'Mahabharat- Different Versions -Perspectives'

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sayee

@sayee

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#471

Here is the book review link of google books u can check it here...

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Dr Sweety Shinde

@DrShindeSweety

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#472

Originally posted by: sayee
Has anybody read this book

Yudhishthir and Draupadi by Pavan K Verma

this book actually justifies why Yudhishthir staked his brothers & wife.
If anybody wants I can give u the jist😳

Gulzar's translation of the same is available in a bilingual English/Hindi.

The book takes just one scene from MB.

The Yaksha is actually Yama, Y's father in disguise. He wants to test Y's grasp of knowledge , so he prevents anyone from partaking water from his lake until all his questions are answered. Y's younger brothers disregard him, as they have come in search of water for Draupadi. They fall dead by the lake.

Then Y arrives and follows a Q & A, whereby Y impresses his father. Y is allowed to bring alive any one brother and he chooses Nakul, since at least one each of Kunti & Madri's sons would live.

Finally all four brothers are restored back to life, as a reward for Y's generosity.

Finally Draupadi realizes the dependability(???) of Y and then follows a passionate night by the lake, when she atlast responds and accepts Y. (This last part is the author's addition)

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Ashwini_D

@Ashwini_D

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#473

Originally posted by: sayee
The gist...

On the first night of their marriage when Yudhishthir went close to Draupadi, he felt Draupadi was not happy, her limbs were lifeless she had surrendered to him but not with her will, her mind still had Arjun, it had hurt him very deeply, therefore when the invite came for dice game it came as both opportunity & threat. Threat of Shakuni's evil plans & opportunity to prove Draupadi that he was as good as Arjun, therefore he accepted the invite with a hope that he will win & then Draupadi will find him worthy of her love, but after his first stake he realized he was wrong.

I think of all the characters in the MB universe, the most intriguing for me are Yudisthir and Vidur. Here are two characters who may come across as bland, insipid to cursory readers of the epic, reminding some of the moral lessons that we are subjected to since childhood, only to discover as grown ups how far from the truth these moral attitudes are. But there is more to it than meets the eye.

For me Yudisthir has always been the most important character in the epic, considering how it is he who achieves 'Jaya' in the end. I will not draw any conclusions from the above POV, but I have seen Yudisthir's behaviour as something that cannot be attributed to simplistic factors. Of course the above might just be a snippet of what the book is saying, so I'll reserve my judgement till I read it.

Edited by Ashwini_D - 11 years ago

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Ashwini_D

@Ashwini_D

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#474

Originally posted by: srishtisingh
thanks ashwi for explaining.I even downloaded book by doniger to c what she has written. but there is something which I like abt our religion being fluid still many times I am unable to avoid my displeasure when our culture or religion is shown faulty! may b that's my prejudice. I by no mean am an extremist but this thing does come in my mind why fingers are always pointed towards hinduism ? is it because hindu people really don't mind? I like discussions abt hinduism but I am unable to abandon my bias, and may b that's one of my shortcomings. but this is the reason because of which though I am not really a religious person but whenever someone does point fingers at our dieties I feel upset!

I would advise you not to take the book too seriously, several reviews of the book I read say that it contains certain factual inaccuracies regarding how it represents certain historical events.

Edited by Ashwini_D - 11 years ago

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Ashwini_D

@Ashwini_D

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#475

Originally posted by: srishtisingh
thanks ashwi for explaining.I even downloaded book by doniger to c what she has written. but there is something which I like abt our religion being fluid still many times I am unable to avoid my displeasure when our culture or religion is shown faulty! may b that's my prejudice. I by no mean am an extremist but this thing does come in my mind why fingers are always pointed towards hinduism ? is it because hindu people really don't mind? I like discussions abt hinduism but I am unable to abandon my bias, and may b that's one of my shortcomings. but this is the reason because of which though I am not really a religious person but whenever someone does point fingers at our dieties I feel upset!

I can understand on a personal level why certain things would hurt your sentiments. I myself have gone through that. But must 'hurt sentiments' be taken so seriously that it curbs free speech altogether?

