Episode Discussion Thread #16 01/07/2016 - 31/07/2016 - Page 80

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kaatayani thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
there's one thing I am wondering.. do we really need Greek antagonists now..Helena had a reason..

Even Lassandra has (if we look from this point of view that the Greeks want to capture India)

but still are the Greeks still needed now? Frankly speaking I am tired of Helena nd Lassandra.. Its the time when Siamak shud actually show that he has inherited some cunning from his hell bound granny

I want the focus more on the remaining players sans the Greek elements
babur1527 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Lovely to see the EDT coming back to life once again. Sorry I couldn't join the discussion guys. I had to finish the new chapter of my OS. 😆

Chapter 17: https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/136004202


Hopefully this week is a good one. Forum favorite Jaggu is back to screw things up again. ❤️

(or set things right) 😛.
Edited by babur1527 - 9 years ago
Nonie12345 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
wonderful analysis of maha episode Shymala aunty
mahaepisode was awesome👏
finally helena got killed😊
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Welcome to the South Indian fold, my dear Anu! So you are from God's own country and now settled in the Gateway of India!

Shyamala Aunty

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Oh Lord, Sandhya, you are beginning to surpass yourself! This is hilarious.

But as I wrote to capricorn a few pages earlier, an even funnier thing would be if Noor had lied to Justin, and Siamak was not his son after all! You know, under such circumstances, it is not easy to be sure about the father.

I am very pleased that you liked my psychological analysis of Ashoka and his decision re: Siamak

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A



👏So well explained Aunty.

True. He could have killed Helena and won Bindu's praises. But he would have lost the chance to give Helena the unkindest cut of all. If Helena sliced Justin, it was agreed upon between them and at Justin's request. But this was out of the blue and a totally selfish action. And the real punishment for Helena.

Now, the unkindest cut of all for Bindu will be Siyamak's truth. The son he dotes on as most upekshith-ed, least ambitious and his best agya kari putra, when it finally turns out that he is not his putra at all and that his kshamtha to use his vivek had evaporated wrt his wife and Bro - that would be real justice.


Originally posted by: sashashyam



Here, I am with you completely. Ashoka should have listened to Kaurwaki (I can practically hear the loud groans across the EDT!😉) , and once Helena had finished her spiel and raised the dagger, he should have leapt to Bindusara's defence and wrested the weapon from her, and either killed her on the spot or left her for the executioner. That would have been by far the shrewdest and the simplest way to handle it.

But there is something else deep inside Ashoka that makes him do what he does, and it is more psychological and emotional than pragmatic or politically astute. He hates Helena with a visceral hatred, and he wants to make her pay for at least part of the suffering she has caused him and his. Not so much physically, but in her mind and heart (or what passes as one for her). For this to happen, she has to be betrayed by the one she loved and loves the most, her precious grandson. This he achieves, for the agony in her face and eyes in that very last instant before Siamak strikes is awful to behold.

Moreover, Ashoka does not see Siamak as a threat in the throne stakes, so his becoming such a paragon of a rajabhakt in Bindusara's eyes, a consequence Ashoka should have anticipated, might not have bothered him too much. Most important of all, he does not anticipate that Siamak will seek the governorship of Takshashila. That comes as a shock, but he rallies quickly. And it will surely be easier for him to dispose of Siamak in such a far away place than it would be to do the same thing right here.


guenhwyvar thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Quite a few days late, and it looks like I've missed quite the discussion. 😆😆 I only just got time to watch last week's Thursday and Friday episodes so here's my quick take.
Thursday -

The show starts off in the most ridiculous way - Devi disappointed that Kaurvaki got blamed. However, however, however, it was also in this scene that Kaurvaki displayed one her more enlightening monologues that surprisingly had nothing to do with Ashok. Further, even Saumya felt brilliant during that motherland scene - the subtlety in acting, the tone, the enunciation all flowed excellently and while I did initially stare at my computer screen (I was streaming CAS on my TV), her dialogues actually managed to get my attention. So kudos for that.

Ashok comes on next, ordering the soldiers and spies to start searching and keeping an eye on folks who deal with Unani medication / herbs; however he didn't ask anyone to watch the remainder of the evil gang - Charu, Sushim, Siamak, and Khallatak. Though, I think there was a reason behind this as well. As clever as it would have been to have spies follow CSSK, imagine the consequences that would have followed if one of the spies were caught. Maybe an oath was taken to cut all relations with the mothership if discovered, but still there are two routes that lead to Helena. One goes through the royal family, the other goes through less noticeable things. You want to get as less attention as possible, so perhaps that's what Ashok was thinking?

