Does cinema promote hate against educated women? - Page 6

Dina Pathak is almost shown as a pain in neck for family in Khubsoorat.

I liked her for her social work and disciplinarian attitude but film only treats her as someone to be taught a lesson.

Or her family is fed up or tired of her. Khubsoorat was actually a taunt at Indira Gandhi and Dina's character is rumoured to be inspired by her and the household is microcosm representation of country under Emergency. There is even a dialogue in the film by Rekha in which she says yeh koi emergency hai kya.

The inquilaab zindabad song is also a taunt at Emergency and Hrishikesh Mukherjee himself was critic of Emergency.

His genius was to use household to make a larger political comment in that era and most people including Censor Board at that time did not realise what Hrishi da actually intended to do when he made that film and showed a tough as nails matriarch in that film under whose discipline her family is feeling stifled.

Sorry to deviate from point though.

But Dina is not liked or respected or shown as good person in Khubsoorat but as someone whose family members are reeling under her rule and her husband also shouts at her and scolds her that she does not let kids have fun. And she tries to justify that she keeps discipline just to avoid kids getting deviant or their health from being ruined.

It is she who yields by the end or realised she was wrong.

She is shown as oppressive and not entirely a good or respected or lovable woman but a feared woman.

So I am sorry but I do not see Dina Pathak as example of a strong woman shown in good light. Rather her character also shows same bias of authoritative woman or matriarch as a bitch of sorts whose husband and kids are feeling stifled by her.

She was also sexist when she said she does not need a woman who is tennis champion but someone who takes care of house. Though that can be excused as she is shown as older woman in 1970s and oldies still have such mindset towards women.

It is NOT about women's choices. Women do have choice. Though this is also debatable if it was indeed their choice or something influenced by family or socio cultural pressure or emotional blackmail or religious indoctrination. It is about desi filmmakers mostly showing women totally focused on career or highly educated or driven, foreign returned or city bred or professional women as bitches or someone working out of helplessness or losing morals to get success in profession (like Bhandarkar heroines sleep their way to top in every profession and end up wasted in life).

I just disagreed with DDLJ or Khubsoorat as examples of educated and career women not demonised, because frankly we are not even told as viewers what these heroines in these films even studied at all or whether Rekha even went to college or did correspondence course.

So for viewers they are safe bets anyway and not conventional highly educated women with some ambition or professional degree or tag of a big institute or professional status. Presented in a non threatening manner, with education only done till one grows old enough to get married or has something to quote in matrimonial about being educated.

The protagonist in Page 3 is a female journalist. No One Killed Jessica also has a journalist at the center fighting for justice.

Sherni is about a female forest officer who prioritizes her job and her unsympathetic husband is villainized.

The female cop in Mardaani is just as driven about cases as a male cop would.

Raazi is about a female spy who led to the most crucial intelligence report of a war.

Tumhari Sulu is about a housewife who aspires to have a career and is supported by her family.

In Dil Dhadakne Do the daughter wants to be an entrepreneur instead of just a wife and it is shown as something positive and meaningful.

Dr. G has the male protagonist surrounded by career-oriented women training to be doctors and has much to learn from them.

The new Khoobsurat has the protagonist as a physiotherapist.

One of the friends in Veere Di Wedding is a lawyer who shares struggles of dating while having a career.

In KhalNayak Ganga is a cop trying to catch the criminal.

In Raju Ban Gaya Gentleman Juhi Chawla works and supports her modest family and is responsible for Raju getting his job. In Phir Bhi Dil Hain Hindustani she is a rival journalist on an equal footing.

Abhimaan is a star is born, a tumultuous tale of a woman whose career exceeds her husband's.

Katrina Kaif plays an agent in the Tiger series and in Phantom.

Preity Zinta is doing an MBA in Kal Ho Na Ho, she plays a journalist in a few movies.

In Delhi Belly, Tashi chooses to be with his older rebellious and nonconformist colleague instead of his conformist ex-girlfriend.

Wake Up Sid has an independent woman with aspirations to be the guide that helps Sid get his life together.

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These are some I could think of now. Others on the topic have stated some. I could be missing many. And I am sure there are many many more movies that are shitty and misogynistic.

But I don't think women need to be shown as educated or career-oriented to have complex female characters or be feminist. Darlings and Raat Raani (Modern Love Mumbai) have female protagonists who build their lives around their husbands. In the end, the protagonists appear to be neither well-educated nor sure of what their next big dream is. Bulbbul is trapped by the patriarchy. But are some of the most feminist films made. Similarly, English Vinglish, Astitva, or Queen may have women who may not have had big dreams beyond marriage - but still take charge of their lives.

Expecting positive female portrayals to check the boxes of "educated" and "career-minded" is like trashing Fire Island for failing to pass the Bechdel Test.

Leave cinemas. Soap operas shows the reality of indian society. Indian society hates woman above 21 who is not married with kids. One of the kid has to be a boy. The girl needs to be slim and fair.

Originally posted by: colossial2015

The girl needs to be slim and fair.

Would you rather she be thick

Originally posted by: colossial2015

Leave cinemas. Soap operas shows the reality of indian society. Indian society hates woman above 21 who is not married with kids. One of the kid has to be a boy. The girl needs to be slim and fair.

How will the woman cry 24×7 about her husband having an affair if she has a career? Samjha Karo yaar baat ko!