Also, this phenomenon is not restricted to Hinduism alone, urban liberals and the literary fraternity had registered their protest when Salman Rushdie's book 'The satanic verses' had been banned in India, on grounds alleging that it hurt Muslim sentiments.

Edited by Ashwini_D - 11 years ago

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#476

Here's a citation on selection of commander in chief after Bhishma's exit from the war (from CE)

" Duryodhana said, Bhishma was our commander. He was senior and valiant. He was well-endowed with learning, possessed knowledge of weapons and had all the qualities. O Karna! He obtained great fame by slaying large numbers of the enemy. The great-souled one fought well for ten days and protected us. He performed extremely difficult deeds and is ascending to heaven. Who do you think should be our commander after him? Without a leader, the army cannot last for an instant in battle, like a boat in the water without a boatman. Just as a boatman steers a boat, a charioteer controls a chariot, a commander ensures that an army is not led astray. You are the best in battle. Look at all the great-souled ones among us and find a commander who can succeed Shantanu's son. O venerable one! Whoever you mention will be accepted by all us as our commander in this battle.' " Karna replied, All these supreme among men are great-souled. But we should not examine details about who should be our commander. All of them have been born in noble lineages. All of them know how to withstand onslaught. All of them possess strength, valour and intelligence. They are grateful and modest and do not retreat from battle. However, all of them cannot be the leader at the same time. There must be only one, who possesses special qualities. All these rival one another. If one is specially honoured, the others will be dispirited. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! It is clear that they will not fight. Among all us warriors, the preceptor is aged and is our senior. Drona, supreme among those who wield all weapons, should be made the commander. He is supreme among those who know the brahman. He is unassailable. If Drona is made the commander, who can stand against that? He is the equal of Shukra and Angiras in his learning. 24 O descendant of the Bharata lineage! When Drona advances into battle, there is not a single warrior among all these kings who will not follow him. He is foremost among all the leaders of soldiers and among those who wield weapons. He is foremost in intelligence. O king! He is also your preceptor. O Duryodhana! Quickly make the preceptor the commander, just as, wishing to defeat the asuras in battle, the immortals chose Kartikeya.'" Sanjaya said, "Drona was standing in the midst of the army. On hearing Karna's words, King Duryodhana spoke these words to him. Because of the superiority of your varna, the lineage in which you have been born, your learning, your age, your intelligence, your valour, your capacity, your invincibility, your knowledge of artha and law, your austerities, your gratitude and your superiority in all the qualities, I do not think there is anyone among all the kings who is your equal as a protector. Protect us, like Vasava among all the gods. O supreme among brahmanas! With you as our leader, we wish to vanquish the enemy. You are like Kapali among the Rudras, Pavaka among the Vasus, Kubera among the yakshas, Vasava among the Maruts, Vasishtha among the brahmanas, the sun among those with energy, Dharma among the ancestors, the king of the waters among the Adityas, the moon among stellar bodies and Ushanas among the sons of Diti. 25 You are the foremost among leaders of soldiers. Therefore, be our commander.

Debroy, Bibek (2012-06-01). Mahabharata: Vol. 5 (p. 502). Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition.

Essentially, Dury asked for Karna's advice and Karna recommended Drona. There was no drama like the've showed on SP version

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#477

Here is CE's version of Abhimanyu's death: I will post it in small parts so it's easier to read

1. Yudi asked Abhi to break the Chakravyuh:

Having formed the view that Drona was incapable of being resisted by anyone else, Yudhishthira imposed that heavy and unbearable burden on Subhadra's son. He was not inferior to Vasudeva. His energy was superior to that of Phalguna. And he 26 spoke these words to Abhimanyu, the slayer of enemy heroes. O son! 27 Act so that Arjuna does not censure us on return. 28 There is no one amongst us who knows how to penetrate the chakra vyuha. O mighty-armed one! With the exception of you, Arjuna, Krishna and Pradyumna, 29 there is no fifth person who can penetrate the chakra vyuha.