I was confused about whether Helena is actually on the mountain or not. It doesn't seem like a likely solution (given that you have to climb the mountain twice each time you want to see Helena).

Lassandra's introduction was something I found particularly interesting. I'll make a separate post for this later on after more Lassandra episodes come this way (and I remember).

Finally, the episode ends in an odd way - Kaurvaki's suggestion to trust Lassandra going on the reasoning that a woman can renounce everything, even relations for revenge. And this got Ashok thinking.

I couldn't follow that logic. Just because this lady says that she is here for revenge, Ashok should just accept her? I could see younger Ashok doing that - thinking more from his heart, trusting everyone - but not this Ashok. Kaurvaki essentially rushes Ashok into making a fast decision without considering anything. He knows nothing about Lassandra except that she is a Unani. He can't be sure if she is fibbing over her background story, nor can he be sure that she can be trusted. There are many cases where women seeking revenge cannot be trusted. Helena, Niharika, Agnishikha, Charu, Noor... and something this huge - Lassandra promising to deliver Helena - can't be decided on just the basis of 'oh she is a lady seeking revenge. Let's trust her because we got nothing better to do?' Speaking of which, Ashok was stumped when Lassandra told him what other options he had, which is odd ... what exactly was Ashok planning to do beyond just sending the spies out? If he was going to rely on them only, that's a) Not an Ashok plan and b) incredibly stupid of him.

On to Friday's episode...

Contrary to the ending of Thursday's episode, we don't get a continuation of the Ashok-Lassandra-Kaurvaki-RG meeting. Rather, gifts are brought into the court to which an incredibly stupid Bindusar ask, "Who has sent them?"

How does he have no idea that someone from Unan is approaching Pataliputra? The spy network is crap, as we all know, but still Lassandra introduces herself as a messenger of the King of Unan. This isn't an informal meeting, this is very formal - so Bindusar should have some idea of how is coming and why.

Despite Thursday's episode, it was very clear that Ashok and Lassandra were going to team up to take down Helena. The way they spoke, looked at each other gave it away and I think that's a very impressive interpretation on the actors' behalves.

And then the Siamak the Perv scene. He watching Lassandra from a corner, and long story short - he has been screwed up as a child. Sushim had Ahankara, Ashok had Ahankara and Kaurvaki, but Siamak never got anyone. He hasn't learned how to talk to women yet in this age, and thus he stumbles and is at a loss of words, thoughts and actions. But that's not important, Lassandra is important.

The way this scene played out is another remarkable turn on the CVs part. For a second there, you're caught thinking and wondering if Lassandra is really on Team Ashok or if she's there to set up her own game. She semi-seduces Siamak and tells him that she needs to get Helena to Unan; after Siamak leaves, pleasantly flustered, Sushim is shown standing in the other corner having heard everything. In one move, she made Siamak think that she is there for Team Helena, got Sushim to silently approve her plan (adding another pawn), and with these two "backing her", Helena is easy prey.

I'm going to skip the rest of the episode since nothing else seems necessary to say.
guenhwyvar thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
I guess I'll start this long post off with a tribute to Helana the wonderful and praise-worthy character portrayed by Suzanne. From the days of our beloved Chelena battles of wit, cunning, and intellect to the days after Chanakya's death where Helena carried all these plans to kill Ashok - she won our hearts as our favorite villain. Rest in peace oh burning hot (pun intended) villain. You charmed the audience with your looks, entertained them with your plans, and angered us with your continuous (and failed) attempts to kill Ashok. You did spectacular and now, join your beloved Chankaya in CAS Swarg and have the best after-life possible, you deserve it. 0
On to the MahaEpisode --

There were a lot of good parts, a few bad parts, and oh my farking goodness, Ashok pull out your sword and slice Bindusar's throat already; that man is a disgrace to the samrat title!

*Ehem* I lost my composure there for a second. I'm all good now.

Basically, the Mahaepisode is a perfectly downward descent from Excellent to Worse.

Scene 1: Court scene, Helena's entrance --> revelation
Helena's entrance and final revelation is down extremely well. I would like to complement the CVs on their wonderful rendition of putting in flashback scenes to help the flow of the story. The dialogues were particularly entertaining, such as Ashok's mock lines "Be careful Devi, you might need help..." when Helena appears.

