The Hypocrisy of Moral Code (ML vs FL) DT Note Pg 5 (Edtd 12.06) - Page 11

@ATC

First of all let me congratulate you for calling a spade a spade, bringing us up to a very understated issue in the Indian Television industry.

Well, I would like to go back to the facts first. When TV was launched as a medium of entertainment in India back in the 80s, given its expensive outreach, it’s content was also very liberal. Because TV viewing was confined to a privileged few who could afford it. People who could afford it had to be of a certain background for whom complexities of characters was of prime importance. Then, with the economic revolution and privatisation, digital media became a household name and back in the early 2000s, television reached the massesWhere every member of the family would watch television together. If you see in that era, there was a rise of very traditional female because that was the kind of scenario which normal masses could relate to. The female lead role was generally kept in reference to her relationship with her family and men around her. She was a daughter, wife, daughter in law and the entire pressure of her keeping the family together was very relatable as a content for general masses. Let’s agree that patriarchy is still one of the mostImportant determining factors of our society. Its structure is based on a woman’s role and how men would want it to be. This societal structure and the reference of women being responsible for everything that happens in the family was shown as a content for the first time through these kind of shows. Hence, it shouldn’tCome as surprising if the female lead is supposed or expected to be pious, pure and absolutely devoted to her true love. Now, points which you raised is valid. The comparison is not between the 2 male leads -about who is better for the female lead? But, it is about how a female lead is expected to behave a certain way. When she got married against her will, she was expected to be a certain way and also now too she is expected to behave a certain way. This is nothing but patriarchal set up and shall take ages to go away from the mindsets of people. A normal viewer is generally not interested in how brave a female lead is. What they enjoy is how she despite being crushed, still survives somehow. They identify with a woman like that.. Let’s also agree that we set different standards for men and women. This has been my problem and shall always be. I really don’t understand why is it important to bring up another parallel lead every time we have to discuss the main lead? This isn’t a competition between him and the parallel lead. This post is about the patriarchal mindset that exist even with the most empowering shows on Indian television. The deal or forced marriages, non-communication, slapping of the female lead, this is all but a gimmick to keep the audience attached to the pathos of a woman.

Originally posted by: TakingAStand2

Lmao!

I get that people have different views, and that’s fine but not differentiating between consent and voyeurism (A peeping vs RB hiding her pregnancy) and Mohini telling off P for A (who is a grown ass adult) vs Bajaj yelling at P for being careless with a 5yesr old MUTE child, this is hilarious.

Anurag remained married to Komo because HE CHOSE that life. He CHOSE for Pre and Homself when he gave into her demands and pushed Pre from the bridge. HE CHOSE to keep sneha from Pre and HIMSELF when he gave into Komo. Even if sneha is alive and thriving, it doesn’t take away the fact that Prerna as an adult was robbed of choice, consent and ability to live her life on her terms. He had the choice to rebut Komo because in this case P acted of self défense. With Bajaj, he arm twisted her, he pushed her to make a choice, but NEVER robbed her of it, and he freed Anu which was Prernas demand, wish, whatever.


There is a HUGE difference there. When Anu lovingly sacrificed his life to live with Komo, what was its purpose? He wasn’t even shown to check on the divers.

If we go back further, he f**ked her in the jungle, then ditched her to get engaged with Komo ( majboori I know, but again changed the course of her life, without so much communicating to her.) Can we see a theme of Anu deciding for Pre robbing her of her choice, consent, etc? There is also a clear lack of communication, Which is problematic to say the least.

i think the pattern of ML deciding for FL and the show not raising that point via the FL, is ALSO problematic. What if P did the same things that A did? Why doesn’t she question his authority?

I can’t be assed to rebut rest of this inane post, but if you need to justify actions comparing Anu vs. A minor child, i feel like there is a gross misunderstanding of life in general.

There is no doubt that this show is about flawed characters and we should discuss them, I am not claiming Bajaj hasn’t wronged Anu or Pre but let’s talk apples to apples. Not Kuki as a 5 year old vs Anu. If people are bringing in points to debate, don’t selectively choose what fits AnuPre narrative, because the issues lie in the finer details.

