Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 60

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Could you add a topic line to video titles?

I have started doing that in later videos

Thankyou for the citation. I really hope this is not true and an interpolation. Kunti's words could still be justified since she was in grief(although herself being the victim of such an abuse she should have understood better), but that makes Pandu a complete villian, like forcing onto her repeatedly.

Again I don't understand why Madri couldn't have raised the trio like her own children. It seems she was still midway when she called Kunti

Seriously I think I should add this part into the show where they try to justify Madri's Sati by blaming her to be feeling remorseful

Actually @FP

CE elaborates this ion a later section (Sambhava Parva, Chapter 116):

On seeing this, his heart turned to thoughts of love. Like a god, he was wandering aroundhappily. Madri followed him, clad in a beautiful and semi-transparent garment. On seeing heryouth through that garment, desire stirred in him, like a dense forest fire. The king stared atthe one with eyes like that of a blue lotus, like his own. He could not control his desire anddesire overpowered him. In that private place, the king forcibly seized her. The queenstruggled and resisted, to the best of her strength. But his heart was taken over by desire. Hedid not remember the curse. Following the dharma of intercourse, he forcibly entered Madri.Under the control of love, the descendant of the Kuru lineage acted so as to end his own life.He had no fear of the curse and penetrated his beloved forcibly. With desire in his heart, hisintelligence was deluded by destiny itself. Since he was prey to his senses, his consciousnesswas destroyed. Pandu, the descendant of the Kuru lineage and supremely devoted to dharma,succumbed to the law of time when united with his wife.‘Embracing the senseless king in her arms, the miserable Madri began to repeatedly and

‘Embracing the senseless king in her arms, the miserable Madri began to repeatedly andloudly lament. Kunti and the Pandavas, who were her sons and Madri’s sons, all came to theplace where the king was lying. O king! Madri called out to Kunti. “Come here alone andleave the children there.” Hearing these words, she asked the children to stay away. Comingcloser, she screamed, “I am dead.” On seeing both Pandu and Madri lying on the ground,Kunti’s body was overcome with grief and she lamented miserably. “This hero alwaysprotected me by controlling himself.310 You knew about the hermit’s curse. Why did youtransgress it? O Madri! You should have protected this king. Instead, why did you tempt himin this lonely place? Knowing and thinking about the curse, he was always miserable. Howdid he find pleasure when he was alone with you? O daughter of Bahlika! You are morefortunate than I. You have seen the lord of the earth’s face when he was happy.” Madrireplied, “It was I who got tempted. I tried to resist him repeatedly, but could not stay away. Itwas as if he was intent on making his destiny true.” Kunti said, “By law, I am the eldest of thetwo wives. The fruits of dharma accrue to me. O Madri! O beautiful one! Therefore, do not tryto restrain me from what must be done. I will accompany my husband who has gone to theland of the dead. Arise and let him go. Take care of the children.” Madri replied, “I am stillembracing my husband and have not let him escape. Nor has my desire yet been satisfied. Oelder one! Please give me permission. The best of the Bharata lineage came to me for the sakeof desire. With his desire unsatisfied, how can I let him go to Yama’s abode? O revered one! IfI live, it is certain that I will not be able to treat your children and mine in the same way andthat sin will touch me. O Kunti! But you will be able to bring up my children as your own.The king has gone to the land of the dead because of his desire for me. Therefore, my bodyshould be burnt with the king’s body. O revered one! Do what is pleasurable to me and burnthem together. Watch over the children and think kindly of me. I cannot think of anythingelse I need to say.” Having said this, the illustrious daughter of the king of Madra, wife bylaw to that bull among men, climbed onto the fire of that funeral pyre.

Nor am i willing to give benefit of doubt to Kunti.

the para prior to the assault scene -

For Madri’s sake, Pandu once again spoke to Kunti in private. But Pritha replied, “O king! Igave her the secret to be used once. But she obtained two and I was deceived. I am worriedthat she will get the better of me.308 This is the evil way of women. Fool that I was, I did notknow that by summoning two gods at one time, the fruits could also be doubled. Therefore,do not command me again. This is a boon that I ask from you.”

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Nor am i willing to give benefit of doubt to Kunti.

the para prior to the assault scene -

For Madri’s sake, Pandu once again spoke to Kunti in private. But Pritha replied, “O king! Igave her the secret to be used once. But she obtained two and I was deceived. I am worriedthat she will get the better of me.308 This is the evil way of women. Fool that I was, I did notknow that by summoning two gods at one time, the fruits could also be doubled. Therefore,do not command me again. This is a boon that I ask from you.”

