Book or Shiva- Rudra's choice of shiva over book- An analysis

shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#1
Last Thursday we saw the Garud Pramukh taking the decision to save thousands of people over and above his father. This week we again saw Garud Pramukh pushed to another decision. If he wants Shiva, he has to give the book to Nagas.
And indeed this time Rudra chooses Shiva over and above the book. Dr Rao says if it was Shiva he would have given life, but not the book.
This is where I tell Shiva and Rudra differ. Shiva gives importance to material over people, protection of material becomes important over protection of self and the people near to him. Amrit ki Raksha is important, but no measure taken to protect the Rakshak who will protect Amrit. This is exactly the reason he ends up in captivity and gets tortured. The knowledge people are important over and above material is yet to dawn on him completely. It is not that he doesn't respect people. He does, but his priority somehow ends up in protecting material things like book, Amrit etc..
For Rudra protection of Rakshak comes first, because he feels if all the Rakshak are together Amrit can be protected. Last week also he tells they all have to come back alive. Yesterday also he decides to go alone, but his team concerned about his safety is planning to protect him without his knowledge.
Rudra evokes trust, there are people willing to lay down life for him, because he is willing to put his life at risk for them. And in the end you need people to accomplish things. Materials like books is only a means to achieve it. They are needed , but they are not over and above the right people.
Rudra feels if he has Shiva, through him whatever knowledge in that book the Garud team can have or atleast as a team they can work together to get the right info. But having the book and no Shiva they are left with little means to interpret those books.
So Rudra once again rises above the ordinary in making choices in difficult situation. And I also liked the fact after making decision, he raises his concern with MB who adequately guides him and gives him confidence to go ahead.

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#2
My dear Shruthi,

What a snazzy new ID photo! Very nice.

Now for your post. It is well argued, lucid and coherent, especially the part @blue. I know that you have been saying this from Day 1. I agree with you in the main, but with some reservations.

I do not think that Shiva's acts of omission are due to his valuing things over people, or that Rudra's latest decision is a choice of people over things.

It is more a question of different assessments as to how the garuds can prevail in the end, and what they will need to be able to do so. This, given that they are facing a chicken or egg sort of puzzle, is a very difficult assessment to make, for whichever path they choose, they are likely to go wrong.

Before I get to that, I must note that I can also understand Rao's serious reservations about letting the nagas have the two Books. I do not think he believes that once they are gone, Rudra, for all his almost casual confidence that he will be able to get them back again, will really be able to do so.

I do not believe it either; Dansh is not Greyerson, to be beaten up and bullied into letting Rudra take the First Book. Though I was surprised at how keen Dansh is that Rudra should not be able to track them down thru his Garuda Locator.

So once the Books are gone for good, what would be use of Shivanand on his own? Probably nothing.

To my mind, Rudra is taking a calculated gamble this time, of getting the brains trust of the garuds back, which he knows is vital for their mission. He believes that then, if they can get the Two Books back, well and good, but even if not, he is confident that Shivanand can cobble something together from his memory that will help them protect the amrit.

What he forgets is that Shivanand has never seen the First Book, and can thus have no memory of its contents to fall back upon in its absence. So, if the garuds get Shivanand back without the books, they will be in the same situation as they are now: facing a dead end.


Nor can Rudra be sure that the snaky Dansh will actually hand over Shivanand once he has the Two Books, though in his arrogant shortsightedness, he might well do so, assuming that the Books would be sufficient by themselves and Shivanand will not be needed. But if the naga guru takes a look at the Books, he will immediately reach the same conclusion as Rao, and warn Dansh against letting Shivanand go.

If that happens, what then? Rudra will be minus the Books and minus the brains trust as well, and he will have to fight it out in hostile terrain, and on his own.

Coming to Shivanand, he seems at times to be unbelievably dumb, and that is not necessarily because he values the material things, like the Books, over the rakshaks. It is more because he has no imagination, especially as to what hostile forces would be doing and what they are capable of.

In 1989, he does not have the good sense to anticipate the virulent hostility of the 'Veshes and take some precautions to protect his family and himself. He goes around with his kid on his shoulders as if he had not a care in the world, and he ends up in hell on earth for 24 long years, with his family scattered and his home destroyed.