I think we can all agree, there is a HUGE difference in how ML and FL are viewed and treated. Ekta spoke about this in her interviews too. Per The ITV audience the FL isn’t considered good even if she is shown to desire other men, or are considered impure if they think of moving on with other men. Whereas the men have full leeway to do whatevr they want. The FL must forgive the ML for his actions. I read here that FL is applauded for not jumptkng into bed with Bajaj. First, why not? It’s not like Anu didn’t. And sex is natural and the desire to have it isn’t limited to men. If you are in a STABLE relationship with a man who has shown to be a good partner, a caring friend, you raised a child together, WHY NOT? the inherent ‘I’m glad she didn’t move on from revenge, aka Anu’ is so bizarre.

Prerna can two things: make rôtis and flirt with Anu(when she was married) , which is wrong, and move on with Bajaj, have a normal healthy relationship, which is right.

also, I want to add that Bajaj doesn’t escape the superior ML sphere, cuz he wasn’t morally right when he did proposition P. Also, hiring PI didn’t sit well with me.

But I look at patterns, and don’t get fixated on individual Incidents. Anu has shown patterns that fit the classic superior ML, where Bajaj started that way, but thus far has shown to rectify his actions, starting with uniting AnuPre and confessing to hiring PI cuz it saved her life.

i think wierdly the only thing KzK gets right all of the characters are Flawed.

Your post is practical and sensible one but only problem is that this post came at the time where FL decides to fight her battles after 8 long years. Show concern for well being is only looked upon when it benifts the ML fandom or else people leave no chance to bash FL.

2 sides of the coin where one set of people thinks that she has every bit of right to be happy move on and live a normal life and other set says that she is brave to punish the people who wronged her. Both are not wrong in their point of view. Just like you said FL are not considerd good if they desire someone in their life just like that FLs are not considered good for still loving their ex and are not good if they take divorce or are not considered good if they fighting for what her heart desires.

Originally posted by: manzilmukul

@ATC

First of all let me congratulate you for calling a spade a spade, bringing us up to a very understated issue in the Indian Television industry.

Well, I would like to go back to the facts first. When TV was launched as a medium of entertainment in India back in the 80s, given its expensive outreach, it’s content was also very liberal. Because TV viewing was confined to a privileged few who could afford it. People who could afford it had to be of a certain background for whom complexities of characters was of prime importance. Then, with the economic revolution and privatisation, digital media became a household name and back in the early 2000s, television reached the massesWhere every member of the family would watch television together. If you see in that era, there was a rise of very traditional female because that was the kind of scenario which normal masses could relate to. The female lead role was generally kept in reference to her relationship with her family and men around her. She was a daughter, wife, daughter in law and the entire pressure of her keeping the family together was very relatable as a content for general masses. Let’s agree that patriarchy is still one of the mostImportant determining factors of our society. Its structure is based on a woman’s role and how men would want it to be. This societal structure and the reference of women being responsible for everything that happens in the family was shown as a content for the first time through these kind of shows. Hence, it shouldn’tCome as surprising if the female lead is supposed or expected to be pious, pure and absolutely devoted to her true love. Now, points which you raised is valid. The comparison is not between the 2 male leads -about who is better for the female lead? But, it is about how a female lead is expected to behave a certain way. When she got married against her will, she was expected to be a certain way and also now too she is expected to behave a certain way. This is nothing but patriarchal set up and shall take ages to go away from the mindsets of people. A normal viewer is generally not interested in how brave a female lead is. What they enjoy is how she despite being crushed, still survives somehow. They identify with a woman like that.. Let’s also agree that we set different standards for men and women. This has been my problem and shall always be. I really don’t understand why is it important to bring up another parallel lead every time we have to discuss the main lead? This isn’t a competition between him and the parallel lead. This post is about the patriarchal mindset that exist even with the most empowering shows on Indian television. The deal or forced marriages, non-communication, slapping of the female lead, this is all but a gimmick to keep the audience attached to the pathos of a woman.

