Please try to answer - Page 9

Looooong post, please try to read and please try to reply to the previous question, it is somewhere on page 10 I guess.

No, it was not disrespectful to address elders by their first names only. You can find out more about kinship terms in the Relatives in Mahabharata topic. If you want to ask questions about what characters called their relatives, please send a PM to Satrangi_Curls to ask her to reopen that topic.

Even if I request then also only few people will reply, poor me, I joined very late. Is anyone even active in this forum, who will even reply back? only 3-4 people are active and only you both are replying here.

that's what I was asking, I mean I have read Yudi saying to Arjun that "you should have not been born from Pritha" something like that, but did they really call them by their names on their faces, like "hey Pritha let's go" something like that.

No, the Draupadeyas would not have used the words māmā, cācā, kākā for Kṛṣṇa because they didn't speak Hindi. They spoke Saṃskṛta

Actually I know this word I think we write मातुल like this in Hindi (please correct me if I am wrong) it means maternal uncle which is almost same for mama, isn't it? mama is also the maternal uncle only and मातुल means like mother and mama also means the same.

mama toh I used for convenience, this is because whatever we say should be understood by everyone, of course there are alternatives for every relation name in Sanskrit as well.

and their mother called herself Kṛṣṇa's priyā sakhī, not his sister.

See, mama wala point toh I raised out of curiocity, but my main point was ki, ki why to associate every relation with romance, when sakhi has no problem, she herself calling sakha to Krishna toh why to say ki they romantically loved each other, my point is ki why a girl and boy cannot be friends, why we start seeing a girl and a boy with big big eyes as if we have seen strange creatures. matlab jo bhi dekhne mei cute laga vo husband wife hi ho is not necessary.

But even if someone calling them bro-sis then what's wrong, matlab there will be know change in their relation because everyone was married, matlab try to shed light on this as well.

After people are married to different people what's the point whether the friends are friends or bro sis, can't bro-sis be like friends, best friends or vice versa?

can't we see through both the angle.

1. we can just consider them just friends.

2. we can consider them bro-sis-friends (I don't know what I just said, please try to figure it out).

See this is toh clear that they were sakha and sakhi, but unlike shown in starplus where they knew each other even before pandavas is nowhere written, in fact as far as I have read there first dialogue was in Vanaparva, but they meat before also, when they went for picnic and both Subhadra and Draupadi were drunk and they started giving their jewelries and Krishna and Arjun went somewhere.

but majority of people started shipping them after seeing Pooja Sharma and SRJ onscreen, I must say they were looking good.

accha one more question, we have seen every friendship bond, Krishanarjun, then sakha sakhi, but why no Satyabhama and Arjun sakha sakhi bond? I mean Sanjay tells to Dhrit that Arjun's 1 foot was on Satyabhama, this was not possible if they were not good friends and that too in front of Krishna only, so this should be highlighted according to me.

It would have been all right if they had called Kṛṣṇa their mātula because Subhadrā, their father's/uncle's wife, would have been called their mother in that society. However, it was more polite to refer to their fathers' friend Kṛṣṇa as their father. They were training in his home, after all.

But if this is the case then it is even possible that whatever Abhimanyu was calling Krishna even the rest of the 5 brothers would have been calling the same, possible naa? but now the question is ki what was Abhimanyu calling him? because I don't think anywhere it is mentioned ki who called what to whom, Rishi Ved Vyas was not free like me.

We should all read the text to examine our assumptions about the society depicted in Mahābhārata. No, dancing was not uncommon for boys/men. Dancers performed every day in the battle camps of warriors like Yudhiṣṭhira, the Dhārtarāṣṭras, Aśvatthāman etc. Apart from dancing as a metaphor for agile or furious fighters like Abhimanyu, Yuyudhāna, Droṇa, Aśvatthāman, Dhṛṣṭadyumna, and Yudhiṣṭhira, warriors actually danced amidst their army, hugging each other (Droṇaparvan 165.63):

What about the royal people, did they dance? Arjun and Krishna were actually interested in dancing music and all the related things, that's why Arjun even learnt the art of music and dance, I want to know any royal men doing such thing, it will be an interesting thing for me to know something new.

Shedding tears, or even bawling for one's parents while lying on one's back with both arms raised, was perfectly consistent with masculine morality (Āraṇyakaparvan 281.94):

evam uktvā sa dharm'ātmā guru-vartī guru-priyaḥ

ucchritya bāhū duḥkh'ārtaḥ sasvaraṃ praruroda ha

naa naa, I am talking about now, I gave an example ki they cannot cry because what people will say, my point is ki we just have restricted ki these things a man can do and these things he cannot do, Wait, I think I could not explain my point properly, let me try once again.

see suppose if a boy and a girl are walking together with their hands on each others shoulder or if a girl is keeping her head on her male friend's shoulder then people will be like "awwwww so cute, kisi ki nazar naa lage" and so on

but if the same thing is done by 2 boys then they will straight away call them gay. Matlab why? Who gave them right to call them like this? just because they are enjoying each others company for sometime so people start asuming they are not interested in the opposite gender.