Now, after he realises that with the naga poison, the nagas too have arrived at the Mahakumbh, what does he do? Does he think of protecting Rudra or himself? No. Instead, he goes and sits at the Sangam to do the Mahamrityunjaya yagna because his mother wants him to do that. It never occurs to him to tell her how dangerous the situation is and how short of time they are, and act to protect them all, his family and the garuds.

Even after he hears Daadi's cry of appeal, and Punnu goes off to investigate, what does Shivanand do once the yagna is over and all the others have departed? He does not go into hiding and try to find out what is happening. Instead, he skulks behind thee boats on the open beach, babbling that his fear that the nagas had arrived was correct, and th Book should never be allowed to fall into their hands. It is pure distilled folly, no more. No wonder he is grabbed at once, and lands back in hell,only an even worse one this time, leaving his fellow garuds between the Devil and the deep sea.

So, to my mind, one cannot say that Shivanand is wrong because he values thing over people, and Rudra is right because he values people over things. He can be just as wrong as Shivanand was earlier. But to do him justice, Rudra is now in a horrible bind, and he has to decide one way or the other for the buck stops with him. And he makes his choice.

Since this is not real life, we know that he will prevail in the end. Not many leaders have that luxury!

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

Last Thursday we saw the Garud Pramukh taking the decision to save thousands of people over and above his father. This week we again saw Garud Pramukh pushed to another decision. If he wants Shiva, he has to give the book to Nagas.

And indeed this time Rudra chooses Shiva over and above the book. Dr Rao says if it was Shiva he would have given life, but not the book.

This is where I tell Shiva and Rudra differ. Shiva gives importance to material over people, protection of material becomes important over protection of self and the people near to him. Amrit ki Raksha is important, but no measure taken to protect the Rakshak who will protect Amrit. This is exactly the reason he ends up in captivity and gets tortured. The knowledge people are important over and above material is yet to dawn on him completely. It is not that he doesn't respect people. He does, but his priority somehow ends up in protecting material things like book, Amrit etc..
For Rudra protection of Rakshak comes first, because he feels if all the Rakshak are together Amrit can be protected. Last week also he tells they all have to come back alive. Yesterday also he decides to go alone, but his team concerned about his safety is planning to protect him without his knowledge.

Rudra evokes trust, there are people willing to lay down life for him, because he is willing to put his life at risk for them. And in the end you need people to accomplish things. Materials like books is only a means to achieve it. They are needed , but they are not over and above the right people.
Rudra feels if he has Shiva, through him whatever knowledge in that book the Garud team can have or atleast as a team they can work together to get the right info. But having the book and no Shiva they are left with little means to interpret those books.
So Rudra once again rises above the ordinary in making choices in difficult situation. And I also liked the fact after making decision, he raises his concern with MB who adequately guides him and gives him confidence to go ahead.

Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#3
Nice take Shymaladi. Especially I liked you telling Shiva lacks imagination. Yes I agree to that. Maybe my choice of words didn't come rightly but I am so telling something similar to that. He has the knowledge, but lacks application or in other words when to apply what. Whereas Rudra as you said is gambling by giving Shiva more priority. I mean in a situation he is choosing or I would rather say acting with the knowledge he has at that point.
Whereas if you look at Shiva irrespective of the knowledge action is missing in him. 1989 I can still forgive, ok he didn't know the risk. But now even after the experience he is unable to set priorities, take the right decisions. He is not firm when it needs to be. I guess I had written also Shiva should have put his foot down and send all non-Garuds to safety, irrespective of what Dadi said or did. That should have been his first and foremost step. I had said earlier also instead of showing him as this dumb it would have been good if they had showed him a failure due to some misjudgment. But alas script failed there.
Yes Garud needs books. Actually the books look like that 3 things Dumbledore gave Harry and co. Snitch, deluminator and the " Beedle and the Bard". 3 of them having no clue on what to do with them and finally the answers emerging to them at a later point. I still remember poor Hermoine reading that book end to end multiple times to get some clues and Ron flashing the deluminator and Harry trying to open the snitch. 😃
Coming to without books it will be a problem .I felt there is something beyond those books. Dr Rao tells first one has questions and second one answers. So which one Shiva had seen , is it the question one or the answer one. Because remember that MB told secret of Amrit is with Lupt Saraswati. The antarvahini. That means with the knowledge of first book even without the second book the Garuds can reach Amrit is what I feel, because from whatever is in the first book which Shiva knows, there is knowledge inside Rudra if the right intrapretation of that one book comes to him. That's why MB supported Rudra's decision. Whereas Nags even with the books might miss the analytical mind to decipher the right info.
Note that Dr Rao also tells the answers are hidden, that means right interpretation is important. Not the theory but the actual application, which I don't think our dear Nag Pramukh anyways is capable of.
Edited by shruthiravi - 10 years ago
Swetha-Sai thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#4
^ Very well explained by u, Shruthi and Shyamala di! 👏
appukrish thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#5