Thank you :)

I agree completely. I think we've all grown up with FLs being a particular way. The strong, resilient type who rises from the ashes time and again. But as we've grown up we have also seen how nothing is expected from the other side and how most problems FLs face are because or due to the MLs actions and patriarchal mindset at large. It becomes clear as day how standards are different. And that needs to change. A FL can be pure. pious and all that, but then make the ML exactly that. The 'chalta hain' attitude for MLs is shocking.

Originally posted by: BombayGirl10

Your post is practical and sensible one but only problem is that this post came at the time where FL decides to fight her battles after 8 long years. Show concern for well being is only looked upon when it benifts the ML fandom or else people leave no chance to bash FL.

2 sides of the coin where one set of people thinks that she has every bit of right to be happy move on and live a normal life and other set says that she is brave to punish the people who wronged her. Both are not wrong in their point of view. Just like you said FL are not considerd good if they desire someone in their life just like that FLs are not considered good for still loving their ex and are not good if they take divorce or are not considered good if they fighting for what her heart desires.

I think selective bashing is something we are all guilty of. Judgement comes easy to us sitting on the fringes, watching the show as it should be, rather than what it is

I think lot of the issues stem from the facts that Prerna is JUST now starting to have a voice of her own. When was the last time she took an action for herself? In the past her actions had blinders on and sometimes at the cost of self perseveration or safety of the her child, she would take on anurag’s probelms. How much of that can be attributed to choices both MLs made for her or pushed her to make? This itself talks about the inherent bias that ITv writers write narratives.

The group of people who want her to move on are also people who want her to take revenge ( or whatever she passes for revenge) as well because we (I) think that AnuPre have a bad relationship with foundations in poor communication, lack of trust and ultimately him robbing her of 8years with their child.

I believe we are really addressing two issues here: how many of her life choices are her own, i.e how much of the narrative is dominated by male indulgence, and P as a character.

At the end of the day, Prerna as a character has the choice to do what she wants. She is very hypocritical in that her ideologies are rooted in what should be, rather what is, so she comes off has having 2 sets of standards.Till now she wasn’t given a voice, now she is. Let’s see how the makers shape her.

Originally posted by: TakingAStand2

I think selective bashing is something we are all guilty of. Judgement comes easy to us sitting on the fringes, watching the show as it should be, rather than what it is

I think lot of the issues stem from the facts that Prerna is JUST now starting to have a voice of her own. When was the last time she took an action for herself? In the past her actions had blinders on and sometimes at the cost of self perseveration or safety of the her child, she would take on anurag’s probelms. How much of that can be attributed to choices both MLs made for her or pushed her to make? This itself talks about the inherent bias that ITv writers write narratives.

The group of people who want her to move on are also people who want her to take revenge ( or whatever she passes for revenge) as well because we (I) think that AnuPre have a bad relationship with foundations in poor communication, lack of trust and ultimately him robbing her of 8years with their child.

I believe we are really addressing two issues here: how many of her life choices are her own, i.e how much of the narrative is dominated by male indulgence, and P as a character.

At the end of the day, Prerna as a character has the choice to do what she wants. She is very hypocritical in that her ideologies are rooted in what should be, rather what is, so she comes off has having 2 sets of standards.Till now she wasn’t given a voice, now she is. Let’s see how the makers shape her.

💯💯💯💯💯

@bold . A universal truth.

I've consciously not been active on the forum but wanted to put in my two cents here as well.

Feminism is a woman's choice to be able to do as she pleases. Whether that is developing her professional life, or living for someone else, that choice should only be taken by that woman. No one else should have the right to decide what is right for her. As a woman of today, I make my own decisions and no one has the right to take that away from me.

Since people believe that AnuPre fans don't call out Anurag, I will start out with that. I believe what Anurag did was wrong. He should have communicated with Prerna in a better fashion. I did not like that he took a decision for Prerna and I will never stand by the choice he made. However, calling someone out and loving someone are two completely different things. Even though I am extremely upset with Anurag, I love Anurag.

