Jodha Akbar discussion corner! - Page 14

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ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala



IN FACT IT WAS THE OTHER WAY ROUND MANDY


JALAL WAS PURPOSELY SHOWN CRUEL AND RUTHLESS SO THAT JODHA COULD REFORM HIM WITH LORIS LET N LAP, AND HER BHAASHANS


COZ IF U SEE SO MANY OTHER MEDIUMS FROM WHERE WE LEARN ABOUT AKBAR, THERE ARE NO REFERENCES TO HIS BEING CRUEL AT ALL


SO THIS WAS A SPECIAL EKTA BRAND AKBAR 😆



yes ekta did create her own history😆..and not to forget the evergreen wig to head love with some insect transfer that sucked all jalal's blood supply to his brain😛
Morana thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
sorry to butt in guys, but I've a better explanation of the bloopers ! Well, last day I was thinking about all the bloopers in CAS , gaping loop holes in story lines n saazishes , and wondering what happened to the script writer, but then it dawned upon me that may be he thinks- a. We are shallow viewers who won't mind bloopers as these shows mean nothing more to us other than time pass n light entertainment, I'm sure they'd do a flip, if they know we're analyzing every single scene n dialog n angle minutely. They underestimate their own shows and expect the viewers to forget about the show once running time is over !
b. They think Indian viewers incapable of remembering old episodes n what happended in them, i.e, they underestimate their viewer's intellect.

Kuch vi dikha do, sab chalta hai ! 😛
Edited by AnnaPaquinFan - 9 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
NOTICE, TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!!

Look, if you young people do not stop lamenting about lep, lap and loris, plus bhaashans, I am going to call a halt to these posts. I am tired of the same old rona dhona being dragged in no matter how often I request that you take these old episodes as is. If this is all you intend to do, you can do it without me. It is a good bit of strain for me to do these posts, and I will save myself a lot of wear and tear!

And by this I do not mean the pointing out of bloomers like Jalal's evident lack of objection to the mandir raids. I means the recurrent and depressing litany about what Jalal had been reduced to later. We all know that and it is best left unsaid if we are to derive any enjoyment at all from these rerun episodes and my takes on them.

Shyamala/Aunty

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala



IN FACT IT WAS THE OTHER WAY ROUND MANDY

JALAL WAS PURPOSELY SHOWN CRUEL AND RUTHLESS SO THAT JODHA COULD REFORM HIM WITH LORIS LET N LAP, AND HER BHAASHANS

COZ IF U SEE SO MANY OTHER MEDIUMS FROM WHERE WE LEARN ABOUT AKBAR, THERE ARE NO REFERENCES TO HIS BEING CRUEL AT ALL

SO THIS WAS A SPECIAL EKTA BRAND AKBAR 😆

Edited by sashashyam - 9 years ago
Sabdabhala thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
SHYAMALA AUNTY, KAAN PAKAD KAR MAAFI ON BEHALF OF ALL OF US 😆

FROM NOW ON THERE SHALL BE NO LAMENTING WHATSOEVER, ITS A PROMISE, EVEN THOUGH JODHA GOES HOARSE WITH HER BHAASHANS OR EXHAUSTS HER LEP SUPPLY


HUM UFF TAK NAHI KARENGE


ON A SERIOUS NOTE, AUNTY, SINCERE APOLOGIES. THERE WILL DEF BE NO MORE LAMENTING. YOU MAY PLS CONTINUE


QUOTE=sashashyam]NOTICE, TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!!

Look, if you young people do not stop lamenting about lep, lap and loris, plus bhaashans, I am going to call a halt to these posts. I am tired of the same old rona dhona being dragged in no matter how often I request that you take these old episodes as is. If this is all you intend to do, you can do it without me. It is a good bit of strain for me to do these posts, and I will save myself a lot of wear and tear!

And by this I do not mean the pointing out of bloomers like Jalal's evident lack of objection to the mandir raids. I means the recurrent and depressing litany about what Jalal had been reduced to later. We all know that and it is best left unsaid if we are to derive any enjoyment at all from these rerun episodes and my takes on them.

