~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 53

Originally posted by: Chiillii

No Krishna didn't abuse the women. I meant option as in they had no where else to go. Jarasandh took away only his daughters. The other women and children had no guardian other than Ugrasen. They lived with him.

Same as Kuru women and orphaned children after the war.

Just like it was Duryodhan who was responsible for his family so was Kansa and after his death at the hands of his enemy they were at the mercy of his enemies.

Krishna was not responsible for what happened, but Vasudev was to an extent. He was the one who started the vicious campaign against Kansa through Narada.

A justified option for Kansa would have been to get Vasudev killed instead of going after Krishna. I wonder why he never did that.

Probably because as Devaki's son, Krishna might have been considered Ugrasena's legitimate heir in a way Vasudev would not have been. Some texts do say she was Ugrasena's daughter,. not Devaka's

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Bheem had a genuine grouse against Dhritrashtra and Gandhari. Not only did they never stop Duryodhan they actually encouraged and enjoyed his evil deeds. Dhritrashtra was as much a culprit as Duryodhan and no all their sons being killed doesnt cut them any slack

Also Dhritrashtra was emptying the treasury donating in his sons name. That would have not only caused financial distress for Pandavas but also created an undeserved sympathy wave for Kouravas

The wives and children were innocent, why would they be mistreated by Bhima. He was not evil.

Dhritrashtra specifically deserved every humiliation and insult that he got, inspite of his sons' death. Wasn't he enjoying Draupadi's and Pandavas humiliation in Dyut Sabha

I never said that Bheem was evil. The way he responded was great. Dhritrashtra did everything to deserve that punishment.

But to think of it if Gandhaari was in the court, it seems all the royal ladies would have been including the Kaurav wives

Gandhari was a mute spectator to most of the political games just like Subhadra or most of the queens back then. If her actions were considered sins, so were those of Kaurav wives (Vyas didn't tell us the name of even one of them)

Bheem might not have been an aggresser on them, but I doubt he would have ever respected them

P.S. I read in some folklore that Bhanumati committed Sati(I always felt she would have married Arjun as it was in Indonesian MB) could you throw some light on this? Aside were there any children left? I thought the entire Kaurav line was stopped there with probably Lakshmana the last survivor (if we could call that)

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Probably because as Devaki's son, Krishna might have been considered Ugrasena's legitimate heir in a way Vasudev would not have been. Some texts do say she was Ugrasena's daughter,. not Devaka's

Yes she was adopted by Devaka although biologically she was Ugrasen's daughter

This however raises some confusion to me Devaki wasn't definitely her name or one lady, Devaka's daughters were called Devaki, so considering 6 daughters, were all six Ugrasen's daughters or only one of them? Why would he adopt when he already had 5 daughters, also can we be sure that the daughter who bore Krishna was the daughter of Ugrasen?

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Islam came with Mohammad who came several centuries later. Who makes these claims?😕

Quora pe it's there, wait sharing the link.

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-descendants-of-Krishna-today/answer/Ram-Kadchha?ch=10&share=d057188b&srid=xzCH

It's based on some Gujarati book, no clue about anything

Aside a familycould run for 2000 years with record maintained.

My fathers family tree till 57AD is available

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Has to be. Or maybe they were descendants or titles. Like Takshak cannot be a contemporary of both Pandavas and Janmejaya.

Takshak were definitely a clan and not one individual,.

Takshshila university was developed by them

Maybe the Vanar mentioned in from same community of Vanars just as Hanuman ji was

Thanks

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Quora pe it's there, wait sharing the link.

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-descendants-of-Krishna-today/answer/Ram-Kadchha?ch=10&share=d057188b&srid=xzCH

It's based on some Gujarati book, no clue about anything

Aside a familycould run for 2000 years with record maintained.

My fathers family tree till 57AD is available

My father claims the same😆 around that same time frame. There are some what you call leaf manuscripts which I can't read so can't confirm.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I never said that Bheem was evil. The way he responded was great. Dhritrashtra did everything to deserve that punishment.

But to think of it if Gandhaari was in the court, it seems all the royal ladies would have been including the Kaurav wives

Gandhari was a mute spectator to most of the political games just like Subhadra or most of the queens back then. If her actions were considered sins, so were those of Kaurav wives (Vyas didn't tell us the name of even one of them)

Bheem might not have been an aggresser on them, but I doubt he would have ever respected them

P.S. I read in some folklore that Bhanumati committed Sati(I always felt she would have married Arjun as it was in Indonesian MB) could you throw some light on this? Aside were there any children left? I thought the entire Kaurav line was stopped there with probably Lakshmana the last survivor (if we could call that)

Gandhari was not a mute spectator.

1. She had enough power to advise the king to stop the dice hall shenanigans when it appeared things were going against them. The presence of other Kaurava ladies is not mentioned in scene. It also says Panchali first ran to the ladies' apartments when Dusshasana attempted to drag her. Which, I assume, means the other ladies were in the apartments, not the court. The other point is that if junior Kaurava women were present in court, Kunti and Subhadra would have been, as well. Subhadra might have been mute (I don't believe so. Still... a possibility), but I doubt Kunti would've stayed mum.

My conclusion is that Gandhari was present (stated in text), had the power to stop it (also stated in text), and didn't stop it.

Other Kaurava ladies weren't around.

2. Krishna bluntly accused Gandhari of promoting all Kaurava misdeeds.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

I never said that Bheem was evil. The way he responded was great. Dhritrashtra did everything to deserve that punishment.

But to think of it if Gandhaari was in the court, it seems all the royal ladies would have been including the Kaurav wives

Gandhari was a mute spectator to most of the political games just like Subhadra or most of the queens back then. If her actions were considered sins, so were those of Kaurav wives (Vyas didn't tell us the name of even one of them)

Bheem might not have been an aggresser on them, but I doubt he would have ever respected them

P.S. I read in some folklore that Bhanumati committed Sati(I always felt she would have married Arjun as it was in Indonesian MB) could you throw some light on this? Aside were there any children left? I thought the entire Kaurav line was stopped there with probably Lakshmana the last survivor (if we could call that)

Gandhari was the mother. There is a difference between mother and wife.

Mother had a lot of power over son. Wife had absolutely none.

Even if Duryodhan would never listen to her advice all she had to do was cover Draupadi with her own shawl.

In that era no son would dare insult mother or mother's shawl.

She had the power to stop Drau from being humiliated and as a woman she should have.

When she didn't she became as much a culprit as Bhishma Drona and others.

A lot of women committed suicide by drowning at the advice of Vyasa. These were most likely widows who had passed childbearing age and were left with no sons either. Women in child bearing age would have been married to survivors. The ones who had sons, would live on to raise them.

That was how it was.

Panchali said no matter what happened, she wanted to live😆. Not easy to emotionally pressure her.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Panchali said no matter what happened, she wanted to live😆. Not easy to emotionally pressure her.

The one true queen. My fave MB character