Caste System, Education and Reservations - Discuss

Ok since most of those who voted are in favor of the discussion and also the topic of reservations has been raised in other threads, perhaps we should discuss it at length.

Apparently the poll was still not open to replies, did not know how to reset it, so creating a discussion thread for the same topic.

My personal take on it:

The purpose for which Reservations were designed still remain unchanged at the grassroots level. Mid-day meals are still denied to the children from the poorer families - who stand in greater need of the scheme. The children from the Dalit classes are still discriminated against. Without raising the topic of Reservations overtly, Amir seemed to show the necessity of it by showing us the reality of the schools.

I mentioned in another thread that today's episode forced me to rethink a lot of things. One f them was my stand on Reservations. I used to be against them. Today's episode made me realize how necessary they are.

Without the reservations, those girls would not be allowed inside the schools even. Someday, these girls are going to bring that change in our society.

That boy who refused to eat at school, because he was made to sit separately - he's the one who is going to lead the change in his village 10 years down the line.

The boy who left school because he was asked to clean toilets is going to force the society to accept him.

These are the children who have the spark in them and the guts to change status quo. We cannot deny them the opportunity to come out of that morass.

Yes we bemoan the cost of the system on the overall education standards. But tell me - there are no reservations in St.Stephens College (Delhi University) - ye the cut-off percentage there is always 97%+ even for an arts course. Delhi School of Economics has a cut off percentage of 97.5% for commerce stream. We do not blame the shortage of seats in these institutes as due to reservations. We blame the Engineering and Medical colleges for shortage of seats and hold reservations solely responsible for the problem.

Can the problem not be because of the high population? Can it not be because there are only so many premier institutions and only so many seats there?

Today every aspirant for Engineering wants a seat in IIT Delhi or IIT Bombay. Why not the others? Nearly 5 lakh students appeared for IIT-JEE in 2012. Out of these students only 24,112 have secured ranks and 17,642 have been shortlisted for counseling for admission to 9647 seats. Calculate the percentage. Now every student from Kashmir to Kanyakumari believes that they should get admission in one of the two IITs and if they don't, they blame reservations for it.

Face it guys, life is tough. If as a semen you had to fight millions to make it to the seed, what makes you think life is going to be easy outside the womb? Life didn't promise to be fair or to fulfill all your dreams. No one did.

If you find it difficult without that degree from the best IIT, then think of the student who swept the toilets in his school, missed the meal, wasn't allowed to drink water from the school tap, trudged to school everyday in a torn uniform and tattered shoes and still made it, despite all these hardships to study and appear for these exams. The rich students have recourse to coaching classes and expensive study aids, these students more often than not still don't have electricity at home even.

Exactly what I was thinking all through the show, I have been a very firm advocate against reservation in higher education institutes like IITs,IIMs,AIIMS etc.But then this episode made me think from a very different perspective, as you rightly said these kids might not have got a right to education if it was not for reservations and we might have lost a whole generation slumbed in a lifetime of ignorance.Then i introspected if I was opposing it coz it makes getting into these institutes difficult for the "general category" students or are we sneering thinking these guys have everythin handed down to them?

So, i spend some time googling, venting it out with dad, and finally found few sense in this maddness and came to the conclusion that no matter what education in higher levels must be free from any time of reservation except on economic grounds.

See, to get to it I had to go through what and how reservation is implemented , today we have reservation covering SC,ST,OBC and religious minorites.But the real problem emerges when no consideration is given to the fact that most of their present generation might not need it , they might be economically and otherwise be capable of making it through these institutes.Creamy layer , I believe is the term given, continues to drive the benefits decade after decade.They are educated and well off then why are we continuing to bracket them still by their caste.Shouldnt it be stopped say three generation later.

Then to see the picture of those who are not so privilaged and dont have either social or economic support to get better opportunities, has reservations over 65 years made it easier for them to land a seat in IIT and IIm, al ook at the vacant seats in these institutes every year make me question then what is stopping them, its not their caste but the money and their inability to afford that education.

I read an account of a student who went on to study in a very prestigious institute and was an SC, he wrote, though noone called him names or discriminated as such but he couln't miss subtle jokes how he got through his caste, he mentioned how it might just be alli nnocent but it made him feel as if his degree was handed over not earned.

hence my question, how can reservation earn them self-respect when we are ourselves putting the boundaries in the name of their betterment?.

watchin those three girls reaffirmed what i believe lack of govt will in implementing "Educaton for all" atleast till high school level, it should be made sure no discrimination be done in name of religion, caste or monetory condition.

Higher educaton is tricky, take the case of medical practices, you have 30 odd seats in the most elite institute for general categories, with more than 5 lakh applicants, it is a skill based profession cannot be identified by any religion or caste so when we bring reservation it does undermine the profession to some extent , especially in a country where there is already derth in the number of doctors.

Take the example of MBA, there is huge fee to be paid in order to study at IIMs, more than the private ones even , so if an economically deprived student does make it to that institute through reservtion, he may not be able to afford it, so what are we left with an empty seat and a talent wasted.

We cannot hand over self respect to anyone, lets give them assistance and help them stand on their feet themselves, so that they can say they made it not coz of their caste but coz of their talent and hard-work!

Shessh re-postng it here!

Originally posted by: Chitrashi

Yes we bemoan the cost of the system on the overall education standards. But tell me - there are no reservations in St.Stephens College (Delhi University) - ye the cut-off percentage there is always 97%+ even for an arts course. Delhi School of Economics has a cut off percentage of 97.5% for commerce stream. We do not blame the shortage of seats in these institutes as due to reservations. We blame the Engineering and Medical colleges for shortage of seats and hold reservations solely responsible for the problem.

Can the problem not be because of the high population? Can it not be because there are only so many premier institutions and only so many seats there?

Today every aspirant for Engineering wants a seat in IIT Delhi or IIT Bombay. Why not the others? Nearly 5 lakh students appeared for IIT-JEE in 2012. Out of these students only 24,112 have secured ranks and 17,642 have been shortlisted for counseling for admission to 9647 seats. Calculate the percentage. Now every student from Kashmir to Kanyakumari believes that they should get admission in one of the two IITs and if they don't, they blame reservations for it.

Face it guys, life is tough. If as a semen you had to fight millions to make it to the seed, what makes you think life is going to be easy outside the womb? Life didn't promise to be fair or to fulfill all your dreams. No one did.

If you find it difficult without that degree from the best IIT, then think of the student who swept the toilets in his school, missed the meal, wasn't allowed to drink water from the school tap, trudged to school everyday in a torn uniform and tattered shoes and still made it, despite all these hardships to study and appear for these exams. The rich students have recourse to coaching classes and expensive study aids, these students more often than not still don't have electricity at home even.

I will not talk about my stand on reservations just now ..I am just her to make a point.

In case of reservations:

Thanks for the info Chitrashi.

The below post suits this thread better hence reposting it here

@To further validate my point that reservation is either misused or doing too little,

Times of India reported that 27% of total(54000) seats in DU is reserved for SC/ST and OBC but very few has taken up admissions this year, rest of the seats remaining vacant , a waste of resources.

See, the problem is as Annika, mentioned the difference in eligibility, you have a general catetory student getting 95%+ and not getting admission but for the same seat you have below 70% cut-off for the reserved quota, now this is where the oppostion arises, if you are reserving the seats then make sure the cut-off remain the same or there is not this huge difference.

These reservations has been goin for last 60+ years, has that made any change to the perception of society to lower castes, sholdnt it be stopped after three generations in a family or has a income slab also.