Of course, I couldn't help but question why Helena chose to continue walking up those "stairs" into the court room. It's not like her vision was compromised entirely that she could only recognize that she was in the court room the moment the trap door closed. She clearly could see that this wasn't some jungle or desert or cave, etc. and rather it was a furnished place, so why enter just like that.

One could argue that she trusted Lassandra, thus she might have thought that this path led to somewhere safe; however, Helena doesn't trust someone easily. Lassandra giving her the letter and then giving the promise in the Unani style wouldn't normally be accepted as easily. Helena would make sure that she wasn't being double-crossed, especially by some foreign stranger.

The Flashback
I loved how everything was described in the flashback as it went. The entire plan was entirely Ashok's, and they showed it like that. Ashok essentially knew where his enemy was at all times because he made his enemy go where he wanted her to go. Fabulous, mind-blowing!

Scene 2: Bindusar's epiphany and Helena's truth
I thought this scene was a great one, Bindusar finally accepted that Ashok was right and he was wrong. Of course, this gets heavily skewed in the end, however, let's enjoy this moment while it's still there. He even calls Helena by her name and not "Maa" or "RajMata"

- Side Qualm: Why does everyone still give respect to a traitor as Helena by addressing her as RajMata. Surely that doesn't bode well politically if you constantly emphasize that the dynasty's own "RajMata" betrayed them all. I can understand Sushim or another member of the jiggly butt gang calling her RajMata since they are all working together, but not anyone else.

Helena reveals how much she hates Ashok because she constantly was defeated by him. She reveals how she survived, though interestingly she didn't reveal anyone's name.

Why might that be? There are several possibilities, and I'm sure it was discussed here (apologies, I just haven't had time to read through all your wonderful posts), but the main ones might be:

1) Bindusar won't believe her. She's just admitted that she was out to kill the Mauryans, and if she includes the names of Charu, Sushim, and Khallatak (Siamak won't be mentioned to save him) - there is no reason for Bindusar to believe her. She might be lying just to wipe out some Mauryans before she dies.

2) Siamak's life would be in danger. I think this might be the big one and it goes parallel with #1. I think it's certain that Bindusar won't believe Helena, but Sushim, etc. will definitely not spare Siamak for Helena's betrayal (since Siamak is closest to Helena). Since Helena won't be there to protect Siamak, his end is almost certain.

3) While it was shown right after Helena concludes her speech, her third reason was because she was certain that she was going to kill Bindusar. But that isn't as strong a possibility. Think about it - let's suppose Helena is successful in killing Bindusar. The next step is either Helena escapes miraculously, or she is captured and trialed, or she is killed on the spot. The first one is 100% not likely, the second one might now work out either. With the Samrat dead, a fight for supremacy would occur, there wouldn't be a trial, it would be a waste of time. Thus, Helena's immediate death by Ashok's sword (or Sushim's sword) would be the strongest and most likely possibility. This puts us in #2 though. Siamak need to get rid of his two brothers to become king and Helena knows that Siamak isn't bright enough to do that. In fact, with Helena gone, there is no need for Siamak either for Sushim. Unless Helena had an ace up her sleeve that wiped out Ashok and Sushim at the same time, there wasn't any hope for Siamak to gain the throne.

An important flashback to note was Ashok saying that Helena had other companions. This is important later on in the episode.

Scene 3: Helena's cough / Attack
This was a sad moment in CAS Mauryan history and the beginning of yet another Bhondusar, Dumbosaur, Buddhusar ... moment. Helena breaks down in coughs, she calls Bindusar putra, and our genius samrat who mere moments ago couldn't tolerate Helena insulting Ashok / Dharma and having heard the entire truth from her, skips down to her calling out "Maa." Sure if this all happened in Bindusar's personal chambers that's sort of fine (I'd still call out his stupidity), but this is in court and a traitor is admitting her guilt. You don't just skip down, give the traitor a personal relationship randomly, and stand there shocked when she goes to kill you!

It was revealed that this too was Ashok's plan, and it's a stupid part. Lassandra was given the task to convince Siamak to kill Helena. First of all, that's absurd as hell. Maybe that's why they showed Siamak so engrossed and flustered in front of Lassandra. He's brainless already, and now he is brainlessly in love. He'll do whatever she says without giving it much thought. This is the fine line of trusting Lassandra. If Siamak doesn't stop Helena, who else will? Ashok didn't take the precaution of staying close to Bindusar, he was a couple of steps away. No one else reacted (beyond giving a shocked expression) in the entire court scene, not the soldiers, not the sons, not anyone. Had Siamak not stepped in, Bindusar would have died and this was largely overlooked by Ashok. Odd.

