Mahabharat Retelecast Discussion Thread 5 - Page 10

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Deepika check the link on discussion we had on Dusshashan's book.

I am actually tempted to write one

dushasan book...would love to read it

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

If following his brother was Dharma for VIkarna, then why did speak against him in a royal gathering. In Fact here even Yuyutsu didn't speak a word in Draupadi's favour

Kumbhkaran didn't do that. He always tried to reason out with Ravana in closed chambers not in public

I think Vikarn didn't go against Draupadi's Vastraharan, he just agreed to the fact that Yudi didn't have right over Draupadi so he can't bet her. May be Yuyutsu never had the authority or courage to question the then King, in front of a whole royal gathering being a maid's son.

Originally posted by: Andy3456

Her captions on Mahabharat scenes are really good

pooja and shaheer both are deep when it comes to sharing thoughts

Originally posted by: Mages

dushasan book...would love to read it

Arre no there is no Dusshashan book, we were just discussing that since the overglorification of negative characters is going on, we might get one oh Dusshashan soon. I just gave the link to that discussion

I am tempted to write one on it now, featuring Dusshashan Devika love story.

Sushashan names himself Dusshashan, since he wanted his name to start with the same alphabet as his lady love

Originally posted by: Andy3456

I think Vikarn didn't go against Draupadi's Vastraharan, he just agreed to the fact that Yudi didn't have right over Draupadi so he can't bet her. May be Yuyutsu never had the authority or courage to question the then King, in front of a whole royal gathering being a maid's son.

@Boldb only that part was contentious, if that issue was resolved, not much was left, if she was a slave, Duryodhan had the right to do whatever he wanted including Vastraharan, and exactly there he spoke against his brothers claim

Vidur was a maid's son and was pretty vocal there(although definitely we can't compare Vidur n Yuyutsu)

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Arre no there is no Dusshashan book, we were just discussing that since the overglorification of negative characters is going on, we might get one oh Dusshashan soon. I just gave the link to that discussion

I am tempted to write one on it now, featuring Dusshashan Devika love story.

Sushashan names himself Dusshashan, since he wanted his name to start with the same alphabet as his lady love

OMG! this is hilarious and interesting🤣

how these kauravas even sleep peacefully after humiliating a women that too their SIL in that adharm sabha not forget their mother wives sister dushala is also a women when this thought arise my mind i feel disgusted🤮

Originally posted by: Mages

how these kauravas even sleep peacefully after humiliating a women that too their SIL in that adharm sabha not forget their mother wives sister dushala is also a women when this thought arise my mind i feel disgusted🤮

What about Yudhishtir?

Well did you read my Karna Bhanumati FF something on those lines

https://www.indiaforums.com/fanfiction/616

Please read and give your feedback

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

One think I wanted 2 ask yesterday u said karn still ordered dussashan 2 drag draupadi to slave chamber , who stopped him or draupadi freed herself.

I actually never heard about it.

A pratikami goes to Panchali to let her know what happened and asks her to come to dice hall.

Panchali refuses to go and sends a message to ask Yudhishtira who he lost first. There are 2 point to remember here - the legal point of what right Yudhishtira had over her after becoming a slave, and the philosophical one of what right Yudhishtira had after "losing himself" in an ethical way to call himself lord and master of all her surveyed.

Suyodhana sends the pratikami back a second time to tell Panchali to come to court and ask the question herself.

She again refuses, and says morality must prevail.

At this time, Yudhishtira sends a messenger to Panchali to ask her to come to court in once cloth, leaving her navel exposed🤢, and beg to the elders.

This time, Suyodhana sends Dusshasan as the pratikami said he was too afraid to go back to Panchali😆.

When Dusshasan arrives, Panchali tries to run to the women's quarters, but he catches her and tells her she will come to court even if she is naked because she will now "love the Kurus." Meaning sex slavery. This crucial section is always left out of shows because it paints Karna in a bad light later. By the time Panchali is dragged there, half her clothes are loosened already, her body partly exposed.

When Panchali gets to court, Bheeshma proclaims "dharma is subtle" even after seeing Panchali half-naked and blood-stained. ie, whether Yudhiushtira had a moral and/or legal right to stake anyone after he "lost himself dharmically" cannot be easily determined.

This is when Panchali says the following - "the descendants of the Bharata lineage have lost their dharma and their knowledge of the ways of kshatriyas. All the Kurus in this sabha have witnessed the transgression of thedharma of the Kurus. There is certainly no longer substance in Drona, Bhishma and in this great-souled one.205 The foremost among the elders of the Kuru lineage have chosen to ignore this terrible transgression of dharma by the king.”