Star Plus has an obssesion with 18 year olds falling for men older than them already commited to someone else (rn, they have 4 shows running with same plotline)

Beech mein kahin they sprinkle the career drive (journalism, doctor, racer and cricket player) but it all goes down (will go down) the drain when a kid will be introduced 🤣

Plenty of old films are about girls wanting to be housewives or not even wanting to study or not even fond of own parents and feeling like stranger in parental home and itching to have a man lay his eyes on her and take her to his home with baraat in doli.

Even until early 2000s we have had such films and we still have such serials too where lead actress says her only dream is to be housewife and have lot of kids.

I wonder why you felt need to ask for such content to be made when there is already plenty of it.

I really wonder what makes men and these cinema wale think a woman being a disciplinarian or career oriented or even a tough taskmaster or thorough professional is probably traumatised or bitter or just a bitch - who is is God knows how tolerated in family or by employees or is probably in need of being tamed or is spoilt.

Sadly I have noticed in real life too kids also tend to judge strict female teachers more and wonder how her family tolerates her. Or family or society or neighbours bash outspoken girls or girls who hold their ground or debate or question or argue well - and call them bad natured or threaten that no one will keep or tolerate them.

There seems to be lot of literature also by men wanting women to be quiet or sweet or cheerful or submissive and unquestioning but calling women spiteful or vamps if they are outspoken.

Mothers disciplining kids are bashed as too tough and lacking softness or being harsh and cold. Dad disciplining or scolding kids or even beating kids is seen as a good father doing his job right.

I did read an article in Atlantic that female bosses are perceived as rude or bitch if they are disciplinarian and as weak if they are too polite. And it creates dilemma for women on how to behave as leaders and get work done and female leaders are judged more harshly than males in leadership roles.

Double standards!

Originally posted by: Maroonporsche

Their parents should monitor them lmao

Parents hardly monitor kids. Sadly in desi culture, watching TV or films is a family or community activity.

All watch TV or films together and elders do not bother about its impact on kids. I have seen parents watch even films like Jism with kids or bring kids to watch A rated films like Delhi Belly giving excuse that how can they leave kids alone at home or hoping kid will not notice or understand anything or some also assume today's kids already know a lot so what is wrong in letting them watch films.

They do not monitor even what kids see or do online and give unrestricted access to internet to kids. Later remain in denial that kids got ruined seeing tv or films or internet or give excuses that who can monitor or stop kids or that they are too busy with own work at home and workplace to keep tab on what kids do or think.

Their excuses are ever ready. Most elders are negligent AF.

I have not seen many of these new films so I will reserve my views on it.

Page 3 shows Tara's character sleeping with an old producer to get work. Bhandarkar almost always shows women sleeping their way to top. Some way or other either through main lead or a side character.

The issue is not why a driven, career oriented woman was not shown but why demonise them at all or show them as bitches or frustrated or loose character or lonely if at all a film has to show them?

What is wrong in biopics of say someone like Indira Nooyi or the SBI chief?

Either desi cinema hardly shows such characters or they show them as frustrated or loose.

Even the Shakuntala Devi biopic by Vidya focused a lot on strained relation with her daughter, rather than center around the math genius the lady was.

I did mention Mardaani series as example of good portrayals of working woman, tough as nails woman without being a bitch or shown loose character.

Otherwise one has likes of Aitraaz too in which PC is a vamp for being ambitious and getting abortion when young and later for marrying a much older man to get ahead or trying to seduce her employee and trapping him in false case when he rejected her advances. Kareena is simple woman otherwise in film but dons lawyer robes only to fight her husband's case.

In comparison to such films, ones with normal or good career oriented or ambitious women are still less and somehow never as iconic or hyped as ones which show ambitious/educated/career oriented/leadership role women as degenerate.

I sometimes wonder if Kangana's character in Queen would travel by self or do some work on her own if she was not dumped by fiance at last moment. Or Sridevi would learn English if her own husband and daughter did not bash her publicly in EV and if her new coach did not teach her that she was an entrepreneur and not merely someone who made laddoos at home. Again - woman not having own dreams or need to prove self but being egged or compelled by a man or kid or someone else to recognise own worth.

Such women do exist but cinema should not pretend women with own dreams to prove their mettle without any tragedy in life, do not exist. Cinema often shows self motivated or driven women as bitches or loose.

Secret Superstar was another good film and so was Fanney Khan. The latter seemed special as dad is keen to support dream of daughter and protects her self esteem. Things have changed for better post mid 2010s though.

Vidya Balan in Kahani is good.

Not sure about Alia in Raazi as she regrets what she did and often breaks down and does feel entirely guilty after killing her husband and lands up depressed and alone in hospital room. She is not unapologetic about her job and dirty work she had to do. Though Indian films show male agents and spies also emotional or in love with female of other nationality or enemy camp spy or agent. So I will not judge Raazi alone for showing love or emotion.

Star Plus also has obsession with girls falling for married men and man also liking rural woman more compared to urban woman he married because urban woman=bitch.

Colors is even worse which shows rural ones better and even showed love story between a bride buyer and the trafficked girl he bought as bride, and love between married landlord and bonded labour shown as his one night slave after her dad failed to repay loan. Abuse is glorified as love and I wonder which pervert writes these serials.

Star Bharat is crap and showing Na Umar ki seema ho in which young employee falls in love with old boss. Already adding to stigma against working girls that they flirt with boss or get promotions or jobs by having affair with boss even if boss is dad's age with grey hair.

Do not even get me started on how crap TV is. I cannot believe we had serials like Udaan, Rajini in 90s but have this shit now in 2022.