Shyamala/Aunty

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala



IN FACT IT WAS THE OTHER WAY ROUND MANDY

JALAL WAS PURPOSELY SHOWN CRUEL AND RUTHLESS SO THAT JODHA COULD REFORM HIM WITH LORIS LET N LAP, AND HER BHAASHANS

COZ IF U SEE SO MANY OTHER MEDIUMS FROM WHERE WE LEARN ABOUT AKBAR, THERE ARE NO REFERENCES TO HIS BEING CRUEL AT ALL

SO THIS WAS A SPECIAL EKTA BRAND AKBAR 😆

Edited by Sabdabhala - 9 years ago
harrybird thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: sashashyam


Hello Aunty,
Hope you are getting better & better...Pleasantly surprised by your daily episode analysis...
Thank you so much...We can't have enough of you ( though we had enough of JA ) !!! 😆

I am going to watch select episodes of JA...But I will definitely read all your post ! 😃

Jodha Akbar 1: Sound and Fury

Folks,

Here I am again, right at the beginning of a series that I had promised myself I would not touch again. Famous last words!😉

Thanks Aunty for breaking your promise 😆

Hope you continue to do the same in future as well 😉

I must confess that when I watched it on June 18, 2013, Om Puri and his Jalal = Jallad ranting got on my nerves so much that I detested the whole episode. Why No.1, I detested No.2 as well, and almost dropped out then itself. However, I thought I should wait at least till the end of the week, which was only of 4 days as the show opened on a Tuesday. By then, I was fascinated by this young man and his Jalal, especially after the searing bitterness he brought to his scene with his estranged mother Hamida Bano, and I stayed. '

Which was a great piece of luck for me, for I would not have missed Rajat's Jalal for anything. Or the very large number of delightful friends I have made in this forum!

Yep...delightful friends 😊

few sensible ones like... & the rest driving you mad ... like me ! 😃


We are indeed lucky to have you as our friend Aunty ! Thank you for putting up with us all !!!

Anyway, enough of all this, and here goes!

Roohon ki baatein: The voices were softer than at any other time in such scenes shown later, and Jalal's was almost unrecognizably gentle. His Jodha, without the Begum, pleased me inordinately, as also that, in a charming contrast with his irritating habit later, he does not add Jodha Begum in every sentence he utters, as if he was in danger of forgetting her name!😉

Exactly my thoughts Aunty...But I loved this soft husky voice of RT ! 😳

There is a lovely, throwaway line from Jalal next, Tum to khudh ko aaine mein dekh rahi ho! It has deep, romantic implications, for she has come to see him, but now she looks in her mirror. Where she sees, not herself, but him, for he is part of her, indeed more. He is woven into the warp and woof of her being, and as Harry Potter when he looks into the Mirror of Erised, Jodha looks into her aaina, and she sees her heart's deepest desire, Jalal. It is an intensely moving line, but I wonder how many who watched it really grasped its true significance.

Definitely not me...& the director of JA as well ! 😆

The Jalal as Jallad ranting: But then Jalal has to be shown cutting down foes right and left instead of embracing them with daya aur prem. For Om Puri is here bent on asserting that Jalal is a beraham yoddha, a bloodthirsty zaalim aur vaishi ( the CVs apparently forgot to add darinda!😉) and that hisshamsheer ne khoon ka swaad chaka, as though the shamsheers of all the warriors seen in Hindustan till then were raised on a milk diet. 😡

Even after that magnificent scene between Bairam Khan and Jalal, when the shamsheer is ceremonially handed over to the boy, Om Puri is at it again, with his lament about the zeher that he accuses Bairam Khan of having bharofied into the young Jalal's ragein, ki uski soch mein insaniyat ki koyi keemat nahin thi. And then he begins to talk of Jalal nahin Jallad, jiski waqt ke saath kroorta badne lagi thi... By this time, I was close to gnashing my teeth, and I could see why I could not stand this episode on June 18, 2013. 😡

However, since at this point the brooding young Murad-to-be, perched on a huge pedestal in the middle of nowhere like a statue, had been replaced by apna Rajat, with his handsome face and arrogant sneer, no one, at least none of the ladies, would have lent an ear to what Puri was babbling😆. Which would have been all for the best!😉



Bang on Aunty !!!

