Episode Spoiler - 12 July 2021 - Page 21

Originally posted by: MistyDawn

Trust me when I say this, that this time I understand Raghav's position more than I ever have.. Even if he had gotten the closure wrt his past, though Im not sure how he can ever hope to get that.. Some damages are irreversible and there's nothing much one can do about it.. Nana and Arjun are not gonna come back and he has to live with the pain of their loss forvever.. Point is anyone in his position would've probably have the same intentions, even if the approach was different Its not a theft or forgery charge, its a murder charge which can ruin Keerthi's life and as a brother especially one who just got back his family, its extremely hard to do what Pallavi is expecting of him. I feel equally bad for Pallavi.Its a very unfortunate situation they are in right now. Makes me wonder if things could've been different, had Raghav not tried to hide things from her the beginning, and had tried to explain things logically.. explain to her that it is extremely unfortunate but what has happened has happened..punishing Keerthi is not going to get Mandhar back..Keerthi on her part could've sincerely apologised..maybe Pallavi would've considered..she has surprised us in the past and eventhough its a very different matter.. there was still a chance that she would've weighed her options and tried to figure out a middle way along with all concerning parties. But none of that happened.. Instead he lied to her, misled her, tried to put every road block in her way..Keerthi humiliated her and continues to do which is why as an audience I feel somewhat disappointed with Raghav eventhough I understand his position..

THIS.

Everything could have been easier had he told her what was going on. Had Kirti been truly apologetic. Had he actually at the very least scolded Kirti and made her apologize. But here he's just coming across manipulative, and tbh, stupid. And the stupid bothers me more. He's offering himself up as a compromise, and from his perspective, it's a big deal, that he's willing to do that for her. But for such a sharp minded guy, how does he think this will help? Uska baar baar bolna, ki punish me instead, it's manipulative, because she won't. So it's almost like emotionally blackmailing her into letting it go.

Originally posted by: MistyDawn

I agree with you..and I have very similar thoughts on the whole matter..They both understand each others position so well that they are not even angry or upset with one another.. just hurt and sad that they have to stand against each other in this battle of morality/truth versus duties and obligation towards one's family. It is just unfortunate that both Raghav and Pallavi fight battles, and in most cases against each other, for people who don't deserve their kindness and loyalty. At the end of this track, obviously Keerthi is not going to jail, one way or the other, but I am hoping to see Pallavi stand vindicated and some level of justice being served either in the form of Keerthi whole heartedly and genuinely apologising for her part in all this or Raghav cutting ties with her if she refuses to change her attitude.

@bold- literally, bas yeh chahiye. Bohot seh liya usne.

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

THIS.

Everything could have been easier had he told her what was going on. Had Kirti been truly apologetic. Had he actually at the very least scolded Kirti and made her apologize. But here he's just coming across manipulative, and tbh, stupid. And the stupid bothers me more. He's offering himself up as a compromise, and from his perspective, it's a big deal, that he's willing to do that for her. But for such a sharp minded guy, how does he think this will help? Uska baar baar bolna, ki punish me instead, it's manipulative, because she won't. So it's almost like emotionally blackmailing her into letting it go.

But that is the issue right - Raghav doesn't know Keerti was ready to pin the blame on innocent Farhad - Raghav only knows that unintentionally Keerti caused the accident and instead of helping ran away. Many good people choose to do that - the part where Keerti loses the stand is when she chooses to deny the accident happening and then chooses to frame Farhad to take the fall for her. But Raghav doesn't know this.

I feel in the end Raghav is going to say - you would be my sister but I really find it hard to forgive you and it is going to take time. And Jaya too says that then Pallavi has some closure - this provided that Sunny was driving and Keerti was hiding his crime. I think that is the route the creatives will take to end this stalemate.

Originally posted by: PSharada

But that is the issue right - Raghav doesn't know Keerti was ready to pin the blame on innocent Farhad - Raghav only knows that unintentionally Keerti caused the accident and instead of helping ran away. Many good people choose to do that - the part where Keerti loses the stand is when she chooses to deny the accident happening and then chooses to frame Farhad to take the fall for her. But Raghav doesn't know this.

I feel in the end Raghav is going to say - you would be my sister but I really find it hard to forgive you and it is going to take time. And Jaya too says that then Pallavi has some closure - this provided that Sunny was driving and Keerti was hiding his crime. I think that is the route the creatives will take to end this stalemate.

Yes, he doesn't, which is why I can't blame him for he's doing. Plus, so many missing pieces- the fact that Amma thinks Kirti was in Guntur, Kirti saying she can't drive, it just doesn't add up. Abhi toh Raghav's also trying to piece it together.

