~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 39

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Don't talk about age ? There is no age description of anyone .

Arjun was younger than krishna by six months both r born same yr.

Thou radha is not mentioned in text but radha is assumed to be elder to krishna by 10 yrs .

Shiv Parvati daughter ashok sundari was elder than her husband nahusha.

radha is supposed to be elder by 10 years? i never knew that

is this a common thing which everyone worshiping radha krishna knows.

well it dosent matter if subhadra is 6 months older to arjun but will a girl in that age still remain unmarried till her early 20s? that is the question.

Originally posted by: naq5

radha is supposed to be elder by 10 years? i never knew that

is this a common thing which everyone worshiping radha krishna knows.

well it dosent matter if subhadra is 6 months older to arjun but will a girl in that age still remain unmarried till her early 20s? that is the question.

Ye 2 kuch bhi nhi hai , ek folktale balram ki wife revati ki bhi hai

She was elder than balram coz she was from different yug not from dwapar yug , I guess it mentioned in Vishnu & bhagwat puran

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

I told u d reason behind this belief, why they consider subhadra ekamansa one .

I m not saying this is only true , sorry if I sound somewhere like this.

But it's true no where Subhadra's birth is told in detail , subhadra is minor character of MB

we assumed her to be very young coz krishna mentioned about swayamber which was not planned only . Krishna never told about her age ,

If u noticed arjun said 2 krishna tell me d way how I can get her as wife , I m ready 2 do anything 2 get her , after that krishna suggested abduction before that he said 2 arjun about talking 2 vasudev about arjun Subhadra's marriage. He can easily do that earlier also. Ha we can say maybe Subhadra had someone in her mind but uski bhi mentioned Kahi nhi hai , is just assumption.

Who knows he said this make arjun more desperate ?

Swayamber was not planned , Balram dint promised Subhadra 2 duryodhana , how easily he convinced all 4 d alliance.

Then why abduction ? Reason only known 2 krishna himself.

My reason why he suggested abduction coz he love adventure🤣🤣

This marriage help him to bind with arjun more

Kissi ki age ka pata aap tab laga sakte ho jab aap uske birth ka pata ho , there is no clearity of Subhadra's birth only said born after kans's death. Well after kans death yadav were living on edge of danger name jarasandh , who was knocking their door , they were constantly struggling finally relocated in dwarka .

Subhadra is said to be moon like beauty .

Ashram parva where sanjay give description of pandav queens excluding devika to drithrashtra & Gandhari .

( Don't ask 4 citations I don't have😭)

But is there any reason to believe they are the same excluding beliefs of Jagganath temple? I don't think there is one

Yes we believe Subhadra was young because she wasn't there till Krishna Balram were in Gokul, so she needs to be at least 11 years younger to Krishna and ofcourse since her Swayamwar wasn't arranged, most probably she was younger. But even if not, why did her marriage happen so late.

Was she a widow/Paritakyta? But then why was Arjun so interested in marrying her

I am not entirely denying this possibility but why was she adopted Vasudev Devaki/Rohini? She had a life with the people she stayed for first 11 years

Originally posted by: naq5

did people believe that time that adults could be born from fire

Two theories -

1 Kunti told people that Pandavas were sons of God and got acceptance of the society, If one believes that these were sons of God, it means people were religious and didn't go against Sages/Priest. Draupadi birth is not mentioned as a separate event, it is mentioned during a storytelling by a sage to Pandavas, so I am guessing the fire birth was a similar propaganda by Drupad.

2 Pandavas being sons of God and Draupadi coming out of fire is for us, it would have been added to support the religious nature of Mahabharata, when one discards religious nature and divinity of Mahabharata, there's no possibility of someone coming out of fire

I support the 2nd theory BECAUSE the fire birth is not described like shown on television, @Chilli explained how fire and Yagya was a hawan either for adoption or to get Dristadumya the power to kill Drona, a Brahman

Why do I believe this theory?

