Respectful Language: 'Aap' Vs 'Tu' - Page 2

Originally posted by: devashree_h

Recently on SM, there was a User who pointed out how when she asked for directions in Mumbai, she was referred to as 'Tu'. Being from Delhi, she found this behaviour unacceptable. Another User also pointed out how he was "disrespectfully spoken to" by a Bus conductor who told him "tereko aage jake khada honeka". Unsurprisingly, it started a heated debate about linguistic and cultural differences of the country.

• Is it presumptuous of people from certain regions of India to expect other Indians to speak Hindi in a certain way?
• Does 'Tu' imply a sense of intimacy and shouldnt be used for strangers?
• Are Delhites more polite than Mumbaikars?

Tu is used when you are familiar with the person and Aap is used when you are meeting people for the first time. These are common sense which we should not connect with states. One should be respectful towards people and if the person calls you tu, asked them what right they have to call tu?

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

@ bold I understand what you are trying to say but thats what this topic is about. People may find it offensive if "tu" is used for elders but in marathi mostly children use "tu " for their parents, elders, relatives and its not considered as disrespectful.

Thats the language barrier in cultural context the topic creator wants to point out I guess.

Yes, we Maharashtrians dont always refer to our elders as Aap version 'Tumhi'. Kaka, Mama, Mom are many times referred as Tu. The original issue which started this discussion, was by two users, one complaining about possibly her similar aged colleague and other about BEST conductors. Even Ajji is referred as tu.

Originally posted by: mnx12

At times tu is deliberately used to demean someone. I have come across some cases during shopping, where young people will deliberately asks, tumhe kya chahiye. Tumhare ko ye achha lagega. I straight away, walk out of such shops. Never to go there again. They've lost a customer for life time.

Hindi isn't my language, so please correct me if I misstate any facts here.

Tumhe and tumhāre are the dative and genitive declensions of tuma, whereas tujhe and tere are the corresponding declensions of tū.

The people whose manners offend you think they are using polite pronouns without formality. If they actually wanted to be familiar with you, they would say "tujhe kyā cāhiye" and "tereko yaha acchā lagegā."

It's interesting to me that you make lifetime shopping decisions based on pronouns. That luxury is available in places like Mumbai where you won't run out of options. There are other parts of the world where language more accurately reflects segregation and discrimination, and non-discrimination policies can improve the quality of life.

For example, in the U.S.A.'s Jim Crow South, it took decades for black-skinned people to convince white-skinned strangers to stop addressing them as boy and girl, Uncle and Aunt, and to prefix their family names with Mr. and Mrs. titles. When the Wall Street Journal referred to racist murderer Dylann Roof as "Mr. Roof" in 2015, that was humiliating for civil rights activist Myrlie Evers. The news media had refused to dignify her as "Mrs. Evers" in reports of her struggle to convict her husband's murderer from 1963 to 1994.

We give the rights to call us tum by only our family and maybe some close elders we know, like neighbors. Otherwise being addressed as Tu or tum isnt acceptable by any random person we meet. Its certainly disrespectful.

It's not just Hindi. All Indian languages have the with respect without respect pronouns.

I'm a Tamilian. In our language Nee is Tum, and Neenga is aap. When I go outside or talk to others apart from family, I definitely prefer Neenga, even if it's my colleagues.

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

@ bold I understand what you are trying to say but thats what this topic is about. People may find it offensive if "tu" is used for elders but in marathi mostly children use "tu " for their parents, elders, relatives and its not considered as disrespectful.

Thats the language barrier in cultural context the topic creator wants to point out I guess.

When tu is used for an elder by a much younger person, when both are complete strangers, it sounds disrespectful.

Among known people this question doesn't arise. At work place too giving respect to your senior matters. Imagine a junior addressing his manager as tu, what kind of impression he is giving? It's better to correct them at that moment only.

I am well versed in both Hindi & Marathi. Being called tu, by an elder is perfect because I respect his age & experience.

At work front people liked to be respected.

Examples given in my previous posts are the one which sounded humiliating. It's completely my choice of not giving them business.

It's very important to know are they loosing or gaining anything by using tu?

Once I wanted to buy a bag. In the shop one elderly lady had come to buy too. A young sales person, asks her in a loud voice- Ai aunty, tereko kya chahiye? He could have asked- Aunty aapko kya chahiye?

So words, tone, who's using them all makes a big difference.

In a way, this is the same as you vs. thou in English where the second person singular pronoun used to be thou and the second person plural used to be you.

Thee was reserved for "social inferiors" or to express "familiarity" while you was used to convey deference or formality.

In modern English, thou and its variants (thee, thy, thine, thyself) are archaic. It's you, pretty much everywhere; all persons are addressed with the same respect, whether or not one actually intends to give respect.

Indians didn't get rid of the tu/tum and its variants in any language and that's a shame! Everyone knows that "informality" or "endearment" are not the only factors which dictate the usage of these pronouns, that skin color, money and social status too play a huge part.

But, if it is of any consolation to those who are offended by these pronouns, God too was addressed as thee in English and as tu/tum and its variants in Indian languages, so there!

Originally posted by: mnx12

Examples given in my previous posts are the one which sounded humiliating. It's completely my choice of not giving them business.

It's very important to know are they loosing or gaining anything by using tu?

Once I wanted to buy a bag. In the shop one elderly lady had come to buy too. A young sales person, asks her in a loud voice- Ai aunty, tereko kya chahiye? He could have asked- Aunty aapko kya chahiye?

People who have a customer facing role have to be polite, pleasant and respectful without exceptions, if they know what’s good for their business. If they are being disrespectful, they are either not too bright or are disgruntled with their owners/employers for a variety of reasons. Either way, it’s their loss! Smart businesses would encourage customer feedback that reaches owners/stakeholders.

Originally posted by: mnx12

When tu is used for an elder by a much younger person, when both are complete strangers, it sounds disrespectful.

Among known people this question doesn't arise. At work place too giving respect to your senior matters. Imagine a junior addressing his manager as tu, what kind of impression he is giving? It's better to correct them at that moment only.

Work place ethics is completely different perspectives. Doesn't matter from wherever you belong, work place ethics and pronouns, the way of addressing cant be changed on the basis of linguistic preferences. Its mostly same every where. I didn't comment in this context.

What I was talking about is some people due to their cultural context accepts/ prefer tu as term of endearment. Mostly the educated people understand that it's not ok to refer someone as tu outside their home because people may be coming from different parts of country but uneducated or say people from weak financial background like taxi, auto rickshaw driver, bus conductor may not be aware of this kind of situation so they continue to use word tu with outsiders also. Now outsider may feel bad if he/she is new at a place but once he gets to know the culture I dont think there is anything to take offence. They didn't mean to disrespect you, its just their way of addressing the people. And the whole place is not going to change according to new person, new person must change and adapt according to new place.

Also circumstances and situation, emotions involved in conversation are the best judge and play an important role. For example if auto rickshaw driver or bus conductor normally talks to you and use word tu then they dont mean to disrespect you. But if a shopkeeper addressing rich looking people as aap and you are not that decked up so he just address you as tu then its definitely an insult.

Similarly a person who usually uses aap ia using tu in anger then definitely its insulting.

Yes

Tu makes me uncomfortable

For us Aap is for elders and all the unknown people.

Tum is for acquaintance and who are younger to us.

We only call others Tu if they are my classmates, friends or to those younger to us if they are family or live in neighborhood otherwise we barely use Tu.

Yeah

It was too a shock for me to be called Tu by those who I don't know, but as I am understanding it is their culture so I try that it doesn't effect me much 😆