JAS | Eternal Love & Platonic Friendship | New Promo Discussion

RadhikaS0 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 10 years ago
#1

Hi Friends,

The present topic is based on a comment I made in the Ruqaiyyafication of Mughal Sultanat topic. I feel this topic is deserving of its own thread because this question of whether Akbar had anything more than a platonic relationship with Salima Begum is vexing us all.

Feel free to question the script, express your views, vent or otherwise release your angst and frustration here. Just no name calling, no historical debates, and no demeaning any character to glorify another.

Akbar was neither a saint nor a monk. He had a harem (never mind the size) and naturally used' it, just like most kings of that era. But, even then, many people believe that he did not have marital relations with Salima Begum, whom he only married to protect her and Rahim from the machinations of Mahamanga and her ilk after the death of Bairam Khan.

In the show, Jalal has been mostly shown to be a kind of monk who usually sleeps alone. Something inevitably happens to either make him go to Jodha or Ruq or as a result of his going to them. J This was not the case in the initial days when he used to spend most of his time with Ruqaiyya Begum.

I remember the first time Jalal was with Ruqaiyya but unable to sleep, thinking of Jodha. She had composed a poem for his to-be-born son and he was carried away by a wave of emotion by her selfless love for his baby. J

Bitter though it is, we have learnt to accept his relations with Ruq even after marriage with Jodha (though it is usually shown that he goes to Ruq on the rebound when he is angry with Jodha).

Jalal and Salima - A Platonic Relationship

We have been shown since the beginning that Jalal shares only a deep, mutually respectful friendship with Salima and nothing more than that and that both of them consider Salima to be the amanat of Bairam Khan rather than the wife of Jalal. (For this reason alone, the argument that Salima too was Jalal's wife and could have a relationship with him falls flat.)

Time and again Salima has stressed that she is happy with her memories of BK and wants JJ to be together with their pure love'. She has always shown that she considers Jodha to be her younger sister.

Suddenly turning this platonic relationship on its head and conjuring a baby out of it like a magician produces a rabbit out of his hat is like punching us in the ribs without notice. I could have understood if it had been just a momentary lapse when Jalal was most in need of comfort - more emotional than physical. Even this is hard to chew because Jalal has seen worse moments in his life and has yet maintained a respectful distance from Salima. Salima too has acted the part of a friend and a counselor but never stepped beyond those limits and acted like a wife.

Once Hamida Bano had even wondered how Salima could be so free of jealousy of Jodha!

But if the relationship between Jalal and Salima continued for a number of years during which time Jalal made Jodha go through hell for no fault of hers, rampaged Chittor for no fault of the Rajvanshis, patched up with Jodha, atoned for Chittor and had Salim and Murad, then it's very difficult to accept.

Especially for the following reasons:

1. During the separation track, Jalal slept alone in Jodha's hojra. Neither did he seek "comfort" from Salima nor did she offer him her "support".

2. During Ruq MC track, Jalal almost forced himself upon Salima in order to verify whether she was guilty of causing Ruq's MC and Salima dutifully submitted to him, as he was her lawful husband, and not out of love. Jalal could not bring himself to actually touch her because he regarded her as his foster father's widow.

3. Salima supported Jodha's condition after the twins' demise and understood her dilemma before the CHittor war and explained the same to Ruq.

4. When Jodha, busy looking after a baby Salim, asked Jalal if he had been to another wife, he replied earnestly that he could never do such a himakat.

In contrast esp to the last reason, there were these scenes that reiterated that Jalal was "seeing" other begums also even though he was in love with Jodha:

1. The first time Jodha confessed that she felt love for Jalal, she admitted that she knew he had to fulfill his relationships with his other wives but still she felt jealous to see him with another begum.

2. At the time of the harem elections, Jalal teasingly asked her if she would be able to arrange his "nights" with other begums.

3. During the SR, Jalal admitted he would have to fulfill his duty towards his other wives but she was like Radha to Kanha, and would always be his special love.