Who cares what Om puri says when RT was onscreen with his million dollar smirk ! 😳


LOL !!! 😆 😆 😆


I was like this ☺️☺️☺️ & my entire family was like this 😡 😡 😡



Bairam Khan: Naved Aslam is an excellent actor, whether as DK in Pavitra Rishta,as Peter, Sultan Mirza's right hand man in Once upon a time in Mumbai, or now. His Bairam Khan is as much, or more, a triumph of casting as of acting. He looks the role, and in comparison, the one in the film (blessedly very soon disposed of) was ludicrous. As he intones:

Tum soorma ho Jalal.. Fateh karna tumhara mazhab... Yeh shamsheer tumhari baandi.. Sultanat tumhari chahat...Beraham khauff tumhari shoharat..Fateh kar lo is mulq ko! ,

he almost gave me goose pimples. Even the yoddha ke seene mein dil nahin hota mantra,which makes its debut here, could not irritate me! Bairam Khan's narrow face, with its deep-set, lambent eyes, is imbued with one fierce and unwavering obsession, Mughal rule over all of Hindustan, thru fear and force. He is wrong, of course, for no land this vast can be ruled for long by fear and force, but if it was a failing, it was in its way a magnificent one!

I totally agree with you Aunty. 👍🏼

I had interacted with Naved Aslam, a couple of times in the past. He is not only a terrific actor but also an humble human being. He would be pleased to read this ! 😃

Kabootar aa, aa, aa: This part was as ludicrous the second time around as it was at the first showing. But how on earth does Jodha, who is clearly a female, 16th century version of Usain Bolt, follow the fall trajectory of the wounded pigeon? And then, when she releases it, it takes off as if it was not in the least hurt!😉

16th century Usain Bolt ? 🤣 🤣 🤣

Sujamal scores: Of the Jodha-Sukanya spatting, the less said the better. But I liked the tulabhar scene, and the subtle, double significance of Sujamal's gift. Firstly, Saraswati trumped Lakshmi, and secondly, Sujamal trumped all the rest! 👏 👏 👏

Totally dehydrated...First Jalal, then Sujamal ! 😛 😛 😛

Oops ! sorry Aunty...got carried away !


Oh Lord, see how, long this has become! Bye for now, folks!

We Love you for this ! Thank you so much !!!

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

Edited by harrybird - 9 years ago
ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: sashashyam

NOTICE, TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!!

Look, if you young people do not stop lamenting about lep, lap and loris, plus bhaashans, I am going to call a halt to these posts. I am tired of the same old rona dhona being dragged in no matter how often I request that you take these old episodes as is. If this is all you intend to do, you can do it without me. It is a good bit of strain for me to do these posts, and I will save myself a lot of wear and tear!

And by this I do not mean the pointing out of bloomers like Jalal's evident lack of objection to the mandir raids. I means the recurrent and depressing litany about what Jalal had been reduced to later. We all know that and it is best left unsaid if we are to derive any enjoyment at all from these rerun episodes and my takes on them.

Shyamala/Aunty



shyamala, agree! and your wish is our command! it will not happen again and please all lets keep the discussions pertaining to the episodes only!
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Jodha Akbar 3: Cynicism abounding

Folks,

I loved this episode for the sheer, bare-faced and bare-knuckled cynicism that pervaded it from start to finish. And this was not just at the Jalal-Bairam Khan end, though the best parts were there.

Registan ka gulab: First, there is Jalal, knocking a good seven soldiers flat as usual during his jungi riyaaz (in the brown outfit that we came to know so well), lending half an ear to the babblings of the Jodha ka diwaana. This last was bizarre, for no common sipahi in the Mughal forces would have dared to unload such stuff on the Shahenshah if he valued his sar.

Nor could one readily grasp where this chap got to know about her makhmali twacha & lacheela badan long distance😉, for if he had come close enough to her to make out these mind-blowing attributes, he would have been dead!

Clearly this clumsily worked out interlude was meant to reinforce the Amer ki pukar that will soon take over Jalal's zehen and drive him to take insane risks on his adventure to the heart of Amer.

The expression on Jalal's face as he slowly repeats the name that Abdul has just spoken, Jodhaa... , is amazingly evocative, as is his voice. It is as if he was rolling a particularly delicious sweet on his tongue, savouring the pleasure of things unknown.

And as for the desecration of the temples, this was standard operating procedure for all the invaders of India in those days, and I presume for the Delhi sultanates that followed. So I suppose Jalal hardly thought about the matter at this point, except inasmuch as his concern about the superior jungi kaabiliyat of the Mughal sipahis was concerned.

Let us now skip over the ek aisi prem kahani jo shamsheer ki dhaar par chale, aur payal ki jhankar ko bhulne na de. For one thing, I cannot remember even having heard Jodha's paayal ki jhankar (I would personally prefer noopur dhwani) any point of this tale of ours. 😉

Scheme of last resort: Also over the portly Bharmal's discussion, with his sons and nephew, about how to tackle the danger that now lies at the door of Amer. He is clearly besides himself with fear - the good old khauf-e-Jalal at work - and his plan of action has only one merit, that it is the scheme of last resort.

