Mahabharat of B. R. Chopra: Discussions/ DT note pg 119 - Page 25

Originally posted by: proteeti

I'm loving all the metaphors! Even the rains and storms were only showering their love onto Kanha! ❤️

I am waiting for that moment when they show Nitish for the first time!! That music (chorus voice) still gets to me. Its is episode 21 or closer to 22 i think. Not sure though.Him standing in the ashram under a tree with a calm expression on his face, waiting for Parashuram to come

Originally posted by: RainFire125

It might be that things are supposed to happen this way, but somewhere in all this Ekalavya and karna suffered really bad. Arjun was in the right path and that is bec he was strayed to walk in that path. Who was there for Karna or Ekalavya. It makes me think that what if they indeed given the chance proved to be superior than Arjun??

Ekalavya really did suffer way more than he needed to.

However, Karna did have his adoptive parents to seek refuge with. Drona did teach him most of the stuff. He was a classmate of the Princes in Drona's gurukul. Drona only refused him the Brahmastra&etc, which in any case he gave only to Arjun and Ashwatthama, which were prizes for being his son, and the most dedicated student respectively.

Karna never showed that dedication to his Guru that Arjuna did (Karna later showed that dedication to Parashurama, so he got those from him).

He did not know his identity right up to the eve of the War. Also, Karna lost to Arjuna multiple times (in Draupadi's swayamvar as well as in the Virat war during Agyaatvaas), so it's not like he didn't get a fair chance.

However Krishna as well as the rest of the warriors always respected him for his charity. His life decisions were always his responsibility.

Originally posted by: RainFire125

And yamuna touching the Lord's feet :) .. you feel that moment and that happiness when something pure graces the earth!! hai na??

That must have been one blessed time, when every element of the Nature was at its finest, paying obeisances to their beloved Lord!

Hey peeps, please do explore the rest of the forum too, so we can discuss a variety of topics and enjoy ourselves much more! 🤗

Please go ahead and make new threads for different aspects of the show so that we can all explore new POVs and concepts and facts!

Originally posted by: RainFire125

ahhh the great Shikhandi who is resp for the fall of the mightiest Ganga putra!!

Bhishma's fall would have happened even without Shikhandi.

Originally posted by: proteeti

Ekalavya really did suffer way more than he needed to.

However, Karna did have his adoptive parents to seek refuge with. Drona did teach him most of the stuff. He was a classmate of the Princes in Drona's gurukul. Drona only refused him the Brahmastra&etc, which in any case he gave only to Arjun and Ashwatthama, which were prizes for being his son, and the most dedicated student respectively.

Karna never showed that dedication to his Guru that Arjuna did (Karna later showed that dedication to Parashurama, so he got those from him).

He did not know his identity right up to the eve of the War. Also, Karna lost to Arjuna multiple times (in Draupadi's swayamvar as well as in the Virat war during Agyaatvaas), so it's not like he didn't get a fair chance.

However Krishna as well as the rest of the warriors always respected him for his charity. His life decisions were always his responsibility.

Agree! Though Karna had faced discrimination and humiliations on account of his being a saarthi-putra but overall he did have chances to prove his worth. Again I would say his life story is complex. He was also cursed by Parshuram for hiding the truth of his not being a kshatriya (although he was) from him. Kunti is to be blamed for that. But she was a young woman when she tried that boon granted to her by the rishi so, can we really blame her young naive self? Blame her or not but it did have a consequence and that made Karna somewhat bitter towards Pandavas. But Karna did make some choices which were not in consonance with the general understanding of Dharma but what he chose was his own understanding of Dharma. Like everybody else, he was also a tragic figure. A mighty hero who fell because of certain circumstances and his own flaws or choices.

You see, every thing is subjective, maybe even Dharma. It is neither possible nor desirable for making it all objective. What I love about Mahabharata is that it does not judge but simply show life.

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

I don't think so. It's actually hyped. Tv serials usually show that Shikhandi accompanied Arjuna on the latter's chariot. However, a careful reading of the text shows that Shikhandi's chariot was placed in front of Arjuna's chariot to provide a shield to the latter without restricting his attacks on Bhishma. Overall Shikhandi's contribution in Bhishma's fall seems bare minimum as the shield hardly lasted and Bhishma counter attacked Arjuna.

Bhishma's fall would have happened even without Shikhandi.

I think it was not possible for Arjun to defeat Bhishma. But then Krishna would surely have devised a way to ensure the fall of Bhishma for the victory of Pandavas. So, yes his fall was inevitable.

Considering Shikhandin, I think there's another lesson there. What torture and torments that soul (Amba) must have gone through only because she couldn't give up on the revenge she had pledged against Bhishma. Was all that suffering of hers worth it. What did she gain after all the revenge? Nothing. Bhishma would have died some day or the other. Similarly Draupadi. See how she nourished the fire of revenge in her heart and then eventually got her revenge but at what cost. She lost all her sons. Revenge is toxic and the first and last thing it destroys is the one who harbours it.

Originally posted by: sonnet11

Agree! Though Karna had faced discrimination and humiliations on account of his being a saarthi-putra but overall he did have chances to prove his worth. Again I would say his life story is complex. He was also cursed by Parshuram for hiding the truth of his not being a kshatriya (although he was) from him. Kunti is to be blamed for that. But she was a young woman when she tried that boon granted to her by the rishi so, can we really blame her young naive self? Blame her or not but it did have a consequence and that made Karna somewhat bitter towards Pandavas. But Karna did make some choices which were not in consonance with the general understanding of Dharma but what he chose was his own understanding of Dharma. Like everybody else, he was also a tragic figure. A mighty hero who fell because of certain circumstances and his own flaws or choices.

You see, every thing is subjective, maybe even Dharma. It is neither possible nor desirable for making it all objective. What I love about Mahabharata is that it does not judge but simply show life.

Karna's bitterness towards Pandavas was due to the fact that he was Duryodhan's childhood friend. I don't think Kunti had anything to do with that. Karna was bitter because he thought Arjun was responsible for Drona refusing him the divya shastras. She came to know of his identity only at the Ranga-pravesha of the princes. Even there bhi banda gatecrashed a private function. 🤣 (just a joke people)

Originally posted by: proteeti

Karna's bitterness towards Pandavas was due to the fact that he was Duryodhan's childhood friend. I don't think Kunti had anything to do with that. Karna was bitter because he thought Arjun was responsible for Drona refusing him the divya shastras. She came to know of his identity only at the Ranga-pravesha of the princes. Even there bhi banda gatecrashed a private function. 🤣 (just a joke people)

But the text shows that Arjuna used to act arrogant with him. Then how Karna responds to that was his own karma. His bitterness harmed him the most in the end.

Originally posted by: sonnet11

I think it was not possible for Arjun to defeat Bhishma. But then Krishna would surely have devised a way to ensure the fall of Bhishma for the victory of Pandavas. So, yes his fall was inevitable.

Considering Shikhandin, I think there's another lesson there. What torture and torments that soul (Amba) must have gone through only because she couldn't give up on the revenge she had pledged against Bhishma. Was all that suffering of hers worth it. What did she gain after all the revenge? Nothing. Bhishma would have died some day or the other. Similarly Draupadi. See how she nourished the fire of revenge in her heart and then eventually got her revenge but at what cost. She lost all her sons. Revenge is toxic and the first and last thing it destroys is the one who harbours it.

Revenge is truly toxic and destroys one's senses.