Polki_Zofi thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#1
I have wondered about India since the first time I saw an indian person in my city back home. I think of the indian woman as a girl in saree, with many ornaments, cloth on her head, round red circle on her forehead (which i later understood was a vermilion color sought of). But her image had been different than the Indian man, as I have met alot more indian men than women. But ofcourse gradually i have found more info basically after my visit in india.

What I still wonder is the level of pressure that the indian woman have to suffer though in life, mainly about their "color" and their appearance. I love the indian woman, let me make this clear first, and I think they are so beautiful in their own way. However, it seems that the importance of becoming fair complexioned and knowing all saintly or even more qualities are much more intense for the indian girl in comparison to the west or even east europe!

Now I am not talking about the financially effluent delhi or mumbai girl, or the women who settled in Europe or in Americas (who probably have a better life, due to which they came to our places which i understand) but the indian woman of basic average background and outside the two bigger cities.

If I am wrong i regret it , but believe you me that the perspective is just so obviously shaped by whatever comes on screen and on ground as i know more and more about india.

Why is the women so guarded here? Infact in Europe, as any one and you will know (atleast in my country) that the Indian woman and the Indian man is very different in every term and in most contexts. With the indian women being in the suffering side usually.

Created

Last reply

Replies

18

Views

2.2k

Users

7

Likes

6

Frequent Posters

souro thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 15 years ago
#2

Originally posted by: Polki_Zofi

I have wondered about India since the first time I saw an indian person in my city back home. I think of the indian woman as a girl in saree, with many ornaments, cloth on her head, round red circle on her forehead (which i later understood was a vermilion color sought of). But her image had been different than the Indian man, as I have met alot more indian men than women. But ofcourse gradually i have found more info basically after my visit in india.

What I still wonder is the level of pressure that the indian woman have to suffer though in life, mainly about their "color" and their appearance. I love the indian woman, let me make this clear first, and I think they are so beautiful in their own way. However, it seems that the importance of becoming fair complexioned and knowing all saintly or even more qualities are much more intense for the indian girl in comparison to the west or even east europe!

Now I am not talking about the financially effluent delhi or mumbai girl, or the women who settled in Europe or in Americas (who probably have a better life, due to which they came to our places which i understand) but the indian woman of basic average background and outside the two bigger cities.

If I am wrong i regret it , but believe you me that the perspective is just so obviously shaped by whatever comes on screen and on ground as i know more and more about india.

Why is the women so guarded here? Infact in Europe, as any one and you will know (atleast in my country) that the Indian woman and the Indian man is very different in every term and in most contexts. With the indian women being in the suffering side usually.


Pressure to conform is there for everyone. For women in India it's in the from of being fair complexioned, traditional, etc. Although fair complexion in India shouldn't be called conformity as it's more of an exception rather than the rule but the conformity comes from the idea among the Indian populace that fair complexion is a part of beauty. Many people say that Indians feel fair is beautiful, which I think is a wrong interpretation because there is a difference between thinking anyone fair is beautiful and thinking anyone to be considered beautiful should also have fair skin as a feature.

Talking about fair skin, I was travelling on Vietnam Airlines recently and in their newspaper I noticed, out of hardly 3 news related to India, 2 were articles about fair complexion. One was about Bollywood's obsession with fair skin and all the celebrity endorsements that we get to see for skin lightening products and another one about the flourishing business of skin lightening products in India. In all fairness though, it's not just people from the subcontinent but also people from South East Asia and Middle East, who are big time buyers of skin lightening products. As for Bollywood, obviously mass media like Bollywood movies will reflect what people think is beautiful. Here another debate crops up about social responsibility on the part of the media and also whether they are reinforcing the notion about fair skin and beauty. However, I disagree on that count as I don't think it's possible for media to reinforce something unless the people are predisposed towards the idea. However much the media might show snakes and spiders as epitomes of beautiful creatures, I don't think the multitude will buy the concept.

