THE INDIAN WOMEN - Page 2

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souro thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#11
Every alternate line you're reiterating how much you're loving it in India and every other line you're saying what all you feel are wrong. I don't know how exactly you're loving it here when you're finding something wrong in everything.

Yes, not everything is good over here, but has it occured to you that maybe some of the things that you think are odd are actually just a product of cultural difference. India is India, it's not east Europe or west Europe or USA. If you expect to find everything like it is over there, then ofcourse you will be disappointed.

Yes, families over here are bit more protective than in west. But what is wrong with that unless that protection becomes overbearing and domineering? Excessive of anything is bad. Having overbearing parents can be as much of a problem as parents who grant so much freedom to their child that almost forget about them.

If women over here behave differently than men, then I think that's natural. If there is a country where men and women behave similarly, then that'll be odd for me. If most of the women in India were backstabbers and home wreckers, then I'd have said that yes there is a problem. But if that is not so, if they simply have some different choices than the men over here have, what's wrong with that? Maybe, they didn't feel comfortable enough to open up to you. You as a standalone person in a new country can't become the parameter by which to judge people's attitude.

You see many people over here who seem to be weak and malnourished. Well, that's because there are considerably more malnourished people over here than in Europe. I don't think that's very shocking, undesirable yes but not unexpected.
Also, I've heard that a large population of Indian women are anaemic and it's not always because they are poor and don't have enough to eat but because of various other reason. Maybe, a doctor can confirm this as they'll have better knowledge about the causes about such issues.

You felt that the daughter-in-law of the house, where you went for dinner, was being made to work too much. Maybe it's so or maybe it was a cook working inside the kitchen and she was only supervising, because that's usually how it is in most well to do families nowadays.

Lastly, that bit about people worshipping godesses but you feeling that it doesn't make any difference to the life of average women. I don't understand what exactly you were expecting here.

Edited by souro - 15 years ago
Polki_Zofi thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#12
@souro: If you did not understand already anything that I wrote then I think you will not be able to in my future posts either. I dont know why you think I find something wrong in everything? My only thought that I have expressed here is the condition of the Indian female. India does have its hospitality, diverse costumes, landscapes, nature and food which ofcourse is worth alot of fondness. The first think you must realise is that this is something about women and a feeling of their helplessness from the perspective of another woman.

I think families in India are not just a bit more protective when it comes to women (because when it is about men, the scenario is so much different which I wonder why). Infact I found the scenario slanting towards some form of supression as Kanky even said, and I believe Kanky is an Indian woman.

Being culturally different is one thing, but why only in the case of the woman? While there are families in India who are forward when it comes to women, these families are not only restricted to the urban enviroment but infact they are very few even in the urban world. I know I am new in India, but it is something the girls in India also feel and they surely know and assert it much more than I ever did in here or anywhere. Just as a girl, a woman, I feel and I wonder. I have all the respect for a different culture, but cannot condone anything which makes the woman go in so much pressure even if it is being protected by a fantasy that it is something which is a part of tradition.

I mentioned in one of my posts here about a conversation with a physician about the alarming health problems and malnutrition of Indian women of all classes and backgrounds. It was due to lack to care they receive from their families, lack of support, lack of food and lack of confidence they have about themselves due to all those reasons.

The woman who cooked and did all while everyone enjoyed the evening was doing all by herself. I did not see any servant, and was also told that there was no servant and she was supposed to serve everyone being the daughter in law of that household. It was something very surprising and uncomfortable, however, if you think it was justice then its the way you must be thinking. I am sure not every Indian woman would share the thought.

About worshipping godesses, see what I replied and to whom I replied, as well as the context of it. Someone said that this symbolised the status of women, and I simply thought that it made no difference to the true status that the women suffer in India.