Seeing the rampant disunity that pervaded among the Rajput royalty, how Bharmal expects that a few marriages with his daughters - and he does not even have enough of them to make an impact, as there are only three!😉- will set things right and produce unity against the Mughals in a miraculous fashion boggles the mind. It is in fact far more likely to lead to more squabbling and drawing of swords about which princes are to be allied to Jodha and her two sisters!

The only merit of this sequence is that it fits in with my theme for this post. Bharmal does not even think of fighting on his own, and is instead focussing on how to get others to pull his chestnuts out of the fire, and he does not hesitate to use his daughters as bargaining chips.

Ek bar kisise uski kamzori ko cheen liya jaye: Of the two scenes that lit up this episode and made me choose this title, this one, between Bairam Khan and a devoted servitor of his, was in fact the more brutally cynical and the more chilling. Kyonki dushman se dimaagi khel khelna to phir bhi laazmi haim, par apnon se nahin.

The fact, however, is that Bairam Khan has no apne besides Jalal and his beloved Salima Begum, and all others, no matter how blind their devotion towards him, are mere pyaade to be manipulated, thru fear and blackmail, used, and then discarded without a second thought.

There is a cold desert in the innermost core of Bairam Khan's being, and he has no ability to care for another as Jalal can care for an Abdul. It is this fundamental difference between their basic natures, coupled with Bairam Khan's increasing tendency to treat Jalal, even in public, as his supine pupil, that led to Jalal's estrangement from the Khan Baba he loved so genuinely.

I was chilled to the core as I watched the poor servitor bring his first born to be blessed by his Aaka, and noted the shocked misery on his face as he listens to his Aaka's implicit threat - Laut kar aana to hamari begum ki kalaayi ka paigham zaroor lana..- and realises the fate that awaits his beloved baby son if ek bhi choodi tooti on the 30 day journey to Agra.

Bairam Khan looks far more maniacal here than Jalal did during the first two episodes, and far more terrifying. Zulm ki inteha ho to aisi. And his faithful pupil watches him, eyes narrowed in concentration as he asks Kya hoga, Khan Baba, agar ek bhi choodi tooti to?

The answer is revealing, and encapsulates Bairam Khan' s whole philosophy of life and of control.

Nahin tootegi, Jalal. Yeh bachcha uski kamzori hai.. Ek bar kisise uski kamzori cheen liya jaye, to phir us aadmi se jo chahe karwa lo...Isi ko dimaagi taaqat kehte hain. Aur yehi khel tumhein khelna hai...

As he continues, adapting the lesson he has just given Jalal to the Rajput context, where unhein nahin, unke guroor ko khatam karna hai.., Jalal's eyes, narrowed in close attention, change their expression. Slowly, the single-minded concentration is replaced by sardonic amusement as the familiar, sneering half smile twists his mouth.

My heart was wrung by this infinitely sad tale of the deliberate betrayal of loyalty and faith, and the expression in the eyes of that baby's father haunted me long after the episode had ended.

Dimaagi taaqat ki hadein: Yes, this is a dimaagi taaqat, but what Bairam Khan does not know, and thus cannot teach his pupil, is that when a man is desperate enough, snatching his kamzori from him might not result in slavish obedience out of fear, but in open and murderous rebellion.

In the end, large bodies of men cannot be subjugated and ruled for long out of fear alone. They need to have a stake in the structure of governance, and this can come only if they feel safe and protected by their rulers. Without such a sense of belonging and security, there is none so dangerous as the man with nothing to lose.

The contrast between Bairam Khan's ruthlessly cynical, and eventually faulty doctrine, and Akbar's single-minded devotion to the welfare of his awaam could not be sharper. Which is why Akbar was Akbar, whereas Bairam Khan was only a footnote to history.

Zindagi ya mohabbat?: The real brilliance of this last scene lay not in what Bairam Khan pontificated on (abandoning, for once, his quick fix of sar kalamofying!) in the end, Isi tarah humein unka sar jukhana hai.. The principle it reinforced was after all the same as in the earlier choodi scene.

The whole creepy segment, of Jalal apparently intending to exercise his droit de seigneur* by seizing that hapless woman, stood out at two levels.