I also think that ultimately Sunny was driving and Kirti was just complicit- that way, Kirti's still guilty of leaving a man to die but it softens her crime just enough that closure is possible without sending her to jail. I do like what you suggest in bold- I'd hate to see Kirti absolved of all guilt just because she wasn't driving. She didn't even have the decency to call an ambulance anonymously. She's an adult, and I'd like to see some consequences of her actions...unless, of course, she had been non consensually drugged that night as well (we all know Sunny is capable), in which case, yeah, not her fault and she'd not have been in the state of mind to act.

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

Yeah, that's what it boils down to I guess- I sympathize with both. I understand both. But right now, I'm not able to support Raghav the way I'm able to support Pallavi, because there's a clear right and wrong here. He knows it, she knows it, Jaya knows it. But he's choosing to prioritize family above right and wrong, which is fine, it's his call. He's in an impossible situation, and made an impossibly difficult decision- but choices have consequences, and he'll have earned the fall out from this, whatever it ends up being.

He once said, in reference of Pallavi, emotions mein aa ke usko galat ka saath nahi dene doonga. Well, many of us said back then that had he been in the same boat, he'd have done the same thing. And that's what he's doing. Pallavi was wrong then, he is wrong now. Someone, probably Amma, needs to tell him something to the same effect.

I don't know how this arc is going to conclude, but I do hope we get some meaningful character development for Raghav soon, else this plotline will be kind of wasted IMO.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the abortion thing. I completely get what you're saying, and I respect your opinion there, but it's a little too 'apples to oranges' for me to wrap my head around and be okay with, but I did get the message of the dialogue, so I'll focus on that and ignore the aspects of the execution that made me uncomfortable.

@bold- well, I don't think she has any kind of misconceptions on the shady dealings he's a part of, she knows from the night with Ved and the fact that Nikhil was caught up in all this. I am sure she's okay with that. And she's not the only one with a decision here, he also has to decide- is he going to be a don at home as well, in his marriage, to his wife? I believe it's fair for her to expect that side of him to not apply to her.

@bold, on the contrary, we are saying the same thing. Raghav referred to the abortion thing to compare how both of them would do anything to their family but that's the whole point here, that it's beyond family loyalties. A grave crime was committed against Mandaar. So here's the question: even if you love your family to pieces, where do you draw the line? What crime is big/bad enough that you can no longer condone your loved one's actions and let them go unpunished, no matter how painful?

In this perhaps Pallavi and Raghav have a different approach, although I'm not sure if Pallavi were in Raghav's place would she take the blame to save her sibling? Who knows? I just hope they will close the loop on this statement of Raghav's so that he realizes that the motivations were similar but the circumstances and outcomes weren't at all similar.

Anyway, what Amma advises Raghav to do is in a way the counter to his statement about there being no right or wrong even when law and order/justice/truth is concerned, i.e. you do have to draw the line somewhere, either because it's the morally correct option or because you sometimes need to let people fall and make mistakes the hard way so that they learn (or both). Amma was telling Pallavi to let Keerti learn the hard way about Sunny too, so I'm guessing she's seeing Keerti go down a wrong path in repeatedly and now feels Keerti needs a major wake up call about responsibility and accountability, which is a prerequisite for remorse. Keerti's gone off her rocker so at this point I don't expect her to feel guilty or ashamed about what she did, never mind apologize, but by enabling her to get away this time with no repercussions the Raos will embolden her to do worse things in future. She will always feel that Raghav has her back regardless of her actions so that's a pattern that needs to be broken, especially if she truly believes what she says to Pallavi. I'm guessing this is Amma's thought process.

So yes, while the same love for family drove Pallavi to try to protect Mansi/Amruta's image, Raghav's in an extremely gray area. Even if he doesn't think about closure for the Ds and is focusing only on Keerti's happiness, there too he needs to draw a line so that she learns the hard way like he learned over the years that some types of damage are irreversible and irreparable. You can only move forward for them but have to do it the right way, though repentance and concrete actions to make up for your mistakes or sins.

I hope this makes sense.

Sorry it's just one of those days where I'm failing to communicate effectively. I should take a break for a few days. 😔

Originally posted by: PSharada

But that is the issue right - Raghav doesn't know Keerti was ready to pin the blame on innocent Farhad - Raghav only knows that unintentionally Keerti caused the accident and instead of helping ran away. Many good people choose to do that - the part where Keerti loses the stand is when she chooses to deny the accident happening and then chooses to frame Farhad to take the fall for her. But Raghav doesn't know this.