Panchal had lost to young Pandavas, Drupad was captured, don't you think it would have been very shameful for him to lose at hands of Pandavas? He was a King, apparently he was one of the 2 Kings that time who could be an emperor, I am told Hastinapur and Panchal were very strong kingdoms, Here Young, out of college people defeated an army and captured the king, after this the kingdom was divided in Half, So Drupad was living life from Drona's charity

Now follow this - 1 Kingdom lost to Young Pandavas

2 Kingdom divided in two parts

Now, do you really think Panchal was as strong after their kingdom was divided in half? Is it logical for a King to be captured, when the kingdom was the most powerful one, and not face humiliation?

What he does is come up with a theory that his son Dristadumya has the power to kill Drona and his daughter Draupadi will cause destruction of bad Kshatriyas

How else do you think people took him seriously? Marriage to Pandavas was a compulsion from Drupad because he was defeated by them -

Yajnasena always desired to give Krishna to Kiriti,

he never revealed this to anyone. O Janamejaya! O descendant of the Bharata lineage! Thinking of Kunti’s son, the Panchala got a very hard bow constructed, one that no one else would be able to bend. He had an

artificial machine4 set up above and onto this machine he fixed a golden target. Drupada said, “He who can string this bow and, after stringing, shoot the target above with these arrows, will obtain my daughter

King Pandu was a dear friend of King Drupada, who regarded him as his own self.He has all along desired that his daughter should be given to that Kourava as his daughter-in-law. O heroes of unblemished limbs! This desire was always in King Drupada’s heart, that the strong and long-armed Arjuna should marry his daughter according to dharma.

This was his desire, but he definitely didn't know that Pandavas are alive or they will participate in Swayamvar, You can read it yourself, Dristadumya went to Potter's hut and spied on Pandavas came home and told Drupad about them being Pandavas, They didn't know Pandavas were there, if he was in cplans with Vyasa, he would have done something to make sure Yudi wins Draupadi or Draupadi would have selected Yudi. Arjuna was a good archer, but I don't think in whole India, only he could win that Swayamvar, even if he did, do you think they would have anticipated it? Do you think someone would leave a plan as big as this up to the chance of not a single person succeeding?

The Swayamvar and Drupad's conversation with Dristadumya are enough evidence of his not being involved in this plan, one more point in this direction is polyandry was neither Drupad's idea nor he knew about it before Yudi said that all of them will marry Draupadi and Vyasa came there to support this.The fact that they had to convince him to marry Draupadi to 5 of them, tells you he wasn't part of this plan. The fact that they put this condition after Draupadi had spent a night in potter hut with Pandavas made it much more difficult for Drupad to refuse. Drupad was a king, he wasn't an idiot who would blindly follow Vyasa not thinking about his future.

Vyasa was involved with Pandavas, He sent them to Swayamvar and came there after Pandavas had won to put this condition in front if Drupad, The negotiation took place AFTER SWAYAMVAR not BEFORE SWAYAMVAR

As @Chilli said Vyasa got an opportunity and used it

Krishna's involvement -

Krishna didn't care about Pandavas when they were suffering, there's not a single mention of Krishna helping Pandavas before Swayamvar, It was during Swayamvar, he witnessed prowess of Arjuna and Bhima, He took Arjuna and Bhima to Jarasandh, He didn't need an army to kill him, he needed Bhima

BUT all this happened AFTER SWAYAMVAR not BEFORE SWAYAMVAR

One had to note by the time they went to kill Jarasandh with Bhima's help, Krishna was related to them by Subhadra's marriage to Arjuna, you see Draupadi's marriage to them didn't actually do anything for Krishna except that he witnessed their prowess in her Swayamvar, that's when he started bonding with them

This so just my opinion based on what I have read so far, I don't believe in plans

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Ye 2 kuch bhi nhi hai , ek folktale balram ki wife revati ki bhi hai

She was elder than balram coz she was from different yug not from dwapar yug , I guess it mentioned in Vishnu & bhagwat puran

That's a different story all together. It's based on theory of relativity/time lag principle something Which we got to know as late as the 19th century.

