Rape in a patriarchal society - Page 3

Originally posted by: lalaland23

Hi dear, I don't think you read my post properly. The law is the same but the degree of punishment for both will be very different. And the standard of evidence you need to prove is also very different. No one is saying both are equal, they are not. But both constitute rape. Now gang rape will have a much more severe punishment than a rape. Same way if rape was through misconception of fact, it is not consent and hence it is rape, but it won't be treated the same as a scenario where there was absolutely no consent or refusal of consent.

No one is putting them on equal pedestal. Both are different, the scenario B's victim is going through (based on the example you gave) deserves a much higher punishment but doesn't mean A doesn't deserve a punishment as well. Just that the victim of A will have more to prove to the court (believe me, it's not so easy especially for a woman) and also A will have a lesser punishment. If this law is not there, men can easily get consent from a woman by lying or cheating. If the woman would have never consented if she knew the truth how can it be real consent? This way many people can get away with it.

So rape is rape, but the severity and degree of it will vary, and also the standard of evidence which in my opinion is fair. The change that needs to be brought is that it be made gender neutral and strict provisions for misuse.

Underlined : Agreed Laws must be gender neutral and there must be strict provisions for misuse ...

Nice discussing with you di 🙂 , thanks mere itne lambu lambu post padhne ke liye😁 .....

Originally posted by: ItsmeAzra

Rape nahin tha voh dear,yes what Vanraj did was wrong,but Anupama had consented to it willingly,keeping aside the fact that she didn't know his real intentions, but she wasn't forced or manipulated consent jaisa kuch nahin hota.

I disagree.

It was manipulated consent. Pre-marital sex is considered rape when the guy promises to marry the woman and then later declines. The woman gives consent only because she thinks he loves her and will marry her. That is manipulated consent.

Anupama thought Vanraj was making love to her. Would she have consented if she knew his real intentions? No. She was disgusted later on when she sensed reality.

Thats rape.

On a philosophical note, they say children born out of loveless unions have an innate lack of empathy. Example Voldemort. Pakhi reminds me of this. I am sure though that this is co-incidental as the writers don’t have this much wisdom lol.

I would like to say this whether husband sleeps with woman without permission with or without force

Or a

Stranger man or men force themselves without a girl permission forcefully like dimple case

THATS RAPE

Yes in majority cultures a husband has all right over a woman after marriage. But thats wrong its a woman right to say yes or no to a man whether husband or not. Because only a woman has all right over her self her body no one not even husband has rights over her body just because hes married her all life 24/7. No means no even for husband. Will any man or husband do against his wishes as per wife never. So why only woman should obey man without questioning when shes not interested too? Vanraj spent time with anupama because Baa told him to make her pregnat so she never goes to USA.

Take example of Malvika Kapdiya only her husband married her. So he has right to everyday force himself on her and hit her in belt etc is it? Is what Mlavika husband did not a rape? Many educated husbands also want wife who are doctors or IT professionals to cater to their every need because thats how patrichial mindset thinks. They still want wife to cook and serve them, after coming from work at night or please them although wives may be tired after work. Wife has to bend to all hubby wishes just to maintain marraiges whether india or USA whether educated or not mostly. Rarely a man will bend to wife wishes thats hardly 10%.

Many husband take advantage of society not saying anything about wife rights and sleep with them against their will even if they say no. Because majority men think once married they own the woman her money her body her property etc means woman is like property of man to do whatever he wants. But if world is modern than woman should not live with midi veal rules is it not?

Do not vanraj and toshu come with the medieval mindset that man has all right over his wife? 90% of men in asia whether educated or not think same. Malvuika husband was from USA that did not stop him from treating her badly because of patriarchal mindset.

Even USA has not recruited a woman president so far because of this thinking only.

Will you say Malvika husband was k to hit his wife in belt and force himself on her every night becaue hes husband.

Anupama was not so aware like a Malvika about abuse and thought its wife duy to sublit to husband as per his wish. If anupama was as educated as malvika than to bend her vanraj would have hit her too. But anupam awas like a meak lamb who bent to all his wishes so vanraj need not make her submit to him by hitting in belt like a malvika hubby no. So whats so great about vanraj not hitting anupama. Anupama had slave mentality towards vanraj so why vanraj will be hitting her when without hitting only shes submitting to him always. Where as malvika is educated know her rights so she opposed hubby and got hit in belt and raped. If malvika also was like anupama like salve submitting to her hubby he would not hit in belt or force himself on malvika. Now as per survey 50% woman are ok if hubby hit them in india so majority are ok with huby hitting. So its like anupama case they will not oppose no matter what a hubby does. Unlike an educated Malvika who may oppose and get hit or raped. I wish they had shown Malvika story in detail after marraige now. Thats a great story compared to this dimple case.

Actually the fact that vanraj never raised hands on anupama is spoken in his favour by anupama always. I am not sure how vanraj never raised hands on her because such abusive men raise hands on wife 100% atleast in initial years to control the wife. In india its said 83% men think its ok if husband beat wife. And more than 40% husband raise hand on wife in india. Means out of 3 husband 1 beat wife they only agree the men. I am sure 70% hit their wife but never say in public. I have heart IT professionals woman working in top company say their husband hit them or threw things at them in anger. So if someone earning lakhs per month can be beaten by hubby they keep quiet imagine others condition.