Scene 4: Siamak convinced, kills Helena, and then breaks down.
Lassandra was able to convince Siamak a bit too easily. She just said that Helena had to die, blah blah blah, you kill her or she will kill you like she killed Justin; and Siamak just agreed to it like it was nothing. As Capri puts it in the August EDT, Siamak was like putty in Lassandra's hands 🤣.

Siamak kills Helena, and then breaks down. I couldn't tell if he was acting to gain Bindusar's sympathy or if he actually meant it, but I do hope it's the former. It would make him a devious competitor.

Scene 5: Takshashila and Ashok's Chand
Siamak asks for Takshashila, Ashok refuses and tells Bindusar the truth about how Charu, Sushim, Siamak, and Khallatak are supporting Helena but Bindusar doesn't hear of it.

Bindusar's stupidity is prominently displayed here. 15 minutes ago, Bindusar heard Helena saying that she lied to Bindusar saying she never told Ashok anything, when she actually did. Ashok accuses the 4 but Bindusar is too stupid to realize the truth and doesn't seem to learn anything from what just happened.

Then what was the point of him uttering those lines in the beginning about how he exiled Ashok, how Ashok was telling the truth etc. if he wasn't going to believe him again. No comments ... I can't deal with Bindusar's stupidity.

Scene 6: Kaurvaki's defense and Bindusar's lame rebuttal
Kaurvaki shined and was, in my opinion, a spike in the degrading end of the episode. She defended Ashok brilliantly, and pointed out Bindusar's error, which the latter didn't like because he rebutted with the marriage argument. Again, what was she talking about, and what are you talking about Bimbosaur -- completely unrelated. He even cuts off Dharma 😡😡😡 (sure she was going to say pro-KVK stuff, but I was relatively happy with KVK so I would have let it slide).

Precap: Lassandra teams up with Sushim and Siamak to get rid of Ashok...

My guess is that Lassandra is still playing for Team Ashok (she still needs to get rid of that Antioch (or whatever his name was) fellow) and taking Sushim and Siamak for a ride carefully planned by Ashok. Since I haven't watched Monday's episode yet so I don't know what to expect, though in the time begin, I'm rooting for LaShok or Ashandra now 😆😆
babur1527 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: shyam09

I couldn't follow that logic. Just because this lady says that she is here for revenge, Ashok should just accept her? I could see younger Ashok doing that - thinking more from his heart, trusting everyone - but not this Ashok. Kaurvaki essentially rushes Ashok into making a fast decision without considering anything. He knows nothing about Lassandra except that she is a Unani. He can't be sure if she is fibbing over her background story, nor can he be sure that she can be trusted. There are many cases where women seeking revenge cannot be trusted. Helena, Niharika, Agnishikha, Charu, Noor... and something this huge - Lassandra promising to deliver Helena - can't be decided on just the basis of 'oh she is a lady seeking revenge. Let's trust her because we got nothing better to do?' Speaking of which, Ashok was stumped when Lassandra told him what other options he had, which is odd ... what exactly was Ashok planning to do beyond just sending the spies out? If he was going to rely on them only, that's a) Not an Ashok plan and b) incredibly stupid of him.


First off, welcome back you sly old fox.

Secondly ditto on that. I just don't understand why should Ashok trust Lassandra? And needless to say the over-glorification of KVK continues. It would have made sense if, I don't know,

KVK KNEW LASSANDRA?

You hare brained CVs have gone out of your way to glorify KVK, so adding this detail wouldn't have hurt much now would it?

Lassandra needed a better back story. The most logical reason for Ashok to trust her would be if Radhagupt had actually brought Lassandra. Lassandra's father being an old acquaintance of Chanakya would have sealed the deal.
Edited by babur1527 - 9 years ago
guenhwyvar thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: babur1527


First off, welcome back you sly old fox.

Secondly ditto on that. I just don't understand why should Ashok trust Lassandra? And needless to say the over-glorification of KVK continues. It would have made sense if, I don't know,

KVK KNEW LASSANDRA?

You hare brained CVs have gone out of your way to glorify KVK, so adding this detail wouldn't have hurt much now would it?

Lassandra needed a better back story. The most logical reason for Ashok to trust her would be if Radhagupt had actually brought Lassandra. Lassandra's father being an old acquaintance of Chanakya would have sealed the deal.

Thank you Thank you 😆

Your backstory is a great one though, and would have suitably worked. On that note, RG stayed silent during that entire scene; he didn't question anyone at all and just went along - very out of character.

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