But nowhere did these scenes ever convey that Salima Begum was included among the other wives towards whom Jalal felt he had a duty to fulfill.

Some Questions

  • Why did Salima continue to have the affair with Jalal instead of trying to make him see reason and understand that both he and Jodha were equally responsible for the twins' demise and it was wrong to pin the entire blame on Jodha alone? After all, she had that power to influence him.
  • Why did Jalal continue to seek comfort in a physical relationship (it could hardly have been love!) after feeling guilty that his amorous feelings had led to Hussein's death? I would think he would be turned off physical relations for a while.
  • How could he continue to blame Jodha's feelings for him when he himself had no control over his own impulses? At least Jodha had come to him out of love and he had initiated whatever had happened between them. But why was he going to Salima?
  • How is it possible for Jodha to accept Jalal and Salima after the way they ditched her for several years and still be on good terms with them? It's one thing to be stuck with a good-for-nothing husband out of social compulsions, quite another to behave as if nothing had been amiss between them in all this time.
  • Jodha most likely knew, as we saw in earlier episodes, that Jalal continued to please his other wives. Then why did she ask him petulantly about going to another wife? After so many years of marriage, wouldn't she have resigned herself to accepting other women in Jalal's life?
  • Why did Jalal lie that he could never go to another begum?


The Relationship that was Not Intended

I think the CVs never planned to include a relationship between Jalal and Salima. It was always supposed to be platonic.

Since the Internet usually names Salima or a concubine as Murad's mother, without any proof, they may have taken it as the truth and hoped the matter would end there and no one would ask who Murad's mother was.

Side note: This is not true really. Murad was very much Jodha's son. See link. Jalal and Jodha may have given him to Salima for upbringing out of respect for her and following a Mughal custom of passing on the upbringing of royal heirs to important women in the harem. Another interesting point to note here is that both Jalal and Jodha loved Murad also equally. Akbar was heartbroken to learn of Murad's untimely and tragic death. But as per Ekta's NR, Murad is very much the neglected child who is peeved with Jalal for showering all his attention on Salim only.

Unfortunately for the CVs, everyone seems to want to know who Murad's mother is and why she has not been officially introduced till now when even Zilbahar has been given so much footage. They have been forced to admit that Salima must be Murad's mother. To prove this point, they have now thought of inventing a flashback story around it.

But they cannot continue to show Salima as the chief support of Akbar. This would nullify their theme of an epic love story between Akbar and Jodha. So they have to now also invent a separation between Akbar and Salima following Murad's birth.

Love and Polygamy

A polygamous setup is a very difficult institution to understand and portray. And to show an epic love story in such a setup requires even more research skills, historical knowledge, sensitivity, and a clear vision of the broader picture to be conveyed by the entire show rather than going episode / track wise. The CVs have messed up big time in this and have repeatedly failed to bring out the nuances of the AkDha love story in spite of Jalal's other wives or how Akbar conducted his relations with his other wives in spite of being in love with Jodha.

We, used as we are to a monogamous society, find it hard to understand how a wife could learn to live with other wives and remain devoted to her husband. We find it equally difficult to understand that a much-married man may be in love with just one woman among his harem even though he continued to fulfill his responsibilities towards his other wives. The CVs and the director are not helping us in understanding such an institution but rather using it as per their convenience to twist the story any which way. They have no idea of how to maintain consistency in relationships and characters.

It would therefore be prudent for us too to follow the story episode-wise and not think back or ahead. J