2. Bhima reassured him that the other Pandavs would follow and help Abhimanyu:

" Bhima said, I will follow you and so will Dhrishtadyumna, Satyaki, the Panchalas, the Kekayas, the Matsyas and all the Prabhadrakas. Once you have shattered the vyuha, we will repeatedly enter it and slaughter the best of the warriors

3. Abhi's charioteer warned him but abhi ignored the warning:

.' On hearing these words, Abhimanyu laughed and spoke to his charioteer. O charioteer! Who is Drona? Who are these assembled kshatriyas? Even if Shakra on Airavata 32 advances in the forefront of the battle, with the masses of immortals, I will engage. Even if I were to confront my maternal uncle Vishnu, 34 the conqueror of the universe, or my father in battle, I would not be terrified.' Abhimanyu disregarded the words of the charioteer and instructed him to swiftly drive towards Drona's array.

4. Abhi penetrates the Vyuh and a fierce battle starts:

While that fearful battle raged, in Drona's sight, Arjuna's son shattered and penetrated the vyuha. The immensely strong one penetrated into the midst of the enemy and began to slaughter the foes. Phalguna's son covered the earth with the heads of the enemy.

5. An angry Dury had to be protected:

"On seeing that the army was routed by Subhadra's infinitely energetic son, Duryodhana was angered and himself advanced against Subhadra's son. On seeing that the king had returned and was advancing in the battle against Subhadra's son, Drona spoke to all the warriors. Protect the king. While we look on, the valiant Abhimanyu is killing everything that he is targeting. Do not be afraid. Swiftly attack and protect Kourava.' 41 He 42 possessed powerful and grateful well-wishers, desiring victory. Though they were terrified, those brave ones surrounded your son" Drona, Drona's son, Kripa, Karna, Kritavarma, Soubala, 43 Brihadbala, the king of Madra, Bhuri, Bhurishrava, Shala, Pourava and Vrishasena. 44 They released sharp arrows and countered Subhadra's son with that great shower of arrows.

6. Besides battling other maharathis, one of his fiercest battle happened with Karna:

He shot arrows at Karna that were capable of penetrating the body. O king! They pierced his armour and his body and penetrated the earth, like a snake entering a termite hill. Having been thus wounded by him, Karna was pained and swooned.

Duryodhana spoke to Radheya. Behold! Duhshasana has been conquered by the brave Abhimanyu. He 69 is like the sun in his energy and was slaughtering the warriors in battle. The Pandavas are advancing towards Subhadra's son, with upraised weapons.' At this, Karna became enraged. Wishing to ensure the welfare of your son, he covered the unassailable Abhimanyu with sharp arrows. In the field of battle, he pierced his followers with sharp and supreme arrows and was contemptuous of Subhadra's brave son.

Arjuna's son used sharp, broad-headed and straight-tufted arrows that had been sharpened on stone to sever the bows of the heroes and afflicted Karna. His standard and bow were severed and fell down on the ground. On seeing that Karna was confronting a hardship, Karna's younger brother stretched his firm bow and quickly advanced against Subhadra's son.

(I didn't know Karna had a younger brother who was slain by Abhi and that angered Karna further)

On seeing that his brother had been slain, Karna was overcome by grief.

The immensely illustrious Abhimanyu angrily routed them with his arrows. Karna was afflicted by Abhimanyu's many arrows.

7. Pandav army advanced to rescue Abhi but Jaidrath intervened:

"Yudhishthira, Bhimasena, Shikhandi, Satyaki, the twins, Dhrishtadyumna, Virata, Drupada and the Kekayas, Dhrishtaketu and the Matsyas angrily advanced in that battle. Those armed ones, arranged in battle formation, sought to protect him. On seeing those brave ones advance, all those on your side retreated. On seeing that the extremely large army of your son was retreating, your energetic son-in-law 78 sought to restrain them. O great king! Jayadratha, the son of the king of Sindhu, repulsed the Parthas, together with their soldiers, when they sought to protect their son. 79

8. Lakshmana and Abhi had a fierce fight also. Laksmana was killed and this angered Dury further

On beholding that they were shattered, Drona, Drona's son, Brihadbala, Kripa, Duryodhana, Karna, Kritavarma and Soubala angrily attacked Subhadra's unvanquished son. O king! Most of them were beaten back by your grandson. There was only one who had been reared in happiness. He was a child, but proud and fearless. Lakshmana 95 was extremely energetic and used his arrows and weapons to attack Arjuna's son.