This is very less in girls, if there are two girls behaving in such a way toh they say ki they look like sisters, so why not with men. , this should be stopped according to me.

But again its just my thought, I am no one to force my own belief system on anyone.

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

but calling someone gay simply is not fair

Even these typical boys-stuff and girls-stuff is also made up right, and extremely harmful in their own right. However, we must make a conscious effort as a progressive society to not use LGBTQIA+ labels as insults. So imo, the more people get offended when someone calls them or their favourite characters/gods by such a label, the more alienating the situation becomes for actual members of the queer community. Consider the case a young child who might be queer, and if they encounter such a discussion where calling Krishna/Arjun gay or some other non-heterosexual label is immediately marked as an insult/unfair/accusation, that child will be lot more uncomfortable with idea of being themselves. You know right that such alternative interpretations will not affect Krishna/Arjun even a single bit, they're off enjoying their afterlife somewhere. The acceptance of these interpretations will only help (in the best case scenario) integrate the queer community into the society that has practically denounced their existence so far.

I get it, it doesn't feel nice to be mislabeled but see, if a kid sees me getting called 'gay' or whatever, and I don't react negatively to it and I brush it off with a simple explanation, then that kid also understands that this is not a bad word, and rather the people using it as a slur/insult are just misinformed and under-educated.

A random example, I wear my grandmother's old wedding bangle (the red one that bengali women wear) on my hand. I've had multiple people come and ask me if I'm married/pretending to be married. Now, I know why I wear it (and it's not because of the above reasons, it's just my lucky charm), and no amount of what people might say will alter that. Now you tell me, just because I'm not married, should I get offended every time someone makes an assumption based on useless and harmful stereotypes about what married women look like? This isn't a perfect comparison, but just something to consider.

As far as I know gay people are one who are not interested

Being simply gay isn't the only option out there. Like I'd mentioned bisexuality se lekar asexuality tak bahut kuch hai beech mein. At the very core of it, you get attracted to whoever your heart/brain wants. You have the option to either sit and identify a pattern with who all you are attracted to, then label it, or just go with the flow and bask in the love. Either way, your choice. This 'pattern' is there in your brain from childhood only, even for those who it changes, even that inclination is there from birth.

At the end of the day, you are who you are, and you love who you love. Everything else is made-up.

If we are looking Urvashi wala thing then why cannot we see this

Here also, same problem we have, but with a different part of the community. Just because Arjun took that 'role', he didn't do the trans community any specific favour. Rather, from the story standpoint (in the versions where Arjun isn't/doesn't become a trans woman), he takes advantage of an already marginalized community's stereotypical image to protect his own interests. Sure it's great that Arjun isn't transphobic, but that's like the bare minimum that can be expected of a human being right? Also, we do see him getting mistreated just because he looks like a trans woman at that moment (right before the war he goes to with Uttar), and we see Arjun himself leaning into the jokes, exaggerating. That entire part from the war preps to after Arjun starts fighting is iffy. Urvashi was also iffy for treating the trans community like 'curse material', I mean let 'em breathe man!

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

And one more thing, Draupadi loved Krishna, matlab that romantic wala love.

First off, Drau-Krishna ka ship is wayy older, in fact it's older than the BRC Mahabharat. In face in my home library only I have like 3 published, cult-classic books that ship them.

It's toh now, that I've seen more of a pushback to this pairing, like on tumblr and IF etc.

Personally, I feel like a major reason why Drau is so shipable with everyone is because her strong and fiery personality makes her one of the very few well-written, life-like women in our literature. Hence, when you place her against any of the other male characters, the chemistry is instantly a hit because nearly all the male characters have gotten proper attention in terms of character development.

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

Also does anyone knows about the performance by Sri Parshwanath Upadhye of Arjuna? What was it all about?

Yess, Parshwa sir is one of my all-time favourite artists! His Abha and Suta productions are literally two of my favourite-est dance dramas in our time!

I literally cried like a baby when I saw his Paartha (and he was soo kind to read my OS on Arjun AND give feedback based off of that!)! The production introduced us to Arjun after he had already fallen (at the end), and then takes us into his brain, as he contemplates the different choices he has made in his life, Draupadi, Krishna and the war. It's absolutely marvelous, and you should definitely check it out, should it become available on the net or if Parshwa sir comes to your city with it!

Originally posted by: wayward

I don't think our ancient society was anytime transphobic, at least the the broad minded people were toh definitely not, he was probably teased because they were not supposed to participate in the war, but again I am not sure, how general people behaved, but I wonder whenever they use to tease him how he would have been reacting? naa naa, he did not do any favor on trans community, but I was saying it is not easy for a man to act like that, just think about today's men, will my family members even think of doing that ya phir humme se kisi ke bhi family members aaisa kar paenge?