In india a father can beat daughter a brother can beat sister and a husband can beat wife and police and society will not say anything. Its all brushed under family fights etc

Same is case of a wife she can be beaten or raped by husband and cannot say outside as her own parents and siblings or friends will not support her. Like anupama till anuj did not give her job she was helpless to stay in vanraj house and bear with his tantrums after divorce. Can you imagine if anuj was not there, anupama could be doing cook job in a school for 5k or teaching dance all fe for 20k a month(per student 1000 rs so 20 students).Could she ever be economically free never because she took on so many loans of shahs on her head all life she would be paying loans if anuj never came in her life. Shes one lucky lady even big rich highly educated woman in india do not get a man like anuj. Vanraj would still be dominating anupama if not for anuj in her life. Neither anupama would progress much in life if not for anuj help as she has no interest to learn anything new.

Originally posted by: Rudhita18

Di, Your example is good but it has no correlation with what we are talking about here, , I may have sounded rude and I am sorry for that ......But ek murder hai and dusra ek emotional abuse .....I mean dono ka comparison kahi se nhi Banta right...

Aapne sahi kaha we can't prove it in the court but chalo phir bhi Maan lete hai ki aapne kisi tarah prove kr bhi diya than also kya uss convict ko "rape convict" ke jaisa treat Krna kahi se bhi justified nhi hai .....Ek ladki ke nazariye se dekhoge to sahi hi lagega pr ek neutral way me dekho to samajh aayega ....

Maan lo ek convict "A" hai jisne aise hi dhoka diya ek victim A ko and ek convict B hai jisne "rape" kiya hai victim B ka .......Kya jo physical pain and mental trauma se Victim B gujar rahi thi aur gujar rahi hai , kya victim A ko bhi utna hi physical pain kabhi hua hoga ??, Kya kabhi uska "emotional suffering" kabhi victim B ke ke "mental trauma " ke barabar ho sakta hai?? ....NO na kabhi tha ,na hai ,na kabhi ho skta hai ...... To kya law ke dwara dono ko same pedastal pe rakhna sahi hai, NOT AT ALL

Now aap batao convict A ne kya utna hi cruel , brutal ,henious crime commit kiya hai jitna ki convict B ne kiya hoga , kya usne aapni victim utna hi physical and mental pain diya hoga jitna ki convict B ne diya hai ??....Nhi right, than dono ki punishment same kaise ?? Jb dono ki cruelty same nhi thi to dono ko punish krte vakt LAW same way me cruel kaise ho skti hai......kya ye Convict A ke against injustice nhi hoga ?( See main kisi criminal ko defend nhi kr rhi main sirf injustice ki baat kr rhi hu ,But when we are talking about justice hame sabka paksh dekhna hota hai , Crime crime hota hai lekin iska mtlb ye to nhi ki kisi chor ko phasi ki saza de doge , kyuki uska crime itna gruesome tha hi nhi ki use phasi di jaye) .....

Di , my point is that ki kisi convict ki punishment iss baat pe nirdharit hoti hai ki uska crime kitna brutal, henious tha .....jb dono ke case ke brutality me Jamin aasmaan ka antaar hai to dono ki treatment aur punishment me vahi difference kyu na ho ........

Didi, laws me flaws hote hai .....Ab 50 saal pehle jo law tha vahi aaj bhi follow Kiya jaaye ye sahi hai kya ....... society badalti hai , log badalte hai , logo ki soch badalti hai uske saath saath laws me bhi amendments hone chahiye Varna law kabhi bhi aapna prime motive serve kr hi nhi paayega ......Aadhi bheed ke liye JUSTICE sirf ek "Formality" , aur Aadhi bheed ke liye "jyadti" bn ke reh jaayegi .......

Di , agar aapko kahi bhi aisa laga ho ki maine aapse badtameezi se baat ki hai than I am SORRY 😔, Aap sb dono crimes ko ek jaisa bata rhe the , mujhe ye baat acchi nhi lag rhi thi ,agar jyada bol gayi to again I am sorry🥲

Chori 10 Rs ki ho ya 1 crore ki, hoti toh chori hi hai. Same logic. Let's not demean women by ignoring the trauma of women just because they did not have physical injuries and how much force did the offender used. Pain is not comparable. Just an example, please don't take personally. Kal ko aapke kisi loved one ke sath kuchh bura ho jaye and you are upset because of it, mai aake bolu yeh toh kuchh bhi nahi mere saath aur bohot bura hua hai, so you should stop feeling bad? Nahi na, your feelings are independent of mine. Similarly, hum 2 victims ke trauma ko kyu compare kare?

Originally posted by: Shri_12

Chori 10 Rs ki ho ya 1 crore ki, hoti toh chori hi hai. Same logic. Let's not demean women by ignoring the trauma of women just because they did not have physical injuries and how much force did the offender used. Pain is not comparable. Just an example, please don't take personally. Kal ko aapke kisi loved one ke sath kuchh bura ho jaye and you are upset because of it, mai aake bolu yeh toh kuchh bhi nahi mere saath aur bohot bura hua hai, so you should stop feeling bad? Nahi na, your feelings are independent of mine. Similarly, hum 2 victims ke trauma ko kyu compare kare?

True what you said

Now can we say Malvika we have to have more sympathy because she was hit and raped by hubby for a year till anuj rescued her

But not anupama because she was only raped by manipulation not hit by vanraj

So why not name serial malvika why anupama? because Malvika requires more sympathy

But even anupama trauma is trauma. Just because vanraj never hit her in belt of slapped her vanraj ko hero banna de kya

Anupam aisstupid enough to make vanraj as hero but audience is not

Yes Malvika was ht in belt and took more physical and mental pain through hitting and forcefully raped at nights by hubby against her wish

But that does not reduce anupama pain

Now dimpy is gang raped so can we say Malvika was only raped by her hubby but dimpy by many unknow people so dimpy pain is more than malvika? Not really