It was released from his arms and severed Lakshmana's beautiful head, with an excellent nose, eyebrows and beautiful hair, and adorned with earrings. On seeing that Lakshmana had been slain, the people let out sounds of woe and lamentation. When his beloved son was brought down, Duryodhana was enraged.

9. The six maharathas that surrounded Abhi:

"Abhimanyu, the descendant of the Pandu lineage, penetrated your soldiers. He used his sharp arrows and made all the kings retreat. At this, Drona, Kripa, Karna, Drona's son, Brihadbala and Kritavarma, Hridika's son" these six rathas surrounded him.

10. Abhi pierced Karna's ears:

In the midst of the enemy, Phalguna's son used a yellow, sharp and tufted arrow to pierce Karna in his ear. "Phalguna's son once again pierced Karna in the ear with a barbed arrow. Angering him even more, he pierced him with fifty arrows. Radheya pierced the great warrior back in turn. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! Covered with arrows all over his limbs, he 107 looked extremely radiant. Extremely enraged, he caused Karna to be covered in blood. Covered with arrows and streaming blood, the brave Karna was also resplendent. Both of them were beautiful with arrows on their bodies,

11. As Abhi was invincible, Karna asked Drona for ideas to kill Abhi:

Vrisha Vaikartana Karna then spoke to Drona. 111 Before he destroys all of us, tell us how we can swiftly kill him.'

At this, oppressed by the arrows of Arjuna's son, Karna again spoke to Drona. I am oppressed by the extremely terrible and energetic arrows of the young Abhimanyu. Nevertheless, I remain stationed here. His arrows are terrible and possess the energy of the fire. They are sapping my heart now.' The preceptor smiled and spoke gently to Karna. His armour is impenetrable. He is young, swift and valiant. His father has been instructed by me on the art of donning armour. It is certain that this destroyer of enemy cities knows everything about that. 113 But with well-aimed arrows, you are capable of slicing down his bow, his bowstring, the reins of his horses and the two charioteers who guard his flanks. 114 O great archer! O Radheya! If you are capable, do this. Make him retreat and strike him subsequently. If he wields the bow, the gods and the asuras are incapable of vanquishing him. If you so wish, deprive him of his chariot and his bow.' Having heard the preceptor's words, Vaikartana Karna used his arrows to swiftly slice down the bow of the light-handed one. Bhoja 115 killed his horses and Goutama 116 the charioteers who guarded his flanks. Once his bow had been severed, the others enveloped him with a shower of arrows.

The great archers pierced him in the battle, searching for a weakness, glancing upwards and wondering, He might descend on me with the sword in his hand.' Drona severed the sword, decorated with a bejewelled handle, from his hand. Radheya used sharp arrows to cut down his supreme shield.

12. Final blow came via Duhsana's son:

" He then advanced against the chariot of Duhshasana's son and used the club to slay his horses. O venerable one! At this, Duhshasana's son was enraged and raised his club. Asking Subhadra's son to wait, he attacked him. Those two brave brothers wished to kill each other and raised their clubs against each other. They struck, like the destroyer Tryambaka 126 in earlier times. Having struck each other with the ends of their clubs, they both fell down on the ground. In the midst of that battle, those two scorchers of enemies were like Indra's standards that had been uprooted. The ratha who was Duhshasana's son, the extender of the deeds of the Kuru lineage, arose first and struck Subhadra's son on the head with the club, as he was about to get up. Because of exhaustion and because of the great force of the club, Subhadra's son, the destroyer of enemy heroes, lost his senses and fell down on the ground, unconscious. " O king! Thus, in that battle, a single one was slain by many.

Debroy, Bibek (2012-11-15). Mahabharata Vol. 6 (Penguin Translated Texts) (pp. 40-41). Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition.