Coming to other characters... I have two situations in mind. Older man #1 used his contacts to try to take away Prerna's house in order to get her to marry him. Prerna was coerced into making a decision so that her family would not end up on the streets. Older man #2 used his contacts to get Prerna's finance and father of her child into jail for a crime he never committed and tried to take away his life in order to get Prerna to marry him. Prerna was coerced into making a decision to protect her love's life. Prerna also had to become a mother to a child she was never informed about, which means that she was never even allowed an opportunity to make an informed decision. Older man #1 (Naveen Babu) was called a creepy old man, Older man #2 (Bajaj) is referred to as a hero. Both situations to me are blackmail and will never match my definition of a modern-day woman.

Agreed, Bajaj mentored her. Agreed, Bajaj gave her a new life. However, that will never undo the fact that he has taken decisions for her and has arm-twisted her into making certain decisions. True feminism would have been if Prerna herself had made the choice that she did not want to confront Anurag. Instead, she is taken away and not even given an opportunity to confront Anurag, which was what she wanted to do. Prerna has to ask permission from Bajaj to come back to Kolkata - again, not a modern day woman. For me, when Prerna is allowed her own agency and autonomy, that is when she is truly free.

Prerna before Bajaj entered the show, was different from most ITV leads we see today. She was selfish. She did things that she wanted to do, not really considering whether they were politically correct. She fought for her love. She lived her life for Anurag. However, those remained her decisions. If a woman decides to give up her career for her love, so be it, so long as that is what she wants. Basically, whatever Prerna decides should be her decision and not what someone else wants for her/themselves. That is the true definition of a modern-day woman.

I tried to remain as neutral as possible in my analysis. Thanks for reading.

Originally posted by: rp5127

Feminism is a woman's choice to be able to do as she pleases. Whether that is developing her professional life, or living for someone else, that choice should only be taken by that woman. No one else should have the right to decide what is right for her. As a woman of today, I make my own decisions and no one has the right to take that away from me.

Prerna before Bajaj entered the show, was different from most ITV leads we see today. She was selfish. She did things that she wanted to do, not really considering whether they were politically correct. She fought for her love. She lived her life for Anurag. However, those remained her decisions. If a woman decides to give up her career for her love, so be it, so long as that is what she wants. Basically, whatever Prerna decides should be her decision and not what someone else wants for her/themselves. That is the true definition of a modern-day woman.

I tried to remain as neutral as possible in my analysis. Thanks for reading.

True feminism . Anurag should seek her permission before tossing her off the howrah bridge. And bajaj should have sought her permission to save her. "Mam aap bachna chahti hain ya nai, otherwise we will keep swimming here ". Fyi he did take her to farmhouse to confront anurag but looking at the scene there he decided otherwise. 😆 Bajaj should also toss her down and end the story . She doesnt deserve to be rescued. Usko maarne la haq bhi anurag ka hai and it's her right to be killed by anurag only .

Originally posted by: _charu_

True feminism . Anurag should seek her permission before tossing her off the howrah bridge. And bajaj should have sought her permission to save her. "Mam aap bachna chahti hain ya nai, otherwise we will keep swimming here ". Fyi he did take her to farmhouse to confront anurag but looking at the scene there he decided otherwise. 😆 Bajaj should also toss her down and end the story . She doesnt deserve to be rescued. Usko maarne la haq bhi anurag ka hai and it's her right to be killed by anurag only .

I guess you didn't read the part where I said I disagreed with Anurag did. Selective reading, much? 😆

Since people believe that AnuPre fans don't call out Anurag, I will start out with that. I believe what Anurag did was wrong. He should have communicated with Prerna in a better fashion. I did not like that he took a decision for Prerna and I will never stand by the choice he made. However, calling someone out and loving someone are two completely different things. Even though I am extremely upset with Anurag, I love Anurag.

My point is that Prerna should have decided she didn't want to confront Anurag. Prerna very much so wanted to confront Anurag. Bajaj decided that for her that she wasn't going to do so. That is not feminism.