THIS ^ part should make it clear she was making a philosophical argument about duties of the king and not simply a legal argument about a man staking his wife as is commonly shown in shows. She makes this same argument multiple times later to Yudhishtira, to Virat, and to Krishna.

Back and forth arguments ensues in dice hall with Vidura and Vikarna supporting Panchali, and Karna opposing. Bheeshma also opposes (once again while his granddaughter-in-law is half-naked and blood-stained in a room full of men who already stated they wanted her for a sex slave), but he keeps saying ask Yudhishtira if you want. This is when Bheema threatens to burn Yudhishtira's hands, and Arjuna stops it.

Angered by Vikarna's opposition, Karna orders Dusshasan to strip Panchali naked. Northern text says her own dharma saved her (not Krishna, not the women).

Bheeshma and Drona do not oppose this act. Only Vidura does at this point.

Karna orders Dusshasana to take Panchali to the slave quarters.

This is when Panchali switches to a purely legal point. Clearly no one in the Kuru court was willing to challenge the moral depravity of the rulers. No one understood the duties of privilege, except her and Vidura. Vikarna was only arguing the cruelty of enslaving her.

Bheeshma again says he doesn't know the answer! Remember, he has just seen her stripped naked. Kauravas are waiting to take her to slave quarters where she was expected to "love the Kurus."

"O fortunate one! The lineage into which you have been born and the one in which you are established as a daughter-in-law, never deviates from the path of dharma, regardless of the disaster that might befall. O Panchali! Since you look at dharma, even though you are suffering, it is conduct that you yourself follow. Drona and the other elders, knowledgeable in dharma, sit here with lowered heads, as if their bodies are hollow.222 It is my view that Yudhishthira is the supreme authority on the question."s

Ie, Bheeshma is saying, 1) yes, it is dharma even if you're suffering 2) as for your legal point, ask Yudhishtira.

Even after seeing his wife sexually assaulted, Yudhishtira is silent. If he said a word, she'd have been freed.

Suyodhana then asks the Pandavas if anyone will agree with what Panchali said; that Yudhishtira had no right to stake her. Keep in mind at this point he didn't offer to free her if they agreed. Bheema says Yudhishtira had every right to do what he did.

Karna taunts her and asks her to choose one from the Kaurava clan to have sex with.

‘Karna said, “There are three who can own no property—a slave, a student and a woman. O fortunate one! You are the wife of a slave and have nothing of your own. You have no lord and are like the property of slaves. Enter226 and serve us. That is the task for you in this household. O Princess! All the sons of Dhritarashtra are now your masters and not the sons of Pritha. O beautiful one! Choose another one for your husband, one who will not make you a slave through gambling. Remember the eternal rule among slaves. Sexual acts with one’s masters are never censured. Nakula, Bhimasena, Yudhishthira, Sahadeva and Arjuna have been won over. O Yajnaseni! Enter as a slave. The ones who have been won over can no longer be your husbands. Valour and virility are of no use to Partha227 now. In the middle of the sabha, he has gambled away the daughter of Drupada, the king of Panchala.”’

Bheema says something in anger.

Suyodhana exposes his thigh for Panchali to sit own. "Smiling at Radheya and tormenting Bhima, heexposed his left thigh to Droupadi, who was looking at him."232

From prior episode of Pratipa and Ganga, we know right thigh is marked for children and left for wives/concubines because apparently, that's where the male plumbing goes when they wear their dhotis. Ie, Panchali was expected to give Suyodhana a lap dance.

Vidura gives another warning.

At this time, Suyodhana (probably thinking he has won) says if any of the Pandavas agree with Panchali that Yudhishtira had no right to stake her, she'd be a free woman. THIS is when he makes the offer.

Arjuna immediately stands up and says Yudhishtira was their master until he "lost himself," afterward, who knew?

Now, Suyodhana is bound his word in open court.

Then, jackals startd howling. Jackal is also a substitute for spy several times in MBh. I'm betting the king got word either Vyasa or Krishna (or both) was on his way to Kuru court. There is a part in dice hall scene which says Krishna ran on foot to get there. It's wrongly positioned, so we assume it as interpolation. I think it merely means he heard what was going on and was rushing there.

Then, Gandhari, who was clearly present for all of it and never uttered a word against the sexual assault, tells Dhritharashtra to let Panchali go.

The king frees her and gives her a boon. Panchali asks for Yudhishtira. The king gives her a second boon, and she asks for the 4 younger Pandavas. She refuses a 3rd boon, but king returns all the winnings, anyway.

Arjuna isn't given enough credit for his intelligence. He intervened at the right moment. Yes, it would've been better if he supported Panchali in her philosophical arguments as well as legal one irrespective of the disunity it would cause among the brothers, but not everyone is a Panchali. However, when he saw a chance to save her, he risked their family unity and spoke up.