Lastly, in all your statement and paragraphs I could smell negative agression, which was very uncomfortable.
souro thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#13
@Polki_Zofi: You need not smell anything yet, you'll know it quite well when it happpens. Till now I was trying to understand why you're mentioning only negatives. Yes, most of the advancements are seen in well to do families and usually in urban areas. But it's happening. We can't expect everything that needs to be cured to be alright within a day. The biggest hurdle in the path of rapid change is that India is a democracy and good or bad, everyone has an opinion. And in matters of change involving women, many of the times the main opposition comes from the women. Many simply don't want to change. Then within India there are regions where the social scenario is much more liberal and then there are regions like Haryana where the society is well known for keeping their women folk subdued. But that's a unique case and Haryana shouldn't be the yardstick for judging Indian women.

And everything need not be a negative as you're thinking because somethings as I said are also just part of cultural difference. As an example, a newly married girl usually serves the guests who come to meet her. It's just a tradition. You may not like such a tradition but people who follow it are not doing it out of some malice towards the daughter-in-law. In earlier days, the food used to be prepared by the women of the family (and there used to be a lot of women because traditionally in India, most were joint families). Nowadays because in urban areas it's mostly nuclear families, people make do with outside food with maybe one dish prepared by the DIL. The serving however is still done by the new bride most of the times, to uphold tradition. Now if someone follows that, I don't think there is anything bad about it. Yes, if the DIL was made to work like a slave all by herself then it would be definitely wrong. But usually that doesn't happen and so it's not right to base your judgement on one such incident.

Anyways, before we proceed any further... have you befriended some Indian women till now? If you've made some friends, are all of those girls unhappy with their lives?

Edited by souro - 15 years ago
Polki_Zofi thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#14
I think you are thinking from a male perspective with a rigid mindset and a very traditional approach. There is no explanation to be given to you, unless you think from a female point of view. Look at some female responses in this thread alone. Females do suffer in India, and whether you like it or not, I would think of it and would wish to be able to do something about it if ever possible.

I am mentioning observations over a "particular" issue. This is a particular issue, not a full description of India. Also, I have mentioned good things aswell - Maybe you are only being able to see negative ... maybe you are unable to take criticism? Threatened? Who knows (don't ask me where are the positives. They are there but if you fail to read or see them, then its a pity for you ... and definitely not my problem).

As for that example which I gave, I am pretty sure that if this tradition were to be altered, that girl would be much more pleased. This is very sad that many people are unable to understand the need for equal rights, respect and care for a woman in her household. There were no servants and she is supposed to do everything, while everyone else have a fun time. Not a good things in any tradition. With a changing world people must make changes in themselves. There had been other traditions as one person mentioned "bride burning" which was changed probably (or the burning of the widowed woman on her dead husband). Another would be dowry which is still present (in my Indian family where Sameera is to get married, and the family plans to give some pretty amazing gifts - indirect dowry?). People simply need to realize that women cannot be dominated anymore by wits. I am sure many western women feel the need to help the women of the east, specially Indian women for a better life and HEALTH. I surely think we need many more mother Teressa.

Oh yes I have befriended Indians, infact that and more is the reason why I am in India. My respect or love or association with India need not be proved to anyone. The fact the the condition of Indian women must and MUST change rapidly and drastically in India is evident. This can happen with a united effort of all the women of the world for their own identity sake, so that the potential and beauty of the Indian woman can be realized and they also participate with making a more sound and livable world.

Edited by Polki_Zofi - 15 years ago
souro thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#15
I don't need your psychoanalysis of my mind. Let's see some concrete points. You're sitting on another end of a computer, you don't know me and I don't know you and no, I don't feel threatened by you either. I know that India needs to advance much more and yes that includes condition of women too. But giving a specific case of a woman who had to cook all by herself for all guests without any help from anyone does not prove anything, cos as I said that one woman does not depict the true prevalent scenario.

In any case I'll just say that I think only two things are needed as the first step by the women or rather by the whole population.
1. Those who are educated, should work
2. Those who are not educated, should get educated and then work

Edited by souro - 15 years ago
a little faith thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#16
Dear TM,

I know this is a little late, but hopefully better than never. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.

