood the connection .Just remember in the 1st epi it starts with Khushi's home with two pigeons [at the entrance of the door]story of Arnav and Khushi .Then when Arnav was in Sheesh Mahal doing biggest deal of his life with Chachaji to buy his pains as he was thrown out of his own home and here he is buying that treasured memory from him.Pigeons were around flocking here and there.One pigeon was actually doing this deal along with ASR...just kidding.. Ok even in the Durgah in Lukhnow Khushi bumped into these pigeons just like she bumped with Arnav.Amazing...Today Khushi entered in Mandir they were there , When Arnav entered in the Mandir there were pigeons.When Khushi turned around to see Arnav after feeling his misty presence  pigeons are flocking in the background.Khushi and Arnav standing in between flocking pigeons together with small girl.So Pigeons are the symbol of their treasured oneness which supposed to happen no matter what.

 

Evident Pondering POINT:Khushi always puts others in front of her and cares about them.Today she sees him in Mandir doing selfless act and now seeing him in the pain which she shares with him and knows exactly how is he being going through regardless of his anger.She does not care about that she only knows he needs her in this distress and she will be there for him as he shared his "Dukh" with her in his rage"kaisa mehsoos hota hai] she will share her "Dukh"with him.[apko pata nahin hoga na..hum bata dete hain]He knows her pains and she knows his , he understands her and she does for him.Period.


She comes home all baffled and dumb folded'and as our Khushi is talking to herself as usually.Payal is right Khushi you are Pagal...Khushi is preshan[worried]," Jiji par who waisa hai hi nahin...uska usli roop tou kuch aur hi hai.."[jij he is not what he looks like ,he is a different person]How we supposed to know a person is good or bad.She is addled about everything which happened in couple of hrs and wanted to share with Payal but I LOVE this. the moment she opens her mouth to tell her and couldn't as "everything remains in between them"done by FATE.

Pause here:Khushi's POV is going to change as he is not what he appears .He istaking care of his family and especially his Di and despite the fact he is LG ,Rakshus, Magarmuch etc but behind all of this he is "Rajkumar"The only time she will shatter when he will marry her forcefully"Aap iske lyek hi nahin hain keh koi aap se pyar kare"but she will get that too Later.

 

Time on clock is Six and she is getting late for work.


Symbolism:#6

      According to the Bible, God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh.

      Six represents balance, love, health and also luck, as it is the winning throw at dice.

      The most important influence of the 6 is its loving and caring nature.

      Properly nicknamed the motherhood number, it is all about sacrificing, caring, healing, protecting and teaching others while sometimes becoming doormat in this process

CONNECTION:THIS # represents Khushi she is going to be sacrificing herself for all of the people here and during this process she is going to be treated as a doormat but her loving and caring nature will not change .She will be healing Arnav and Anjali and protecting of their where about from Shyam but in return she will take all the heat .Just marvelousπŸ‘

 In Rm ,Anjali is upset as usually as she can't reach her charlatan hubby.The door bell rings and  Khushi's bright face on the door appears as she is light in this darkness and today on their parents anniversary, their parents ,the stars are helping them to have her. While passing the hall, Khushi finds a hanky on the floor with "S" on it. Anjali tells it her's his hubby's and his name is Shyam. Khushi gets amiable by telling her that their PG's name is Shyam too.Khushi ,Payal is right "you are pagal if you are thinking Shyamji is a good fella'.😑 Didn't like the way she gives respect Slither while calling his name😑

 Significantly Khushi will return Shyam to Anjali the moment she will find the truth about him.Love this they were holding the hanky together and then Anjali was holding it while thinking about it.

Anjali is mad at him first time and ignores his inquiry about Khushi and wants him here on this propitious day but filthy Slither is busy playing with his slinky games.