Okay, enough about fair skin. Coming to the initial part of your post, Indian women wearing saree and sporting a bindi on her forehead and her being different than Indian men. Can you clarify what exactly you meant by the difference? Is it the difference in attire where more women wear traditional clothes and more men wear Western clothes?
Your next question, why are Indian women so guarded. I'm not sure whether you meant, why the Indian women are guarded (i.e. cautious) in their behaviour OR why the Indian women are guarded (i.e. protected) by her family.
In the end you again talked about the difference between Indian men and women and again I don't get in what context you said that. Men and women are supposed to be different, not just in India but anywhere else in the world. If they were same, we might as well have had only one gender. So, clarification required once again about the context and why you wrote that.
Last line, about women on the suffering side. Yes, it was so. It started changing in the last 50 years or so and is still changing. In urban areas most women now know their rights and are not afraid of asserting it. In rural areas however, there is still need for much more improvement. For rural upper class, it's still their honour which matters more than the happiness of their daughter and as such they refuse to bring her home even if she faces abuse at her in-laws, as that's supposed to lower their honour. For rural lower class, it's the knowledge of their rights and how they can stand up against exploitation in general or involving their women folk.
thegameison thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 15 years ago
#3
Indian women are fine examples of - survivors.

I personally find people in India still badly rigid, which results in evolving a regular girl into an Indian woman, for she's put through test every now and then. I feel guarding women is highly stereotypical. The reason to this is the same though, stuck mindsets of people.

Indian women come across as two different groups. So, if you'll find housemakers here who according to me waste their lives, you'd also find career oriented women who make most out of every opportunity they're offered. But you see - the basic characterstics in every woman are similar here. Responsible, affectionate and exceptionally strong - both mentally and emotionally. A woman provides her family with emotional support and is perhaps the only reason why a family, whether huge or small is woven together perfectly.

And I agree - Indian people overseas are evidently different. My aunts who live in the US not only have adapted a different life style, they are married in much more liberal familes. And the best thing - they make ideal mothers and desicion makers.

Women are women, with same characterstics everywhere however there are obvious differences between the mindsets of women who come from bakwarded families and the ones who come from a liberal one. My mother wouldn't understand my viewpoint like my aunt would, or my counselor does - she's got a rigid mindset too with no fault for her own. She makes a great mother, and she's a fighter - reasons enough for me to consider her as one of the most respectable elders around. Maa!

-Kankshita

Edited by -Kanky- - 15 years ago
Polki_Zofi thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#4
@Suoro:

I knew about the term "bindi" but its a recent knowledge. I was talking about the popular perception in my country (or continent) about that thing on the forehead.

By guarded I meant being protected or having alot of pressure from society and family etc to be tame or domesticated. This I felt is a scenario for most Indian women, although ofcourse the urban are more empowered (but sadly, it is not the same for all urban woman). I have been to a few homes for dinners or lunch here in India and I could see how much is expected from a wife/daughter in law. The home I visited for example had this girl (relatively newly wed) do almost everything, while everyone else including the guests enjoyed (I wanted to help but on being asked to sit I sat, being a foreighner to India I think that was the best I could do 😳).

@Kanky: About a woman being a "housemaker", I personally think that it is the best thing and the most prestigeous thing for a woman. This is something which lacks among many societies of my continent which I have always valued and is increasingly being valued by many in the west and rest of europe. But being an opinionless undignified submissive servant is not what is meant by being a "housemaker". Even the world "homemaker/housemaker" is so beautiful and promising 😊. It is a great career in itself I feel, as a career option (in strict business terms) it does have many benefits, ofcourse if well balanced.

Being respectful in one thing, and being left alone as a submissive obey'er of a family is so different. I have come to know that it is a part of the Indian cultural system, while ofcourse in the villages and small towns it is more difficult. If that is so, I just wonder what it can be like in there.