We live in a country where feminine energy is celebrated and worshipped. Feminism is definitely about choice. It definitely gives the choice to women to decide for themselves. Sadly, the entire premise of the show is not a woman taking decisions. Secondly, I believe very strongly in an egalitarian Society. Studying, having a professional life and being a career woman should not be a choice for a woman. It should be a part of their lifestyle. I emphasise this here not because I have anything against women who choose to be home makers and caregivers. But, we are not living in our nomadic or community society anymore. When we were hunters and gatherers, the premise of women being caregivers was interesting. There was a community which raised up children together and a solidarity of sisterhood. Now, we live in a society which is nuclear, the emotional and financial dependency on a man can be a major risk given how life is with its unpredictability. You never know what life throws at you! Even if you don’t get ditched by a man or his family, what is the surety of life itself? I have seen women who were homemakers and caregivers struggle with life once everything is not rosy. Their capacities are reduced because despite being educated they would have never faced the world and its challenges.Instead of talking about how women should have a choice to decide on their own, one should always emphasise on the importance of being financially, socially, emotionally independent of not only men but women in life. In this brutal world, one needs to develop skills, have a career and be ready to fend for themselves alone. Whether it’s a man or a woman, both should earn, both should be equally responsible for making homes. That is what will be truly liberating and empowering both men and women.
I truly respect women who choose to give up their careers to be home makers. Fact check, the un-contributed and unaccounted for, unpaid labour which women do at homes has approximately a huge contribution in GDP, sadly unaccounted for.

Originally posted by: rp5127

I've consciously not been active on the forum but wanted to put in my two cents here as well.

Feminism is a woman's choice to be able to do as she pleases. Whether that is developing her professional life, or living for someone else, that choice should only be taken by that woman. No one else should have the right to decide what is right for her. As a woman of today, I make my own decisions and no one has the right to take that away from me.

Since people believe that AnuPre fans don't call out Anurag, I will start out with that. I believe what Anurag did was wrong. He should have communicated with Prerna in a better fashion. I did not like that he took a decision for Prerna and I will never stand by the choice he made. However, calling someone out and loving someone are two completely different things. Even though I am extremely upset with Anurag, I love Anurag.

Coming to other characters... I have two situations in mind. Older man #1 used his contacts to try to take away Prerna's house in order to get her to marry him. Prerna was coerced into making a decision so that her family would not end up on the streets. Older man #2 used his contacts to get Prerna's finance and father of her child into jail for a crime he never committed and tried to take away his life in order to get Prerna to marry him. Prerna was coerced into making a decision to protect her love's life. Prerna also had to become a mother to a child she was never informed about, which means that she was never even allowed an opportunity to make an informed decision. Older man #1 (Naveen Babu) was called a creepy old man, Older man #2 (Bajaj) is referred to as a hero. Both situations to me are blackmail and will never match my definition of a modern-day woman.

Agreed, Bajaj mentored her. Agreed, Bajaj gave her a new life. However, that will never undo the fact that he has taken decisions for her and has arm-twisted her into making certain decisions. True feminism would have been if Prerna herself had made the choice that she did not want to confront Anurag. Instead, she is taken away and not even given an opportunity to confront Anurag, which was what she wanted to do. Prerna has to ask permission from Bajaj to come back to Kolkata - again, not a modern day woman. For me, when Prerna is allowed her own agency and autonomy, that is when she is truly free.

Prerna before Bajaj entered the show, was different from most ITV leads we see today. She was selfish. She did things that she wanted to do, not really considering whether they were politically correct. She fought for her love. She lived her life for Anurag. However, those remained her decisions. If a woman decides to give up her career for her love, so be it, so long as that is what she wants. Basically, whatever Prerna decides should be her decision and not what someone else wants for her/themselves. That is the true definition of a modern-day woman.

I tried to remain as neutral as possible in my analysis. Thanks for reading.

Sure. But this has zero correlation with the discrepancies on ITV that this topic is essentially about. 😆 You tried though.

Feminism is equality in all spheres and in all respects. Period. So when certain things are deemed 'untouchable things' for the FL,the same should be done for the ML. While the FL has to pass hurdles upon hurdles in the name of struggle essentially those created by the patriarchal society at large while the ML gets away with it. That's post. And KZK2 has sacrificed the worth of the FL at the alter of the ML time and again.

To bring in 'feminism' to defend ITV sexist ITV tropes. All right 😆