To be honest, I always felt that Kunti was partial towards her biological sons, though it is said that Sahdev was her favourite but that seems more of an external cover to me. Madri's sons always remained in background to her sons, despite being a great Neetigya, Sahdev was hardly made comparable to even Vidur, Nakul is reduced to someone whose existence/non existence didn't matter at all. Even the epic only speaks of her sons and their greatness while concluding the twins in a phrase. Hell even Karna is praised (and by that I mean literally praised not just mentioned) for his qualities more than the twins

It's like her biological sons were the best wherever they were while others just happened to be at that spot.

Still when it comes to Madri Sati thing, I actually doubt that she was emotionally pushing her for Sati. I mean Madri would not have become better than Kunti even if she was alive. Neither was it necessary for at least one wife to get Sati that she wanted Madri to be the one. It seems more of a genuine outburst to me.

As far as presence of individual charachters in the epic is concerned, everyone was diminished to glorify Arjun because of Janmejaya.

Infact so much melodrama for subhadra's arrival in IP that most people wrongly presume Pandaavs were restricted by Draupadi to bring other wives and subhadra was the special one

Whereas there each of the 5 brothers had several wives and with exception of Hidimba Ulupi and chitranganda every one lived in IP.

So if Nakul and Sahadev dont get due credit in the epic it is not because of Kunti it is because oF Janmejaya.

Not just the twins Pandavas every other child gets sidelined for Abhimanyu, as if only he existed and mattered.

He did die in that chakravyuh.... But imagine if it was Iravan's grandson listening to the story, the one single line battle and death of Iravan would change into 10 pages of narrative filled with expceptional glory and bravery for him.

As far as Kunti is concerned, she was a good mother and a good mother in law.

But what Madri did was unfair in every way. She invited twins to upstage Kunti and have more sons than her. Kunti only reacted to Madri's treachery. The boon was earned by Kunti, she did a favour to Madri for which instead of having one child and showing gratitude for it, she abused that privildge.

As far as Pandu's death is concerned, it is extremely unconsistent in the epic.

If Pandu was cremated in forest with Madri doing sati then how was his remains taken to Hastinaour and cremation done there.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

As far as presence of individual charachters in the epic is concerned, everyone was diminished to glorify Arjun because of Janmejaya.

Infact so much melodrama for subhadra's arrival in IP that most people wrongly presume Pandaavs were restricted by Draupadi to bring other wives and subhadra was the special one

Whereas there each of the 5 brothers had several wives and with exception of Hidimba Ulupi and chitranganda every one lived in IP.

So if Nakul and Sahadev dont get due credit in the epic it is not because of Kunti it is because oF Janmejaya.

Not just the twins Pandavas every other child gets sidelined for Abhimanyu, as if only he existed and mattered.

He did die in that chakravyuh.... But imagine if it was Iravan's grandson listening to the story, the one single line battle and death of Iravan would change into 10 pages of narrative filled with expceptional glory and bravery for him.

As far as Kunti is concerned, she was a good mother and a good mother in law.

But what Madri did was unfair in every way. She invited twins to upstage Kunti and have more sons than her. Kunti only reacted to Madri's treachery. The boon was earned by Kunti, she did a favour to Madri for which instead of having one child and showing gratitude for it, she abused that privildge.

As far as Pandu's death is concerned, it is extremely unconsistent in the epic.

If Pandu was cremated in forest with Madri doing sati then how was his remains taken to Hastinaour and cremation done there.

Rationally speaking, this is not possible. Kunti being a woman of her times might have imagined it possible, but Madri didn't do anything wrong. She had twins because two of her eggs released at the same time, or because her one egg split into two (if twins were identical which I don't think they were), not because she had 2 men as fathers.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

As far as presence of individual charachters in the epic is concerned, everyone was diminished to glorify Arjun because of Janmejaya.

Infact so much melodrama for subhadra's arrival in IP that most people wrongly presume Pandaavs were restricted by Draupadi to bring other wives and subhadra was the special one

Whereas there each of the 5 brothers had several wives and with exception of Hidimba Ulupi and chitranganda every one lived in IP.

So if Nakul and Sahadev dont get due credit in the epic it is not because of Kunti it is because oF Janmejaya.

Not just the twins Pandavas every other child gets sidelined for Abhimanyu, as if only he existed and mattered.

He did die in that chakravyuh.... But imagine if it was Iravan's grandson listening to the story, the one single line battle and death of Iravan would change into 10 pages of narrative filled with expceptional glory and bravery for him.

