A message to hatred for Sonu Nigam in the name of religion - Page 12

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MadOwhat thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

On another side note - I'm a deist atheist. I used to consider myself a nontheist until I better understood deism.


Deist Atheist ???...is it a typo ??

It like standing on the footboard of 2 train traveling in opposite direction

Both can't co-exist ...one needs a god ...other refutes the existence of God.
Edited by MadOwhat - 8 years ago
MadOwhat thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
Two incident took place in the last couple of days

  1. Sonu's tweet...an opinion people perceived as a diktat
  2. The tonsure/shoe fatwa from the Maulvi...supposedly the custodian of religion
Question 1 - who brings more disrepute to the religion ??
Question 2 - which side do you think the focus is skewed.

Hint - check the no of threads and posts for both.

Qualification for assessment - I assume most here are educated folks with moderate views...but this just needs common sense.
Edited by MadOwhat - 8 years ago
roni_berna thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
Sonu spoke against the loudspeaker and is declared an anti-Muslim? Or did I hear wrong 🤓
TotalBetty thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: MadOwhat

I agree Late Christopher Hitchens is by far the most bold & balanced atheist I have heard.I also find Richard Dawkins early commentaries quite impartial. Haven't had much exposure to Sam Harris, from the little I know his concept on secularism seems quite practically (The concept of god & religion itself is non-secular), besides he not pure atheist (from definition pov) in the sense that he endorse the Advaita Vedanta concept.

As for most Atheist being selective in their critique, you need to understand that though they don' t fear for God and after life...they do fear for their life😊.

The same bunch of atheist wouldn't be criticizing Christianity in the pre- world war era. If you want the proof of pudding, search Ayn Rand on you tube.The author was a high profile atheist in the early 20th century, there is black and white AV on YT where she speak against Christianity in a forum. You will be surprised with the reaction from the audience.

After the second world war, the state and religion were separated in the western countries hence Christianity went through reforms and opened up for critique.Where as, Islam which was passive after the power shift to Europe became more conservative as the petro-dollars started flowing after mid 20th century and Wahabism/Salafism brand got promoted.





Bold - But 'Seperation of church and state' is in the US constitution, in the first amendment itself which was written in the late 18th century, long before WWII.

The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court's interpretations ...

The exact phrase 'seperation of church and state' is traced to Thomas Jefferson in 1802.

Blue - Haven't watched Ayn Rand's speech yet, but I am guessing she was not issued fatwa, not killed or maimed bcz of that, atleast she was allowed to have and say anti Christian beliefs

which even now you can't against some religions.
Edited by ---Betty--- - 8 years ago
TotalBetty thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
^^^

Actually criticism of Christanity has existed since it's early years and there were several cases not just one or two here and there, so it's not true that it only started post World War.

There was Voltaire of course and several other 18th century (the Age of Enlightenment) European philosophers who criticized Christanity


Fredrick Nietzsche's book "The AntiChrist" was a scathing review of the religion and it's church

American revolutionary Thomas Paine attacked the corruption of religious authorities

During French Revolution churches and priests were attacked(literally), churches were closed down, destroyed, priests deported...

But long before any of this enlightenment and scientific revolution happened, 2nd century Greek philosopher Celsus wrote "The True World"... It's the earliest known comprehensive attack on Christanity, there were other such works too around that period...

Later any religious criticism was suppressed under Roman Empire for a millennium, until Protestant reformation in the 15,16th century led to fundamental split in Christanity, then it started again...

Didn't Charles Darwin's "Theory of Evolution" go against Bible teachings 😊

Finally Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi (the man was tireless in his support for islamists 😊 ) have criticized the behaviour of Christians (not Christanity itself)
Edited by ---Betty--- - 8 years ago
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: roni_berna

Sonu spoke against the loudspeaker and is declared an anti-Muslim? Or did I hear wrong 🤓

Declare karne mein kia jaata hai.. I declare you anti-IF.. Kia ukhar sakte ho?
MadOwhat thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: ---Betty---

^^^

Actually criticism of Christanity has existed since it's early years and there were several cases not just one or two here and there, so it's not true that it only started post World War.

There was Voltaire of course and several other 18th century (the Age of Enlightenment) European philosophers who criticized Christanity


Fredrick Nietzsche's book "The AntiChrist" was a scathing review of the religion and it's church

American revolutionary Thomas Paine attacked the corruption of religious authorities

During French Revolution churches and priests were attacked(literally), churches were closed down, destroyed, priests deported...

But long before any of this enlightenment and scientific revolution happened, 2nd century Greek philosopher Celsus wrote "The True World"... It's the earliest known comprehensive attack on Christanity, there were other such works too around that period...

Later any religious criticism was suppressed under Roman Empire for a millennium, until Protestant reformation in the 15,16th century led to fundamental split in Christanity, then it started again...

Didn't Charles Darwin's "Theory of Evolution" go against Bible teachings 😊

Finally Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi (the man was tireless in his support for islamists 😊 ) have criticized the behaviour of Christians (not Christanity itself)

Let me clarify
My post was an attempt to answer your question on partisan atheist/intellectuals behavior in a nutshell...the gist was the equation between tolerance/openness of subject to the intellectual critique.
Pre-world war/Ayn Rand was just reference point to drive the point
I confess to shooting & scooting due to pauciity of time...Should have given a disclaimer that the assesment wasn't across the life span of the religions or an attempt to compare both the religion
While both the religion have prolselytising agenda...Islam has been the bloodiest in its conquest and least guilty about it...Christianity atleast accepts the guilt for the Crusaders.
In the Maulvi thread you have explained the Succession of Abrahamic religion and the changes it went through with each step...which explains the reason for the hardline approach.
You might also want to consider the fact that Judaism was actually inspired by Zorastrianism, when the persians were reigning in the Middle East...The persians beleived in protecting their identity and never allowed conversion...However looked down upon the polytheistic concept
Darwin's theory was an outcome of progress in science...looking at it as an agenda to critisize Christianity will take it to the Conpiracy theory domain(could also be true)...I am myself not convinced about the theory though.
On Nehru & Gandhi ...it is more political then religious...and its a big subject which merits discussion with context,

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