I feel in the end Raghav is going to say - you would be my sister but I really find it hard to forgive you and it is going to take time. And Jaya too says that then Pallavi has some closure - this provided that Sunny was driving and Keerti was hiding his crime. I think that is the route the creatives will take to end this stalemate.

Yes, none of the characters is seeing the 360 like we are but I hope Raghav will learn about it soon and then realize he's spoiling his sister's life further by allowing her to get away with all this without her feeling remorse or the need to make it up to Pallavi.

I still don't like Sunny being the culprit. The story would be so much better if Keerti were it and if the Raos had to deal with it, but whatever. They want to move forward with the story so it has to end.

I like your suggestion of Raghav withdrawing and remaining distant so that maybe for once Keerti stops being so horrible to him. I always wanted her to earn his trust and forgiveness, even before this accident track because she's treated him badly but now I don't know if Raghav can bring himself to cut ties or be cold with her. Let's see.

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

No worries, I don't think it's an issue with your communication, I got what you were saying. Sometimes when tow people are locked in a disagreement, it's easier to interpret as someone outside the conversation, so I took the liberty to jump in.

The point on an audience's 360 perspective is spot on, it's something I'm constantly reminding myself and others of, and I think I've been harping about it since I started being active on this forum. Which is why Raghav's feelings are evident to us, but it's also fair to call him on really not giving Pallavi the security, especially with the way he's acting these days. He can be expressive when he needs to be, but I guess Pallavi has made him secure enough that he no longer feels the need to. The lack of expressiveness has explicitly started after the music evening, which solidified her commitment to make the marriage work.

Pallavi's made great progress in communicating, and I hope it stays, but I would understand if she recedes back into her shell too, with the rather insensitive response she's getting from him. The response to her little outburst today really did rub me the wrong way. I'll feel a bit cheated if we never get a closed loop on this. If they can't learn to talk and listen, they may as well cut their losses and call it quits.

Thanks for stepping in. Appreciate it.

Yes he needs to work on communicating with her. I remember how upset he was when he blurted out his expectation that she tell him what was going on between Keerti and Sunny because she was his wife. I want him to remember those words and keep them in mind going forward. This has to be two-way communication not one-sided. Same thing Pallavi told him in the maar daalo mujhe Raghav scene, that if he'd stopped for a couple of minutes and talked things out with her, he would have had his answers. He has been so used to running the show at home and in his business as the head of the empire that this whole sharing and caring is new to him. He will have to learn but something tells me it won't happen so soon. It will happen when Mandaar is back, when he will want to have those meaningful conversations with her that we always say they both need, but it might be tougher then.

Originally posted by: inlieu

@bold, on the contrary, we are saying the same thing. Raghav referred to the abortion thing to compare how both of them would do anything to their family but that's the whole point here, that it's beyond family loyalties. A grave crime was committed against Mandaar. So here's the question: even if you love your family to pieces, where do you draw the line? What crime is big/bad enough that you can no longer condone your loved one's actions and let them go unpunished, no matter how painful?

In this perhaps Pallavi and Raghav have a different approach, although I'm not sure if Pallavi were in Raghav's place would she take the blame to save her sibling? Who knows? I just hope they will close the loop on this statement of Raghav's so that he realizes that the motivations were similar but the circumstances and outcomes weren't at all similar.

Anyway, what Amma advises Raghav to do is in a way the counter to his statement about there being no right or wrong even when law and order/justice/truth is concerned, i.e. you do have to draw the line somewhere, either because it's the morally correct option or because you sometimes need to let people fall and make mistakes the hard way so that they learn (or both). Amma was telling Pallavi to let Keerti learn the hard way about Sunny too, so I'm guessing she's seeing Keerti go down a wrong path in repeatedly and now feels Keerti needs a major wake up call about responsibility and accountability, which is a prerequisite for remorse. Keerti's gone off her rocker so at this point I don't expect her to feel guilty or ashamed about what she did, never mind apologize, but by enabling her to get away this time with no repercussions the Raos will embolden her to do worse things in future. She will always feel that Raghav has her back regardless of her actions so that's a pattern that needs to be broken, especially if she truly believes what she says to Pallavi. I'm guessing this is Amma's thought process.

So yes, while the same love for family drove Pallavi to try to protect Mansi/Amruta's image, Raghav's in an extremely gray area. Even if he doesn't think about closure for the Ds and is focusing only on Keerti's happiness, there too he needs to draw a line so that she learns the hard way like he learned over the years that some types of damage are irreversible and irreparable. You can only move forward for them but have to do it the right way, though repentance and concrete actions to make up for your mistakes or sins.