@Suoro: Coming back to you 😊, I know that a woman and a man are not uniform, they are different. But the men in Europe (or in my country or the places where I visited) have seemed to be more open, more interactive then the women. If you know what I mean (and if you dont, then perhaps I have failed to transfer the info from my inner mind to you. It is not what only I think but many women of European decent whom I have met have similar feelings).

The women in India have a different world it seems sometimes. While I felt that they are sometimes neglected, they are also struggle (or refrain themselves) from finding their way into other enviroments apart from their own. Maybe what I want to say is that Indian women seem to be more resistant to change than their male counterparts. I have seem more and more Indian or Pakistan or Bangladesh men with European women or families than the Indian women (I thought a few times wether this would be a good example, but still have because its difficult to explain something so much felt but so less spoken of, maybe no one wants to renforce this idea, but its an idea present in many minds where I come from. Believe me they will rarely share with you if you are an Indian, no matter what, because sometimes its very embarassing to share too).

Another thing which I can find in India now is that many people I see seem weaker and more malnourished! Even in this regard, the women seem drastically more weak and too much more malnourished. Apart from that, I just came to know that Indian women suffer more from ailements or disorders/health issues if compared with their male counterparts. It is actually something I would believe in, as it does seem to come up every time.

About the fair skinned matter. Please remember I really think Indian women are beautiful and being white cannot be any measure for beauty. Usually maybe I would never talk about it (obviously), but then its internet 😃! The amount of fairness creams sold by different companies in India, and their marketing it is quite unpleasant. Infact while I had been watching the TV here, I had felt so uncomfortable I cannot mention 😃 (sorry if it seems silly, but you need to be in my shoes to understand that).

Plus 😃, I have noticed a "roopamrit" fairness pack where I am staying, used by Sameera - an Indian. She is so preety, but she is using maybe as her marriage is nearer?

So many thoughts come to me. But not to mentioned I have such a good experience with the welcome and hopitality I received in India. Something I could never have imagined in my wildest dreams, something I can never forget. Something that fulfills my life ... I am happy about my decisions. But ofcourse, I am a woman and proud of it.
thegameison thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 15 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: Polki_Zofi


@Kanky: About a woman being a "housemaker", I personally think that it is the best thing and the most prestigeous thing for a woman. This is something which lacks among many societies of my continent which I have always valued and is increasingly being valued by many in the west and rest of europe. But being an opinionless undignified submissive servant is not what is meant by being a "housemaker". Even the world "homemaker/housemaker" is so beautiful and promising 😊. It is a great career in itself I feel, as a career option (in strict business terms) it does have many benefits, ofcourse if well balanced.

Being respectful in one thing, and being left alone as a submissive obey'er of a family is so different. I have come to know that it is a part of the Indian cultural system, while ofcourse in the villages and small towns it is more difficult. If that is so, I just wonder what it can be like in there.




Housemaker sounds beautiful, I agree. But I don't personally feel it benefits the woman herself in anyway. With time, the woman just grows immune to the hurt of being jobless. Of course, taking care of the household and grooming up children are great jobs in themselves. However, I perceive this to be one kind of emotional satisfaction that a woman gets. No mental satisfaction, no feeling of being special. When before her life ends and she has all the chapters of her life open next to her eyes, she might realize she could have done something for herself too. Beyond her family and kids. Maybe she was capable enough of doing much more than the household chores. I, being a very opinionated and ambitious teenager fail to find anything prestigious in being a housmaker, because a majority of people for whom a Woman does all the work at all consider it ordinary. The work of a housemaker is very rarely acknowledged, neither her man nor her children ever acknowledge the contribution of that Indian woman in their own wellbeing. And this is one more aspect of the Indian society, that you need to know. I may sound cynical, cynical enough to bug you up - but this is what I see all around me.
Polki_Zofi thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#6
@Kanky: All women are supposed to decide for themselves. Happy to learn that you are an opinionated and ambitious (?) teenager. You have your own dreams, and that is just so wonderful. But dont you think that it is equally agressive to discount or ignore anything positive about the concept of "homemakers"?