Its not about favor, its about daring, he already knew that people will tease him, people did that in Dwapar Yug and see, in this Yug also people are speculating on his gender till today, so currage toh lagta hai, I think when it comes on doing the same it is difficult no matter how much we say.

Trans people are respected from the era of Lord Ram, that Saryu nadi wala incident toh is well known to everyone, in our house toh we consider it to be a blessing if any trans person enters in any auspicious occasion.

Hey, after reading what you have said I think I am homophobic, but I don't disrespect them, I mean I want them to get equal opportunity in job, education etc, but still if someone calls me something like that then I feel bad, not just lesbian, even if someone says ki dekho kaisi ladko wali harkate kar rahi hai toh bhi I say ki why, who told you ki ye ladko ko hi karna chahiye.

So I basically mean ki on the one hand while it may lead to inclusion at the same time when people will tease those who are actually not homosexual toh it may impact their mental health badly, everyone is not strong naa.

but again, you have very nice opinion, admirable.

First off, Drau-Krishna ka ship is wayy older, in fact it's older than the BRC Mahabharat. In face in my home library only I have like 3 published, cult-classic books that ship them.

It's toh now, that I've seen more of a pushback to this pairing, like on tumblr and IF etc.

Personally, I feel like a major reason why Drau is so shipable with everyone is because her strong and fiery personality makes her one of the very few well-written, life-like women in our literature. Hence, when you place her against any of the other male characters, the chemistry is instantly a hit because nearly all the male characters have gotten proper attention in terms of character development.

Even Satyabhama was firy, why don't they ship her? Its not like I want her to get shipped, but my point is ki jinki shadi ho gai hai unko khush rehne dena chahiye I think.

Yess, Parshwa sir is one of my all-time favourite artists! His Abha and Suta productions are literally two of my favourite-est dance dramas in our time!

I literally cried like a baby when I saw his Paartha (and he was soo kind to read my OS on Arjun AND give feedback based off of that!)! The production introduced us to Arjun after he had already fallen (at the end), and then takes us into his brain, as he contemplates the different choices he has made in his life, Draupadi, Krishna and the war. It's absolutely marvelous, and you should definitely check it out, should it become available on the net or if Parshwa sir comes to your city with it!

Ruko ruko, you write FFs bhi kya? I wanna read, I also wanna read your OS, please tell me where have you written?

dw I wil not judge even if your opinion will different then my opinion.

accha one more thing, now we are talking about FFs and Os toh I wanted to ask you something, mai baar baar bhool jati hoon as we start discussing sooooo many things.

I have read your Rukmini Satyabhama and Jv stories, where have you written about the remaining 5? the un teeno kaa parts were awesome, please agar baaki bhi likhe hain toh tell me naa?

Also, are you on wattpad? if yes then please tell me kya username hai?

Yess, Parshwa sir is one of my all-time favourite artists! His Abha and Suta productions are literally two of my favourite-est dance dramas in our time!

I literally cried like a baby when I saw his Paartha (and he was soo kind to read my OS on Arjun AND give feedback based off of that!)! The production introduced us to Arjun after he had already fallen (at the end), and then takes us into his brain, as he contemplates the different choices he has made in his life, Draupadi, Krishna and the war. It's absolutely marvelous, and you should definitely check it out, should it become available on the net or if Parshwa sir comes to your city with it!

Can you please tell what happened in that dance drama?

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

I don't think our ancient society was anytime transphobic,

He didn't have much of a choice but to stay quiet right? Yes, it is difficult for men to act in any way other than hyper-masculine. But as Krishna's friend, you can expect at least a little bit of that sort of don't-care attitude from Arjun. For the Mastya incident, I personally felt like after having spent an entire year in the vicinity of Brihannala, Uttar and other helping people would've been a little more sensitive. It seemed like only Draupadi had his back at that point, but that was even partly definitely because she knew it was Arjun, but there's a strong case to be made for her tolerance given Shikhandi is her sibling. Also, I think Arjun had some experience with drag (if you consider the legend where he has to dress like a woman to attend Krishna's rasa). Plus Krishna-Iravan, Krishna-dressed-as-a-woman-and-Radha (this one's mostly on the side of drag more than romance), Shiva-Mohini, Budha-Ila, Surya/Indra-Rksharaja, Shikhandi(ni)-their-wife: all these relationships considered, Arjun wasn't really that much out of his known realm.

Trans people are respected from the era of Lord Ram,

Yes, that is correct. However, in my experience, that is too little to make up for their mistreatment all the other days of the year, right? I've seen my family members be downright scared, when a transperson comes close to them. As a society we should work hard to overcome this, such that the first thought in our head when we see the members of the trans community is not to think of ways to escape the situation.

