Respectful Language: 'Aap' Vs 'Tu' - Page 3

Absolutely Tu makes me really uncomfortable and upset.

Aap is connected with respect and this word whether used for elders or youngsters makes me feel elated and respectful.

Tum sounds better than Tu or Tera.

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

Work place ethics is completely different perspectives. Doesn't matter from wherever you belong, work place ethics and pronouns, the way of addressing cant be changed on the basis of linguistic preferences. Its mostly same every where. I didn't comment in this context.

What I was talking about is some people due to their cultural context accepts/ prefer tu as term of endearment. Mostly the educated people understand that it's not ok to refer someone as tu outside their home because people may be coming from different parts of country but uneducated or say people from weak financial background like taxi, auto rickshaw driver, bus conductor may not be aware of this kind of situation so they continue to use word tu with outsiders also. Now outsider may feel bad if he/she is new at a place but once he gets to know the culture I dont think there is anything to take offence. They didn't mean to disrespect you, its just their way of addressing the people. And the whole place is not going to change according to new person, new person must change and adapt according to new place.

Also circumstances and situation, emotions involved in conversation are the best judge and play an important role. For example if auto rickshaw driver or bus conductor normally talks to you and use word tu then they dont mean to disrespect you. But if a shopkeeper addressing rich looking people as aap and you are not that decked up so he just address you as tu then its definitely an insult.

Similarly a person who usually uses aap ia using tu in anger then definitely its insulting.

That's exactly I want to say. Words used makes the difference. At work place, market what one speaks decides the kind of response he may get.

In the Marathi context, tu is essentially the Hindi tum, and tumhi is essentially the Hindi aap.

So, while it might be a bit of a culture shock, tu in Marathi doesn't have the same connotation or perceived disrespect as tu in Hindi.

Think of it like the French tu/vous structure.

PS- while there is an aapan in Marathi, it isn't really used. So the same three layer structure for Hindi (tu/tum/aap) as it prevails in the North doesn't quite apply in MH.

I find the usage of "Tu" when addressing a stranger very weird and to an extent rude.

I think many people avoid it as well. I've been rarely addressed like that so far ...it was mostly Aap. Maybe it differs from person to person. Be it local vendors to high end shop holders...they tend to mostly use Aap.

Now the usage of Tu ... I've seen that mostly between friends or with people we are familiar with.

Originally posted by: aekiel

PS- while there is an aapan in Marathi, it isn't really used. So the same three layer structure for Hindi (tu/tum/aap) as it prevails in the North doesn't quite apply in MH.

You are referring to a secondary usage of the pronoun āpaṇa when you say it isn't really used. The primary usage is as first person plural subject pronoun inclusive of addressee, and as such, āpaṇa is used all the time. For example, āpaṇa bolalo means, you and we talked. You can't speak Marathi without using āpaṇa for this purpose.

Āpaṇa instead of tumhī, the second person plural subject pronoun that is also used as an honorific second person singular subject pronoun, is one secondary usage. Whereas tumhī keeps the addressee at a respectful distance, āpaṇa is more friendly. For example, āza āpaṇa khuśīta disatā corresponds to colloquial English "Aren't we cheerful today?" This friendly tone is due to the linguistic origin of āpaṇa (modern Marathi) from appaṇo - one's own (Māhārāṣṭrī Prākṛta), equivalent to ātmanaḥ (Saṃskṛta).

There's also svataḥ - yourself - that can be substituted for tumhī, similarly to āpaṇa. Tumhī kāya ṭharavale? - What did you decide? is distant; Āpaṇa kāya ṭharavale? - What did we decide? is friendly; Svataḥ kāya ṭharavale? - What did yourself decide? is somewhere in between.

Another secondary usage in some dialects is āpuṇa (āpaṇa) as a dignified first person singular subject pronoun.

In Mumbai you will find Maharashtrians addressing strangers with Tum and Tu. I've never heard people from UP, Jharkhand, Bihar etc use these terms for strangers. They will always use Aap.

Interesting topic devashree

I've always used Aap when talking to elders and even when I talk to people younger than me and strangers. I prefer Aap over Tu. I am used to it.

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

Work place ethics is completely different perspectives. Doesn't matter from wherever you belong, work place ethics and pronouns, the way of addressing cant be changed on the basis of linguistic preferences. Its mostly same every where. I didn't comment in this context.

What I was talking about is some people due to their cultural context accepts/ prefer tu as term of endearment. Mostly the educated people understand that it's not ok to refer someone as tu outside their home because people may be coming from different parts of country but uneducated or say people from weak financial background like taxi, auto rickshaw driver, bus conductor may not be aware of this kind of situation so they continue to use word tu with outsiders also. Now outsider may feel bad if he/she is new at a place but once he gets to know the culture I dont think there is anything to take offence. They didn't mean to disrespect you, its just their way of addressing the people. And the whole place is not going to change according to new person, new person must change and adapt according to new place.

Also circumstances and situation, emotions involved in conversation are the best judge and play an important role. For example if auto rickshaw driver or bus conductor normally talks to you and use word tu then they dont mean to disrespect you. But if a shopkeeper addressing rich looking people as aap and you are not that decked up so he just address you as tu then its definitely an insult.

Similarly a person who usually uses aap ia using tu in anger then definitely its insulting.

I really liked the way you explained this. Lot of times it's not just the words, but the tone and intent behind what's being spoken matters. Someone saying 'Aap' in a sentence could be rude, too.

Addressing the original situation in my post, About conductors, many times they address their passengers in 'ekeri', as in singular pronoun. The guy being new to Mumbai found it rude and in one brush generalized the whole of the city.

Well honestly mumbaikars don't care, their timetable is scheduled according to to the local train timetable even when they don't have to travel by train...... Very time-minded people plus chances of encountering and recognizing same stranger would be like one in fifty something so we wouldn't think (or care) much about offending people. You expect the TC to look in your eyes smile "please ticket nikalke dikha do didi" by the time the guy finishes with like five people doh station nikal jayenge and chalis bina ticket wale local se jump kar denge. Time nhi hai bro! 😛

With due respect remember new city for YOU, y'all are to rehabilitate/relocate or whatever not us😳

About respectable words:

If it works for us then it works for us, why everything has to have a logical/reasonable explanation? It is what it is! Simple.

You really expect strangers in a fast paced city like Mumbai to check where are y'all from and then talk accordingly? Again it's YOU who are relocating/visiting whatever 😳

Shouldn't accepting linguistical diversity be the "real" respect give and take here? It's bambaiya Hindi (a dialect between local people) not everyone uses sanskritized Hindi.... don't impose this pure respect words on us just coz northies/southies want to relocate in a comfortable place😡🤪

I am currently learning Hindi. One of the first things I learned was how to use aap, tum and tu. My teacher explained to me that the respectful form of address aap is used for elders, strangers and also between spouses. She also said that in Mumbai tum/tu is often used for everyone, while in the North the respectful form of address aap is used for elders and strangers. She's from Mumbai but uses aap because it is also lived in her parents' home. For me, it's simply a form of decency and naturally to behave respectfully towards elders and strangers.