Women in India is still a mystery to me. The more I try to find out the more I get a similar picture somehow that the Indian women could not rise along with their European sisters in the west at the same time. Still, facing alot of difficulties to rise. But being a woman from Europe, knowing the potential of women, I definately feel that women in India should definately be assisted by Europeans as well as the Indian women herself rise and learn how their sisters in Europe gained their liberty.

I can see you are a very spirited person who is unafraid to voice her opinions. I dont know if you live in India? But in Europe and USA there are Indian women who have found a better life perhaps.

My perception about being a homemaker (along with growing perceptions throughout European communities) is certainly different from yours.

First of all, being empowered also means that you are free from what other people decide of your status. You said that you think that "majority of people for whom the woman is a homemaker thinks it is ordinary", to this I think this woman is not the woman I am talking about. Perhaps you are talking about the Indian woman, but I am not one. To me a girl chooses being a homemaker as her own decision, not because what others think of it! If you care for others so much, dont you think that working in some commercial place would also get you similar comments from different groups? Yes ofcours! Think about it. If it is about others, then they will certainly not stop at anything you do, whether it is an irresponsible husband or a reckless child. But if you talk about a responsible husband and a respectful child, then they will respect and value your priceless contribution to the family which you selected by yourself (in any form you felt right).

I believe in decisions coming for consultation in a family, specially for a married man and woman. But consultation among equally important people, with logic reigning supreme (not ego, neither false pride).

As for your feeling that the woman will reflect back and be disappointed. Then it is really sad. Emotional satisfaction without mental satisfaction cannot ever sum into satisfaction. Infact this is a sought of inner conflict that results in unhappiness as well as mental disorders. I certainly dont think that any healthy human should consider any such thing for themselves which causes them an inner conflict. If it does, then they are in deep trouble.

I think her feeling of being special can come through something productive. What can be more productive than laying the foundations of life on earth? There are people who do not respect that, but there are people who do. Would she count herself among those who do not respect or fail to realise the importance of her role? It is one think to wish to do something else, and another to discount a career option (i.e. being a homemaker) as being unproductive or something that denies her proper identity.

If a woman thinks that being a home maker is cheating herself. Then she is probably not at inner peace with this concept of hers. She should choose her own way of life. But thinking that "homemakers" are cheating themselves of better things is plain ignorance on her part. As her job may be respectful, but other careers/routes of life are so much important aswell. I know atleast that in Europe we feel its importance now, and so does many Americans. But I think we have been there, seen it ...

As for these concepts of homemakers and other careers. I dont think it applies to India yet. India in itself is in many different kind of conflicts. Whether in or out, its a similar scenario of helplessness for many women.

As for the time being, the most important thing seems to be their proper nutrition (which lacks so much in Indian women, who look visibly weak or having other ailments). This is so big a problem, that anything else seem small. Probably their right to be the recipient of equal respect and care is something that comes right next to their health. Other things are just not into the picture for the ordinary woman in India.
thegameison thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 4
Posted: 15 years ago
#7
Yes, I live in India and well - I do not discount the job a homemaker does but I only voice my opinion about what being one actually means here in India. According to me, every woman is a homemaker and every young lady has some part to contribute in the wellbeing of her family. Women are still not treated as equals, hence - just about everything they do seems oridinary. Be it the food she cooks or her driving skills - the man has every reason under the sun to criticize her. People including my family tell me that I am the precise opposite of the image everybody has in mind with regard to the Indian Young Lady. And honestly - I don't get a thing out of the lifestyle people lead here, and the kind of position a woman upholds in the family. I don't belong here and that's another reason why you'd find my cynical enough all the way.