Good analysis and thoughts. Sure Shivanand did not act at the right time and landed himself in captivity. He did not get the gravity of the danger surrounding him in 1989 and even this time when he had pointers. He just thought having all Garuds together would suffice, and totally underestimated the power of the nagas.

Yesterday MB said that Amrit ka gyan Ma Saraswati hai, aur Saraswati abhi lupt hai. When the time is right and when necessary, the hidden inner knowledge will emerge. She also says when everyone's thinking stops, His thinking will rise. And she will be the one to guide him. For Prof, Shivanad and others the books seem like the only way because they have not thought otherwise. Rudra being the Garud Pramukh and Maha Rakshak since several yug, another reason why the right knowledge will emerge from within him.

The one book that Shivanand had, he knows it thoroughly so even if it is gone to the nagas, it would be okay because he knows whats in it.

Ofcourse as Shyamala said this is a show so hero will have both Shiva and the books in the end. Kind of like how long ago Garud gave Nagas the Amrit, yet tricked them and ran away with it, here to Rudra and co. Will end up doing something similar.
pasumarthisa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#6

I tend to agree with Shyamala ji. Its just difference in approach. The goal is saving Amrit. For everyone including Rao(?), Shivanand and Rudra.

Rudra said something important and that gives an idea of his thought process. He said we have to struggle like this to win the big war. Like lose a battle to win the war. So he has hopes on either saving the books or getting them back. So far, looks like he does not have the idea of cheating or trick Nags thereby getting Shiva and also getting to keep the books. Or maybe he is going that way.

It's interesting that Nags want Amrit and Garuds don't want it. They only want to save it from Nags. Their mission is Amrit ki Raksha and not Amrit-Prapti.

Also tend to agree with Aparna that Rudra might have the knowledge within. With the help of Shivanand. But he might do something Shivanand couldn't.
appukrish thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#7
About the tricking/cheating part, atleast none of them have that thought right now. My idea came from the fact that the Garuds were planning to put a GPS tracking system in the books so that they will know it's location etc.. So maybe once Shiva is rescued it will be Mission getting back the books.
Shivanand tells Rudra when he's young that 'knowledge that has already been imparted to you, is hidden inside you and you have to look within to find it and it will come back to you'. In this case it could be that Rudra might have the knowledge of the books (or the coding/decoding )inside him from his previous lives as a Maharakshak. That would be the only explanation I can think of..
ashred12 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#8
one thing is sure...Rudra's n Shiva's priorities r different...i do feel Rudra thinks more of ppl while Shiva thinks more of materials...but Rudra is d leader, not Shiva...n a leader thinks abt ppl first...
but i wont say Shiva is too wrong...ppl n books-amrit r imp equally...n dat is y we ve 7 garuds instead of one...each one with different responsibilities, n together as a group they do full protection of ppl n amrit, while they wont reach anywer alone...
FarhaadkiMahi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#9
good take shurti n shaymla di
rudra n shiva r similar yet diffrent like dadi said
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#10
Wow, Shruti and Shyamala, ineterstig discussion on the difference between Rudra and shiva
It's not that shiva values things above poeple, it's more that he values knowledge and believes in the purity of gyan over all else.

This I guess makes him a little unworldly wise and like all geniuses innocent of the evil in the world.

Even when the naga attack happened, he commented on how his theory that nagas would come had been validated than about finding ways and means to escape.

As for Saraswati, I guess at the end, she will chose who she reveals herself to, and it will have to be the Garudas.

Books as Shruthi has pointed out, are mere tools, they need a person with the right intellect to understand and reveal the hidden gyan and that person is shiva.

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