I've left out a lot of details where the fight has been described in detail and other warriors are killed By Abhi

Hope this gives you all a good idea of Abhi's fight

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Srishti

@srishtisingh

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#478

Originally posted by: Ashwini_D

I can understand on a personal level why certain things would hurt your sentiments. I myself have gone through that. But must 'hurt sentiments' be taken so seriously that it curbs free speech altogether?

Also, this phenomenon is not restricted to Hinduism alone, urban liberals and the literary fraternity had registered their protest when Salman Rushdie's book 'The satanic verses' had been banned in India, on grounds alleging that it hurt Muslim sentiments.

yeah I agree nd hate when people snatch freedom of speech under pretext of hurting religious sentiments and go to extreme measures. I do feel displeasure regarding few things but it does not necessarily means I will pounce upon anyone who has different views. I mostly dislike when people go seriously overboard with maligning people faith(this current state of my mind is courtesy of fb, where I really visited so ... sites that I really wished to hurt them). leaving aside these thing I do appreciate knowledgable people rationalising many things, even though it may b much opposite to my views.but these people have sincerity and if they do give a balanced view. gen I have seen when people try to see from opposite or losing side lens they do glaze over many wrong actions of them in quest for bringing "truth". I don't know what I am writing 😛... sorry for distracting from topic

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#479

@Nandini- I love this thread because here we can discuss all versions of MB freely 😃

Edited by bheegi - 11 years ago

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Sukanya_Datta

@Sukanya_Datta

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#480

An interesting article:

Brahmastra: Nuclear weapon of ancient times
As described in a number of the Puranas and Mahabharat, it was considered the deadliest weapon. It was said that when the Brahmastra was discharged, there was neither a counterattack nor a defense that could stop it, except by Brahmadanda, a stick also created by Brahma. The Brahmastra never missed its mark and had to be used with very specific intent against an individual enemy or army, as the target would face complete annihilation.It could only be used once in a day. The user would have to display immense amounts of mental concentration. According to ancient Sanskrit writings, the Brahmastra is invoked by a key phrase or invocation that is bestowed upon the user when given this weapon. Through this invocation the user can call upon the weapon and use it via a medium against his adversary,The target, when hit by Brahmastra, would be utterly destroyed. Brahma had created a weapon even more powerful than the Brahmastra, called the Brahmashira. The Brahmashira was never used in war, as it had four times more power than the Brahmastra, i.e. Fourth power square, as the name suggests, since Brahma has Four Heads. Only Bhishma, Arjuna, Ashwatthama, Drona and Karna possessed the knowledge to summon the Brahmashira. However, Ashwatthama possessed the knowledge only to summon and not retract it.
Putting religion aside, is this weapon actually possible?. As we know that every nuclear weapon need some code to activate it and without the weapon is just a dead weight, same thing exist in brahmastra. Secondly the role of brahmadanda, its pretty much existent in today's nuclear weapon where you can destroy nuclear missile in mid air without harming anyone. Thirdly, brahmastra can strike on a specific designated target the same thing which can be seen on today's heat seeking missile(but pretty useless if you hide your body heat). So if the brahmastra was possible(within 100 years, and hoping discovering of Tesla becoming official such weapon can be possible), was it ever used?
As per many ancient astronaut theorist it is believed that such thing was used on Harappa and Mohan Jo Daro leading to its weird and still unknown way of collapse.Weird radioactive reading found on the site lead to the belief of the concept(even though not officially reported).
(There are many debunks available in the internet and we are personally not endorsing the theory to be true but still its a conception accepted by many experts)
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ancientatomicwar/esp_ancient_atomic_07.htm
Its not just Brahmastra, there are other scientific things/practices and advanced weaponry which can also be found in our holy books. So the only question that remains is who made it. If our ancestors didn't made it on their own(or discovered it on the knowledge available without taking any sort of help) then who made it or introduce it to them?
http://blog.world-mysteries.com/science/ancient-weapons-of-mass-destruction-and-the-mahabharata/
Still think Sanatan Dharma based on fairy tales?

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'Mahabharat- Different Versions -Perspectives' - Page 48

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