Reckless kids and irresponsible husbands don't seem so at first. When you look closer, you realize that the man as well as the woman have spent there lives together without much affection, without the stability required and totally deprived of the true aspects of a married life. The definition of a good wife/housemaker is this: The man has married her legally, she's giving birth to his children, bringing them up, cooking food and looking after his aged parents. And that is all - the woman at all is deprived of all the love she'd dreamt of as a girl to experience after she got married. Love here again is something off topic - for in Indian marriages, I find more of the Nibhaao factor and less of any sort of affection. People actually spend all their lives - LIKE this. Without even trying to figure out if the person's actually the one for them.


Polki_Zofi thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#8
By the way what is "Nibhaao" 😆, I know Hindi but very very less, and so very new in India at the moment that I am yet to learn enough Hindi to atleast understand the other person 🤔, but i will 😊

The picture you painted is yet another upsetting scenario. Maybe in India every woman is a homemaker, but it is not the same in the west or the rest of Europe. It is a growing importance atleast in Europe I know, because we can feel the sting at higher levels on different dimentions. But it is now a growing appreciation which is good.
The Indian girls are very innocent though. I wish they got all they deserved. I feel for what you have said, but I think being in India and speaking out is a very positive thing from you. Maybe if you feel equally for your women in family and country, and be in support of them when they need it, it will be the most important thing you ever did in life. The Indian woman love her family, so it can be a good attempt to try and explain her that her own health and initiative to explain her husband or family members to start realising her value is so very important. Otherwise what good is a soulless family? How can a husband or children even remain happy with a soulless mother or wife? It is a zombie hut then! With everyone suffering inner conflicts.
In the family I live, they are very cheerful people. I dont attempt to say too much, I dont want to be labelled a loud-mouth white woman trying to be smart in India 😃. But I do think that maybe at some point, if not by words than atleast through deeds, I will try to come beside the women here 😊
My husband is the most caring and balanced man, which really keeps me quite relaxed about him and his support. I think that before you marry someone, even as per your culture of being arranged, you need to see if he have some kind of realisation in him? Or atleast know the person enough to get some feelings for him, and even more importantly see if he gained some feelings for you!!

But still besides all that, look after your health 😊

For me, being in India is alot more than just a culture shock. I've never seen so many different looking people around. I guess getting stared at for being white is not too abnormal if its in a harmless way (😃, in little towns or villages back in Poland or any European country, our people also stare. So I really think it is not an issue at all, very normal infact).

Summer3 thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Trailblazer Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 15 years ago
#9
Yes there is bride burnig etc in India but such practises are on the decline. Throught education there has been much steps taken to liberalise women.
But in no country in the whole world is women more respected than in India. Goddess Durga is prayed to and often many women are treated as an aspect of Goddess and addressed to as "Ma".
this is what Sri Ramakrishna taught too.
Is is one aspect of Indian culture that I truly admire.
India will truly remain great because of this culture.
Edited by Summer3 - 15 years ago
Polki_Zofi thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#10
In Christianity/Europe aswell we have a great place for Mother Mary, as well as we have great souls like Mother Teressa who came to the rescue of so many children in need all the way from the benefits of being in her native land.

But I do respect Indian customs, it is just the plight of the woman in basic matters which took my attention. I am in India, I love so much about it and its people, but just as a woman I sit and think about my gender here.

I think it is very interesting that a godess is worshipped in India along with male gods and other animals with great powers as it is believed. But does it help the Indian woman? I find it hard to believe that it actually helps the average woman in her life. Would any woman accept being less cared or respected and being restricted as a lesser member of the household while a symbol of a powerful godess is being worshipped in respect of womanhood (is it worshiped in respect of womanhood or just worshipped along with so many other gods, godesses and devine animals is also a questions).

I think atleast the basic rights such as HEALTH AND RESPECT is something that needs so much reflection in such a great country which could give so much more to the world through its women who have so much potential surely.

Related Topics

Debate Mansion thumbnail

Posted by: Viswasruti · 2 months ago

Has Indian TV lost its charm? Why are viewers disengaged today? There was a time when Indian TV serials kept us glued to the TV screen. We used...

Expand â–¼
Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".