I hope this makes sense.

Sorry it's just one of those days where I'm failing to communicate effectively. I should take a break for a few days. 😔

Aww, no, you're communicating just fine 🤗. I get what you're saying, and I also get why these episodes have been difficult to really discuss because there is way too much complexity at play.

@bold- Yes, when you put it like that, then we are saying the same thing. I found his comparison inappropriate and frankly, illogical. And it also struck a nerve for me simply because how taboo a topic abortion is, and I didn't appreciate the comparison being thrown about.

Perhaps a better comparison for me would be Pallavi signing her life away for Nikhil's sake- though it was Raghav pulling the strings to make the situation be as such, Nikhil still was guilty, albeit the crime was victimless. She did shield him from the consequences of his actions. And the whole, where do you draw the line part of it would have rung truer for me then too- the severity differential still stands. While both Nikhil and Kirti stood guilty in the eyes of the law, Nikhil hadn't wronged anyone or destroyed any lives, while Kirti had. It's a more fair comparison IMO which avoids likening abortion to a 'crime', which is where I guess I'm tripping up every time I think of the conversation.

Kirti needs a serious wakeup call- I'm guessing it'll come via the realization that Sunny is willing to throw her under the bus just as easily as she's willing to throw Farhad. Either way, driving or not that night, as an adult woman who made her own decisions, I'd like to see her face some consequence of her action, whether it be through the legal system, or the complex emotional dynamics she navigates at home.

Jaya benefits from the clarity that comes when your mind is not clouded by the fear of losing someone, the way Raghav's constantly is. She's secure in her relationship with Kirti, she can see that Kirti needs to fall. Raghav is not at a place where he can realize that yet.

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

Aww, no, you're communicating just fine 🤗. I get what you're saying, and I also get why these episodes have been difficult to really discuss because there is way too much complexity at play.

@bold- Yes, when you put it like that, then we are saying the same thing. I found his comparison inappropriate and frankly, illogical. And it also struck a nerve for me simply because how taboo a topic abortion is, and I didn't appreciate the comparison being thrown about.

Perhaps a better comparison for me would be Pallavi signing her life away for Nikhil's sake- though it was Raghav pulling the strings to make the situation be as such, Nikhil still was guilty, albeit the crime was victimless. She did shield him from the consequences of his actions. And the whole, where do you draw the line part of it would have rung truer for me then too- the severity differential still stands. While both Nikhil and Kirti stood guilty in the eyes of the law, Nikhil hadn't wronged anyone or destroyed any lives, while Kirti had. It's a more fair comparison IMO which avoids likening abortion to a 'crime', which is where I guess I'm tripping up every time I think of the conversation.

Kirti needs a serious wakeup call- I'm guessing it'll come via the realization that Sunny is willing to throw her under the bus just as easily as she's willing to throw Farhad. Either way, driving or not that night, as an adult woman who made her own decisions, I'd like to see her face some consequence of her action, whether it be through the legal system, or the complex emotional dynamics she navigates at home.

Jaya benefits from the clarity that comes when your mind is not clouded by the fear of losing someone, the way Raghav's constantly is. She's secure in her relationship with Kirti, she can see that Kirti needs to fall. Raghav is not at a place where he can realize that yet.

Yes, I thought about the Nikhil example too and I agree that it isn't as severe as this but yeah, let's see. Based on Shivangi's post I am guessing Pallavi is going to do something very wrong at one point which may be as serious as this and then the roles will be reversed.

I think the abortion itself wasn't what Raghav cared about, rather it was her actions to save the reputation of her 'sister' that he was drawing parallels with but I know what you mean. I personally thing that entire abortion fiasco was distasteful in the way various characters handled it and they could have created the same conflict with another topic. Amruta did point out that it was her body, her choice but because everyone was angry with her, this comment wasn't focused on. Ugh.. Anyway, let's see where this goes.

I am still feeling terrible for Jaya... Can't be easy being in her position. No matter how principled her decisions and actions will be, it's painful watching your kids in this state. @bold yes, and I think this is why she's reassuring Raghav by asking him to help Pallavi. Will he listen to her? I guess we'll find out shortly.

Originally posted by: inlieu

I agree, and who says happy ending means Raghav and Pallavi end up together. She might actually be happier with Mandaar, so that's her happy ending, while Raghav might be better off letting her go if she's unable to accept him.