Hey, after reading what you have said I think I am homophobic,

These opinions are okay to have short-time, if you are actively trying to be better each day. Nobody's born perfect, and our society has taken special care to indoctrinate each one of us with homophobic ideals, and we must all work to free ourselves of it. It's natural to feel bad when someone bullies you, and it's obviously abhorrent to use LGBTQIA+ labels to bully someone. All that matters here is whether one is making the effort or not.

Even Satyabhama was firy, why don't they ship her? Its not like I want her to get shipped, but my point is ki jinki shadi ho gai hai unko khush rehne dena chahiye I think.

Satyabhama is a beautiful character, very few women in literature have gotten her sophistication. I think she doesn't get shipped much because she already has a bad rep (totally unfair, but she's got it) with the tulabharam story being her most famous one. Add to that, she didn't really get enough screen time with anyone other than Krishna, Arjun and Draupadi. So, you could argue that maybe she kept out of the public eye, choosing to focus on her own family/hobbies/something. Draupadi on the other hand, as an empress, was much more visible. She has plenty of scenes with her hubbies, Krishna, Karna, Dury, Dushy, and everyone under the sun. So, it's easier to extrapolate her and put her in different situtations (with diff partners), because you mostly know from her characterization, how she's going to react to each situation. This is more difficult with Satyabhama.

Also all these ships are effectively AUs right? For me personally that's fine.

Ruko ruko, you write FFs bhi kya? I wanna read, I also wanna read your OS, please tell me where have you written?

First, toh thank you so much for having read my stuff (where'd you read the first 3 parts)? That story btw is called Ehi Murare and it's on IF, tumblr and wattpad.

The Arjun OS is called Tyaga, it's also on all 3 places.

All my stories are available both on IF (my profile ka fan fiction page) or on Wattpad (un: kanakangi)

Direct Links:

Tyaga

Ehi Murare

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

Can you please tell what happened in that dance drama?

I don't remember the exact things, but if I'm not wrong it ended with Arjun imagining (or actually seeing) Krishna coming down to be with him in his last moments and then take him away with himself.

I myself am dying to re-watch it! I watched it online around the beginning of the pandemic.

@BrhannadaArmour

As you are often active on this forum, do you have any idea if any of the older members are active or not? Like HearMeRoar or someone else, actually I don't agree with there many opinions but this is what makes a conversation fruitful, isn't it? If the conversation goes unidirectional then what's the fun, we should all have different opinions, tabhi toh a discussion will become more spicy

See like here you, @wayward and me have different opinion, so here we can at least reply and counter reply, in this way we can move further and I am glad that no one is getting irritated (or even if you both are getting toh bhi I don't think you will say that).

So if you know them can you please ask them to join?

Accha, one more thing, I can only tag you but no one else, how come?

Originally posted by: wayward

I don't remember the exact things, but if I'm not wrong it ended with Arjun imagining (or actually seeing) Krishna coming down to be with him in his last moments and then take him away with himself.

I myself am dying to re-watch it! I watched it online around the beginning of the pandemic.

Hey, this making me emotional, I mean I am not very emotional kind of person, but seriously ye sun kar kuch kuch ho raha hai.

Was that in Bengali?

hey wait, I have also heard somewhere that Krishna escaped with Arjun, vo wali story hai naa, jisme Krishna gets shot and he leaves the body, instead of that I have heard ki when everyone started fighted and Krishna saw that there is no use of saying anything to anyone toh he just went away somewhere with Arjun and then I don't know what happened

Have you heard something like that? do you have any idea?

See as far as I know, it is not there in HV or in MB, if you know about any other text then please let me know.

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

Hey, this making me emotional, I mean I am not very emotional kind of person, but seriously ye sun kar kuch kuch ho raha hai.

Was that in Bengali?

It was most prob in Hindi/Kannada/Sanskrit mix.

hey wait, I have also heard somewhere that Krishna escaped with Arjun,

Yeh wala toh nahi suna kabhi, but it sounds sweet!

Also, the tag thing is an IF feature. I guess once you have posted it with some tags, then upon editing you can't add more.

Just open the Members List and mouse-over each member to see when s/he last visited India Forums. That's how I decide which complete strangers to tag when I want to share something.

I don't socialize much (e.g. I don't accept Friend Requests, so I never get feeds of who posted where), but occasionally someone who has been a member for 10+ years without ever posting or commenting decides to reply to something that I posted. You never know who is silently reading until you write something that provokes a response.

There are lots of features that allow you to increase your visibility or reach out to others. Tagging, PM, Slambook questions, Scrapbook/Wall posts, Testimonial, comment on Fan Fiction ... You decide what you are comfortable doing. Some people will Block you for reaching out to them, but others will at least take a look at what you have to say.