So basically Revti and her father visit Brahmlok because her father couldn't find a suitable groom for him in earth. They wait for a few minutes and then ask Brahmaji.

He replies that they would get the groom on earth itself, since the left earth in high speed to reach Brahmlok and stayed here for some time so for them the time is passing slowly while on earth the time has passed in a much faster rate n if they leave immidiately the time by which they reach earth it would be the end of Dwapar Yug where the person selected for Rewti i.e. Balram would be found

Hence they returned and definitely for married.

The age of Rewti wasn't more than Balram because for her only a few years had passed since her birth but for earth, Yugas had passed

Now I know this is a story and definitely not a possibility but how could they even involve in their story a principle so complex??

That makes me actually wonder did our ancestors know at least the basics of time dilatation principle

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

That's a different story all together. It's based on theory of relativity/time lag principle something Which we got to know as late as the 19th century.

So basically Revti and her father visit Brahmlok because her father couldn't find a suitable groom for him in earth. They wait for a few minutes and then ask Brahmaji.

He replies that they would get the groom on earth itself, since the left earth in high speed to reach Brahmlok and stayed here for some time so for them the time is passing slowly while on earth the time has passed in a much faster rate n if they leave immidiately the time by which they reach earth it would be the end of Dwapar Yug where the person selected for Rewti i.e. Balram would be found

Hence they returned and definitely for married.

The age of Rewti wasn't more than Balram because for her only a few years had passed since her birth but for earth, Yugas had passed

Now I know this is a story and definitely not a possibility but how could they even involve in their story a principle so complex??

That makes me actually wonder did our ancestors know at least the basics of time dilatation principle

Mujhe myth lagti hai coz it was said 27 chatur yugas were passed , revati was 2 tall from balram as he adjusted her height with his plough.

If we remove divinity then revati came from different time zone , which was not possible

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Mujhe myth lagti hai coz it was said 27 chatur yugas were passed , revati was 2 tall from balram as he adjusted her height with his plough.

Read my post, I myself it's not a possibility just a science fiction added to increase masala

But how could they come up with a science fiction of this sort without having even the basic idea of the related principle

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

But is there any reason to believe they are the same excluding beliefs of Jagganath temple? I don't think there is one

Yes we believe Subhadra was young because she wasn't there till Krishna Balram were in Gokul, so she needs to be at least 11 years younger to Krishna and ofcourse since her Swayamwar wasn't arranged, most probably she was younger. But even if not, why did her marriage happen so late.

Was she a widow/Paritakyta? But then why was Arjun so interested in marrying her

I am not entirely denying this possibility but why was she adopted Vasudev Devaki/Rohini? She had a life with the people she stayed for first 11 years.

Well ekamansa should had been returned to nand yasoda only . I don't know what happened to nand yasoda after Krishna left .

There was no point of her adoption when nand yasoda themselves alive

All I could make out Vasudev definitely had an ehsaan of nand yashoda on himself coz he gave shelter 2 rohini, balram & Krishna .

Vasudev & nand were friends I guess .

If nand yasoda died then maybe vasudev adopted her.

Well I myself don't believe on this story coz I don't consider them one

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Read my post, I myself it's not a possibility just a science fiction added to increase masala

But how could they come up with a science fiction of this sort without having even the basic idea of the related principle

Well I would like to hearmeroar & chiilii pov on this

I am not sure about Drupad thing but Pandavas god birth is definitely a notion/myth propogated by Kunti n not a later addition. Because there is no way people wouldn't have asked about the biological father.

Plus there are mentions of many people not accepting this. So yes they were always called god's children (later Kunti extrapolated that theory to incorporate Karna), few believed, few didn't but they couldn't go across the sages.

Even Alexander always called himself son of Zeus and that's how the Mecedonian writers called him back then. So in earlier days it was possible for kings to propogate their perspective or divine birth superiority stories

That wasn't possible for Drupad, because now adults were being born n not kids, while Niyog happened closed doors and couldn't have any witness, Yagya was a open and public event. Hence he couldn't make such claims at all