Looking ahead to your views. 😊


Update: Nov 25 2014 New Promo Discussion

Edited by RadhikaS0 - 10 years ago

Created

Last reply

Replies

291

Views

28.9k

Users

39

Likes

1.4k

Frequent Posters

Coolpree thumbnail
10th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#2

Sigh! Radhika, you are a brilliant writer. Keep Writing these posts they are a delight

you have beautifully summed up all that was going through my mind about this apparent U turn with this new Salima -Jalal relationship. You have touched on both the historical and tv show aspect perfectly. I tried very hard to post my views on this on Khushi's thread but could not do the masterful job you have done. your remarks that most explain my POV are:But if the relationship between Jalal and Salima continued for a number of years during which time Jalal made Jodha go through hell for no fault of hers, rampaged Chittor for no fault of the Rajvanshis, patched up with Jodha, atoned for Chittor and had Salim and Murad, then it's very difficult to accept.
I am posting my point of view I stated on Khushy's thread below:
I do believe you may have misunderstood me completely and this may be due to my poor writing skills especially compared to the likes of you all especially Shyamala ( love your sardonic style..usually bang on). So let me concede a few points and clarify a few things at the outset:
1. No I do not have a problem with a polygamous relationship and yes unlike most of you I have experienced this relationship closely in my friends/ family and so I do have the "maturity" to accept it 😕 with all its implications even in the 21 st century. I completely understand Akbar was in one and yes khushi he did remind Jodha of this many times
2. Reel Jodha/Paridhis character is irritating, annoying and really not very likeable for the most part. She only shines in my opinion during and right after the death of the twins, Kajri track and a few other instances. And yes she is too stiff in her romantic scenes with Jalal which is a real pity given Rajats skills.
3. Salima begum has every right to have a relationship with Akbar . It was ridiculous that she was portrayed otherwise and we know very well she was one of Akbars favourites but lets not talk about history as it really does not apply to this show. Salima begum is one of my favorites in this show and her character has been one of the most consistent so this so called Salima bashing that some of you think we are indulging in is a non starter.
4. Shyamala, Murad is adorable and I know that he was supposed to be only 9 months younger but I was given to believe he was about 2-3 years younger in the show ( I could be wrong) which brings me to the point of why on earth did the CVs show us that dialogue between J and Ja when he tells her he cant think of any one but her . Its another matter if you and me don't agree with this point of you but why lead us to believe one thing and then portray another...its these inconsistencies that I simply do not get. And this after showing that Jodha unwaveringly stood by him at Sikhri !
This brings me to my main point (phew!) : I do not have a problem with Salima- Jalal BUT I do have a problem with the purported timing when this relationship started. To me it showed Jalal in the worst possible light. It was bad enough that after that epic episode of Hassans death ( my favorite episode) the CVs illogically swung in the opposite direction with Hussein's death. Both Jodha and Jalal have been shown to be equally stupid in accepting his death as their fault. With the subsequent 3 yr separation between them they rendered JA 's journey thus far completely meaningless. and the CVs show THIS time for jalal to enter a relationship with " Khan Baba's Amanat"? How on earth does this make any sense given the story they have fed us so far.
I am a romantic at heart girls , so to me love is love whether in the 21st or 16 century. There are certain principles that hold true across the test of time. Your true Love stands by you at a time of crisis regardless of how many begums he has to go to and please. This constant love- abandonement they keep showing between the two makes a real joke of what an epic love story should be.
Anyways Peace ladies, there appear to be two very strong POVs on this forum. Its hopeless to expect any logic from this show so its better to just enjoy the show mindlessly and accept that this is Rajats show totally. All I can say is that Ekta is very lucky to have him. He is the only reason I still see some parts of this show online. He is pure eye candy 😳


Edited by Coolpree - 10 years ago
history_geek thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 10 years ago
#3

Radhika,

You said almost everything i wanted to write. What more to add here. ? . I need to think and will get back with some thoughts, though in brief.

But this post is awesome.. Perfect..!!!! One of your best so far according to me.. 👏



bokul thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Master Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 10 years ago
#4
but i guess any thing can happen in the world of NR
history_geek thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 10 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0


The Relationship that was Not Intended

I think the CVs never planned to include a relationship between Jalal and Salima. It was always supposed to be platonic.

Since the Internet usually names Salima or a concubine as Murad's mother, without any proof, they may have taken it as the truth and hoped the matter would end there and no one would ask who Murad's mother was.