 

Babuji is following Shyam's Slithery trails "yeh Rani Sahiba Kuan hain beta"[who is this Rani Sahiba] Why do I have a feeling as he heard his whole convo because he changes his face expressions the moment Shyam does nice move Babuji.Arggg...Buaji's ishaqwa for this slimewa is making me sick ...😑😑

Babuji asks him again and his hesitant face tells million things to Babuji,"Is Rani Sahiba from Lukhnow?"and he stammers.Well Done Babuji[teer Nishane peh] Shyam with his shatir recovery,"Babuji wakil hum hain par sawal aap bhi bohat karte hain"[I am a lawyer but you questions like em]You liar my foot

Shyam and his shabby games of pleasing ladies are not going unnoticed but Shyam's observance of his behavior is keenly booked by his sly brain too.😑😑😑

 

 The grand arrangement of the pooja makes Khushi hype.  She astonishes seeing Arnav coming for the pooja as he does not need any trick this time to be in the pooja. Her happiness goes double  to see him as DM can do anything,"eik Nastik bhi pooja mein baith rahe hain" [even Arnav,"The great and  an atheist can sit for the pooja!"] Arnav throws daggers  at her. But her heart sinks with pain when Anjali come with a portrait of their parents and  gives it to Arnav for garlanding Khushi come to know that it was their parent's death anniversary. She feels awful and exceedingly sad for Arnav. Arnav's submergence  watching their parent's picture does not go unnoticed by Khushi but no one sees her restlessness while watching him in pain and at the top he does not accept her apology,"humain pata nahin tha keh..[I didn't know that ...The pain and agony in her voice is way too deep..

 In Rm, Khushi goes to her Arnavji's room to apologize.She goes in after knocking and he gives a very passive look as he wants to hate her after her thinking about him that low.He totally ignores her apology and goes back to his work.Khushi says dotingly,"apki ankhein bilkul apki amma ki tarah hain"[your eyes are just like your mom's]He gulps down the pain and tells her ,"Just leave from here plz"

Khushi turns to leave but then stops to give him her support as she saw him today in another avatar which is giving her strength to change her views no matter what. [she always jump for others to give them relief no matter what "adat se majboor"]She wants to remove his distress as she can't see him in pain the way he can't see hers regardless he gives her and gets it in return.


 

Khushi,"hum samjh sakte hain iss waqt aapko kaisa lag raha hai"[I can understand how are you feeling right now]

ASR is back with his BG score louder than ever.He threw his file and attacks her with harsh words.She steps back frantically,"kya samajh sakti ho tum'bolo kya samajh sakti ho "[What do you understand tell me]

Why am I getting vibes he wanted her to ask him, to console him as he pours his heart today on her in this matter which he didn't with his Di after all we always show anger to those who we love the most.

Voice modulation is evident he wants to share this with her without hesitantly even in anger"pata hai kaisa lagta hai jab apne haathon se apni maa ko agni daite hain 'kaisa lagta hai jab uss ghar mein phir se  kadam rakhte hain jahan who wapas khabi nahin ayengey'kaisa lagta hai jab sab kehtey hain keh who samajhte hainkeh hum kya mehsoos kar rahe hain par koi kuch nahin samajhta"

[do you know how does it feel when you come home after criminating your mom ,do you know how does it feel when you come back to the same house where you won't be able to see them again'do you know how dose it feel when everyone says they know what are we going through but they don't]

 Khushi's pain rolls down with tears but he can't feel it today as his pain is way above all right now.He has no clue he is giving her pain which is adding fuel to fire today for her and is unbearable for her more than him.

 

Arnav in mortification,"don't waste your tears on me,your simplicity works on Nani,...Don't think by consoling with me ,I will increase your salary...Now get out"


Khushi comes out with heavy heart and he shuts the door relentlessly at her.She is outside with brimming tears as she has no clue of her fault and he is inside in his room flustered as he did something wrong.

Arnav is in his baffled and vulnerable state because of his mom's sudden death and the horror of that night as he mentions his mother's name first to Khushi then parents.


Pause here:Loop is closing here as the other day she was standing outside by knowing its her fault by throwing tea and he closed the door at her in his flustered condition by accepting his fault for all of his wrong doings and today he is perplexed at the same way on the other side of the door but in both cases they both are in the same frame.

 

When he will understand her pain he will remember her words always for not speeding car, for not keeping her in the dark  etc

                                         MOMENT OF THE DAY

                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhXlp9PacfY 

                            [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhXlp9PacfY[/YOUTUBE] 

              

Edited by ArshiHamesha - 11 years ago