Firstly in response to an Indian woman's inferior feelings of beauty in terms of the lightness of her skin. Every society, nation and country in every decade, era and time has propagated an 'ideal' image for a woman to live up to, whether through art, politics or culture. Even today there is no area upon this world where you would not find it so, it does not belong wholly to India.

However in those very same groups you will find people, men and women alike who fight such ill intended 'models.' (No pun intended😳) A few people who understand that inner light brings radiance and lack thereof will only corrupt and bring rust to an outward form, no matter how 'shiny and bright!'

Secondly in response to woman's position in general in Indian society, you can not blame a whole nation, culture and religion upon the actions of the corrupt EVEN IF they are NOT few but many. For example in terms of Football where hooliganism runs rampant, you could argue that it MUST instill a certain behaviour to affect fans so. However you would be wrong. You can not blame the game only those who cause mischief in its name.

The proof of my argument are the exceptions. Even if there is ONE exception then the source, the means can not be as you say. Of course there are women in India who are oppressed through their looks, by the families and society's regard BUT there are many women who are successful and given respect without apparent beauty, loved and honoured by their families and revered by peers and strangers alike. Those few make false your findings, for if it were the effect of the cause of this land, its people, its culture and practices THEN ALL women would be such!

The blame lies in specific cases NOT the general. Even if they outnumber them 100 to 1.

I live in England, Europe and I find it weird, strange almost cruel the way MANY people abandon their parents in their old age. I love the fact that in most Asian cultures parents, especially mothers, remain a part of the family for as long as they take breath. I could say that European culture makes people selfish and cold, shirking their responsibilities BUT I can not for those people who look after their parents truly exceptionally. They may be few but they exist!

Finally, I understand that it must have been a culture shock in some aspects but even though you may not be able to accept or understand certain Indian/Asian temperaments and viewpoints that you may be able to appreciate that they are nonetheless valid even though different.

That a woman who surrenders and submits herself to the role of a mother and wife is as strong as she is beautiful.

Love Sabah
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: souro

I don't need your psychoanalysis of my mind. Let's see some concrete points. You're sitting on another end of a computer, you don't know me and I don't know you and no, I don't feel threatened by you either. I know that India needs to advance much more and yes that includes condition of women too. But giving a specific case of a woman who had to cook all by herself for all guests without any help from anyone does not prove anything, cos as I said that one woman does not depict the true prevalent scenario.

In any case I'll just say that I think only two things are needed as the first step by the women or rather by the whole population.
1. Those who are educated, should work
2. Those who are not educated, should get educated and then work

Yes education is important.
I think mothers should spend more time with their young kids, so perhaps a part time job is preferable.
Woman or Man sitting idle is dangerous. They got to be busy with something.
-Believe- thumbnail
20th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 15 years ago
#18
Prophet Muhammed (SAW) says, "If you educate a man, you educate a person, bt if you educate a woman, you educate a nation." 👏
About Education, I think a real education will not teach you to compete... BUT it will teach you to cooperate... It will not teach you to fight and come first.... It will teach you to be creative, to be loving, to be blissful, without any comparison with the other. It will not teach you that you can be happy only when you are the first. That is sheer nonsense...😊
tulipbaby53 thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Trailblazer Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 15 years ago
#19
I think the image of the stereotypical Indian woman is changing as time progresses and changes. Also, as people (including women) are getting more educated and traveling out of their homes more, the image of an Indian woman is changing.

I get upset when I see these Indian soaps depicting the "typical" Indian bahu as someone who is basically everyone's doormat. She does everything for the house, but no one appreciates. Despite that she's still good to everyone. While I believe in being forgiving and adjusting to and respecting your in laws is important, an Indian bahu of today needs to be independent. Long gone are those days, even in India, where a girl can just be quiet and sit at home.

Times are changing and slowly people are accepting the newer images of the modern Indian bahu of today. I think a girl must know all housely duties, but she needs to be independent as well.

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