Side note: This is not true really. Murad was very much Jodha's son. See link. Jalal and Jodha may have given him to Salima for upbringing out of respect for her and following a Mughal custom of passing on the upbringing of royal heirs to important women in the harem. Another interesting point to note here is that both Jalal and Jodha loved Murad also equally. Akbar was heartbroken to learn of Murad's untimely and tragic death. But as per Ekta's NR, Murad is very much the neglected child who is peeved with Jalal for showering all his attention on Salim only.

Unfortunately for the CVs, everyone seems to want to know who Murad's mother is and why she has not been officially introduced till now when even Zilbahar has been given so much footage. They have been forced to admit that Salima must be Murad's mother. To prove this point, they have now thought of inventing a flashback story around it.

But they cannot continue to show Salima as the chief support of Akbar. This would nullify their theme of an epic love story between Akbar and Jodha. So they have to now also invent a separation between Akbar and Salima following Murad's birth.





Radhika,

For this part and the research skills of the CV's. I have one comment to make here.
Some time back a letter was sent to Zee TV, about the enquiry of the storyline.

I am sorry to disclose it today, that the reply came from Zee, and was an official reply, and The reply was devoid of any major explanation.. The reply to the questions asked , had Direct picked up contents from the OLD Wikipedia Page of Mariam-Uz-Zamani. More than what was replied is KNOWN to Majority of us on the Forum..😕

I hope this clarifies about their research skills. I really do not THINK that NOW, the original set of researchers work with BT..!!. 😳 Esp. after noticing the recent views about their EPIC Salim-Anarkali Love Story.


SindhuMenon thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: history_geek





Radhika,

For this part and the research skills of the CV's. I have one comment to make here.
Some time back a letter was sent to Zee TV, about the enquiry of the storyline.

I am sorry to disclose it today, that the reply came from Zee, and was an official reply, and The reply was devoid of any major explanation.. The reply to the questions asked , had Direct picked up contents from the OLD Wikipedia Page of Mariam-Uz-Zamani. More than what was replied is KNOWN to Majority of us on the Forum..😕

I hope this clarifies about their research skills. I really do not THINK that NOW, the original set of researchers work with BT..!!. 😳 Esp. after noticing the recent views about their EPIC Salim-Anarkali Love Story.




Thanks for trying though Abhay. Now we know JA is 98% fiction and 2% history
SindhuMenon thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#7
Beautifully written Radhika. Thank u so much...👏👏
abhi786 thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 10 years ago
#8
Radhika wonderful post.. I don't see any love story in JA, just CVS are giving one lolipop scene of JJ daily... JA is now totally fiction, me don't care what they show as JJ love story is end for me neither I do care what Jalaal did or what JO does, as both JJ character as weak...
cocoatree thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 10 years ago
#9
After a long time Radhika.. It's beautifully penned down..
I don't know what was their actual status between Salima and Jalal, in a gap of years.. Because cv's blending historical facts for their own sakes in the form of fiction.. When it comes to cv's, they are taking advantage in dumping historical figures and facts..
anael24 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
#10
i think through all the journey of ja...such questions rised countless times...and it has been a very tough journey to reply to all these questions..explain them in details and convincing the person...
unfortunately cvs are not reasonable and surely not intelligent...no offemce but they are really stuuppidd!
thnks fr writin,explainin,convincin

Related Topics

Jodha Akbar thumbnail

Posted by: talesmith · 3 months ago

Hi all! Some of you may know me already or maybe not - I had posted a modern OS named Serendipity on this forum some months ago. Here again with...

Expand ▼
Jodha Akbar thumbnail

Posted by: Shinning_Stuti · 5 years ago

Prologue: How it happens when both the hearts fall for each other madly without knowing each other? He is the emperor of the great Mughal...

Expand ▼
Jodha Akbar thumbnail

Posted by: Blacktulip · 5 months ago

Finally, I got it out of my head after months.. hope you like it....

Expand ▼
Jodha Akbar thumbnail

Posted by: Blacktulip · 1 years ago

It has been more than 8 years probably since I made one .. hope you like it....

Expand ▼
Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".