As far as Kunti is concerned, she was a good mother and a good mother in law.

But what Madri did was unfair in every way. She invited twins to upstage Kunti and have more sons than her. Kunti only reacted to Madri's treachery. The boon was earned by Kunti, she did a favour to Madri for which instead of having one child and showing gratitude for it, she abused that privildge.

As far as Pandu's death is concerned, it is extremely unconsistent in the epic.

If Pandu was cremated in forest with Madri doing sati then how was his remains taken to Hastinaour and cremation done there.

@Bold if that was the case then what reason do we have Karna (who was declared a villian in the first chapter itself) having being praised for his virtues every here and there. Everywhere it's made to seem like he was the one backbone of Kaurav army, I mean think of the Gandharva attack for example he literally fled for his life, yet they dedicated pages to describe how courageously he fought the Gandharvas when everyone else was hiding. I don't even want to discuss day 16 and ge supposed Mahaanta. One might say that it's because Vaishampayan wanted to show that Arjun was better than the best warrior of Kaurav side or that he was highlighted since he was Arjun's chief rival. But we know neither of it is true. Neither did Arjun care much about Karna till DyutSabha nor Karna was such great a warrior. Kunti was a good mother and even a better mother in law for sure, but she probably wasn't a great step mother as people make her

@Italics I don't think Madri did any treachery to Kunti, she invited Ashwini Kumars for sure but inviting 2 men for a ummm triple Niyoga doesn't at all mean getting twins. It was simply her luck that she got two. But I agree Kunti could have got this confusion having seen two people approach Madri and her getting twins and would have correlated both the events. Madri was no where a villian but TV shows have made her one just like Satyavati

@Bold Italics. From what I understood is that Pandu had died in the forest with his cremation and Madri's Sati happened there. Later Kunti came to Hastinapur with the Pandavas and the ash and other remanants of Pandu Madri, the last rites (like doing this pravahit/burial etc.) could happen at Hastinapur

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Rationally speaking, this is not possible. Kunti being a woman of her times might have imagined it possible, but Madri didn't do anything wrong. She had twins because two of her eggs released at the same time, or because her one egg split into two (if twins were identical which I don't think they were), not because she had 2 men as fathers.

You and I in 21st century can rationalise twins. Kunti could not. Neither it is far fetched to presume that Madri called Ashwins to have twins

She saw Madri with 2 men, she saw two children.

Why did Madri invite specifically the twins though.... Why not Agni, Varuna or anybody else

In any case why should Kunti give it to Madri to have more children than her.

Kunti already had 3, she didnt want to do anymore niyoga, she had every right to ensure Madri had less children than her, if the means of getting those children was by a Mantra that Kunti earned by her efforts.

How does not letting Madri use the mantra to have equal or more children than her become wrong or reflect poorly on her.

How does she become bad person here, when Madri actually got two children because of her

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Bold Italics. From what I understood is that Pandu had died in the forest with his cremation and Madri's Sati happened there. Later Kunti came to Hastinapur with the Pandavas and the ash and other remanants of Pandu Madri, the last rites (like doing this pravahit/burial etc.) could happen at Hastinapur

No bodies of both of them are mentioned as brought to Hastinapur and taken on Arthi in a procession before being consigned to flames.

Vaisampayana continued, 'Dhritarashtra then said, 'O Vidura, celebrate the funeral ceremonies of that lion among kings viz., Pandu, and of Madri also, in right royal style. For the good of their souls, distribute cattle, cloths, gems and diverse kinds of wealth, every one receiving as much as he asketh for. Make arrangements also for Kunti's performing the last rites of Madri in such a style as pleaseth her. And let Madri's body be so carefully wrapped up that neither the Sun nor Vayu (god of wind) may behold it. Lament not for the sinless Pandu. He was a worthy king and hath left behind him five heroic sons equal unto the celestials themselves.'

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Then Vidura, O Bharata, saying, 'So be it,' in consultation with Bhishma, fixed upon a sacred spot for the funeral rites of Pandu. The family priests went out of the city without loss of time, carrying with them the blazing sacred fire fed with clarified butter and rendered fragrant therewith. Then friends, relatives, and adherents, wrapping it up in cloth, decked the body of the monarch with the flowers of the season and sprinkled various excellent perfumes over it. And they also decked the hearse itself with garlands and rich hangings. Then placing the covered body of the king with that of his queen on that excellent bier decked out so brightly, they caused it to be carried on human shoulders.