NB: The droit de seigneur, or the right of the feudal lord, refers to the medieval European custom of any pretty bride being sent to spend her wedding night with the feudal lord, an arrangement to which the husband dared not voice any objection,

Firstly, it was a kind of power-point display of acting by Rajat, as he forces the husband, at knife point, to abandon his wife to her fate in order to save his own skin. The eyes look, not angry, not even threatening, but coldly calculating. Their focus is eagle-eyed as Jalal seeks to assess: At which point will this man break? And break he does, as Jalal laughs his mirthless laugh of triumphant certitude, and Bairam Khan applauds him for a lesson well learnt on how to subjugate the Rajput enemy by breaking, not him but his pride.

The bitterness of the soul: But secondly, and far more interesting, it is a cri de coeur ( cry from the supposedly non-existent heart) of Jalal against the very concept of mohabbat, which drives him to exasperated rage. This stands out in his angry words: Gair zaroori mohabbat ki khatir kitna kuch.. Samajh nahin aata ki mohabbat tumhari zindagi par raaj kaise karti hai?...and he kicks the man to the ground in ferocious contempt.

He wants to demean the very idea of mohabbat, whence his sneering comments to the woman as he tells her to go back apne pati ke pas ( not shauhar?), ek aisa insaan jo tumhari izzat bachane ka jigar bhi nahin rakta... Then the frightening transit of the knife point, with slow deliberation, from her wrist to her maang.. as he speaks of what really riles him.. Aur sochte rehna.. jis mohabbat se tum donon jude huye ho, asal mein us jazbat ki keemat kya hai? As far as the cowardly husband was concerned, nothing. And this is reflected in the tragic desolation in the eyes of the wife.

But that is not what is important. What is important is what this scene reveals about Jalal's bitterness towards the very idea of love. A bitterness rooted in what he sees as his abandonment by his parents, and especially by his mother, in his childhood and boyhood. Not all the protection and caring he gets from his Khan Baba and his Badiammi could, it seems, make up for this sense of not being wanted, not being his parents' first priority. A mistaken sense of neglect, maybe, but it is none the less real for all that.

It is the same bitterness that, in the scene between Jalal and his mother Hamida Bano that is due very soon, is so intense that it sears the screen.

Ok, folks, alvida till tomorrow!

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

ghalibmirza thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
unreserved on pg20😊
Edited by ghalibmirza - 9 years ago
Shah67 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago

Sandhya,

The thing is when the temple incident was told to Jalal by the sipahi, the seriousness did not resonate with him. He actually got the severity of the situation when he heard it from the victim herself. is it not that way so many times?
He was told about the looting on the fly and at the same time the beauty and bravery of the Ameri princess was being described. For a hot blooded young man guess which report stayed and which was promptly shoved to the back of his sharp brain?
The incident with Atga: I do not consider this a blooper at all. Think about it, Jalal is a young king who has truly started ruling his kingdom just a few months ago. Till then he was just a nominal head, no control over anything. He is still learning, stumbling.
Yes, he was told about the temple incident but so casually while he was right in the middle of the sword practice but that does not mean that he knows that these kinds of things are done routinely by his soldiers under his name. He is slowly discovering things that he had no clue about till BK was alive.
He now understands why the very people he has set out to rule have so much hatred for him. and that's why the concern I think.
And the "pretend serious" was just tongue in cheek. I do not question Jalal's genuineness in the temple at all.
Devki
Edited by devkidmd - 9 years ago
Rashmi81 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
Yet again a fantastic review Shymalaji .Loved it 👏.Thanks for your PM.

Yup ,even I was confused by the tag line of "payal ki jhanakar and talwar ki dhaar." As this one suits Bajirao Mastani's lovestory a bit more.
And that soldier's such a long description of Amer ki shehezadi was funny enough as if he was Amer's PR agent than a Mughal soldier .
And yes Jalal in initial episodes was like our Pune's "Chitale's bakarwadi" ,spicy but irresistible.And Jo too was sweet .
One thing if you notice is that ,HB had white streak in her hair initially ,which disappeared completely after Jo's entry .Maybe Dabur keshkala started sponsoring later on.
And how we miss Abdul .I even missed Pinaaz begum as she too disappeared suddenly .She would have added some spice in harem drama as she never shared good vibes with Ruku .😉
Again ,it was my pleasure reading your takes again and will look forward for more.
Edited by Rashmi81 - 9 years ago

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